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The Dark Knight Rises - Page 24

post #691 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post


If I take my godfather comparison as an example, we can understand each kill Michael is responible for, but we can also see that the power of killing people corrupts him to a point that he cant resist using this power.

His last kill is the breaking point, we can see that for Michael there is no other way, but we also feel sorry for the victim and wish that he would given a second chance. But thats Michaels step into the dark side.

For Harvey Dent he go beserk to quickly at the bad guys, and to unmotivated against Gordon. We the audience doesnt feel the characters thougts and emotions. For us Dent is just a transportation to Two Face. He snaps because the comics says he must snap, not because the story of the movie allows it.

I'm not sure your comparisons are valid. Michael was born into a corrupt family and became heir to lead a major crime family. His killing was business, even that of his brother. Dent was good and fought for good within a corrupt world and organization (the police dept). Michael's tragedies were a part of his life. Dent's were not so when he "lost his love" it sent him over the edge. Michael was born on that edge. The set up here was Dent saying "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain".
post #692 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

I'm not sure your comparisons are valid. Michael was born into a corrupt family and became heir to lead a major crime family. His killing was business, even that of his brother. Dent was good and fought for good within a corrupt world and organization (the police dept). Michael's tragedies were a part of his life. Dent's were not so when he "lost his love" it sent him over the edge. Michael was born on that edge. The set up here was Dent saying "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain".

But Michael started as a good guy that didnt want to lead a major crime family. He basicly got sucked in. But the audience understand every action he makes.

For Dent, he goes after Gordon a little to quick.
post #693 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post


If I take my godfather comparison as an example, we can understand each kill Michael is responible for, but we can also see that the power of killing people corrupts him to a point that he cant resist using this power.

His last kill is the breaking point, we can see that for Michael there is no other way, but we also feel sorry for the victim and wish that he would given a second chance. But thats Michaels step into the dark side.

For Harvey Dent he go beserk to quickly at the bad guys, and to unmotivated against Gordon. We the audience doesnt feel the characters thougts and emotions. For us Dent is just a transportation to Two Face. He snaps because the comics says he must snap, not because the story of the movie allows it.

He goes for Gordon ( correct me if im wrong here ) because he didn't like the idea of the prisoners locked in the police department believing that the police officers are corrupt which at the end he was right they took Harvey and Rachel. Another thing Rachel Dawes said yes that she would marry him before her death that can drive a man to the edge losing a loved one plus its easy to blame Gordon as it was his officers that were involved. He wanted Gordon to feel his pain.
post #694 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by franin View Post

he goes for gordon ( correct me if im wrong here ) because he didn't like the idea of the prisoners locked in the police department believing that the police officers are corrupt which at the end he was right they took harvey and rachel. Another thing rachel dawes said yes that she would marry him before her death that can drive a man to the edge losing a loved one plus its easy to blame gordon as it was his officers that were involved. He wanted gordon to feel his pain.

+1
post #695 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

But Michael started as a good guy that didnt want to lead a major crime family. He basicly got sucked in. But the audience understand every action he makes.

For Dent, he goes after Gordon a little to quick.

It doesn't change the fact that Michael was born into a crime family and tragedy was already a part of his life. Michael was good but as you said, was sucked into a different life. Dent did as well but the circumstances of each are very different. Dent spent his life fighting corruption and it was that very corruption (within the police department) that took what he loved. In many respects, that love was what he was fighting for but with it gone, what was there left to fight for? Vengeance then made him corruptions ally.
post #696 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Vengeance then made him corruptions ally.

Hence the hospital scene with the Joker if I'm correct.
post #697 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

It doesn't change the fact that Michael was born into a crime family and tragedy was already a part of his life. Michael was good but as you said, was sucked into a different life. Dent did as well but the circumstances of each are very different. Dent spent his life fighting corruption and it was that very corruption (within the police department) that took what he loved. In many respects, that love was what he was fighting for but with it gone, what was there left to fight for? Vengeance then made him corruptions ally.

When dent became 2 face i was actually sympathetic to him i was happy for him going after the bad guys ( corrupt cops included ) but i knew he reached insanity when he was taking a chance with Jim Gordon boy.
post #698 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

He goes for Gordon ( correct me if im wrong here ) because he didn't like the idea of the prisoners locked in the police department believing that the police officers are corrupt which at the end he was right they took Harvey and Rachel. Another thing Rachel Dawes said yes that she would marry him before her death that can drive a man to the edge losing a loved one plus its easy to blame Gordon as it was his officers that were involved. He wanted Gordon to feel his pain.

I agree. Dent had seen his life destroyed in the blink of an eye and it was easy to blame Gordon and the cops for his misfortune and set himself on a path of revenge. Thus, I can't understand the quibbles over the coda to what most regard as one of the very best films ever made. I mean no disrespect by this because, God knows, movies give rise to a lot of disagreement.
post #699 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

...movies give rise to a lot of disagreement.

No they don't.
post #700 of 1595
I've always said TDK truly got shafted awards wise much for the reasons that we're discussing right now. And this is why there is so much anticipation for TDKR, on the assumption that it will be handled with the same level of skill. I'm not expecting a duplicate result so to speak as that is extremely difficult to do but I am looking for consistency. I walked out of TDK mentally exhausted and I'd like the same from TDKR.
post #701 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

No they don't.

ROFL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

I've always said TDK truly got shafted awards wise much for the reasons that we're discussing right now. And this is why there is so much anticipation for TDKR, on the assumption that it will be handled with the same level of skill. I'm not expecting a duplicate result so to speak as that is extremely difficult to do but I am looking for consistency. I walked out of TDK mentally exhausted and I'd like the same from TDKR.

Agreed. According to more than 700,000 IMDb voters The Dark Knight is the 8th best movie ever made and according to Rotten Tomatoes it was liked by 96 percent of responding viewers and 94 percent of the critics. To say the least, those are high marks. I have high hopes for The Dark Knight Rises but its predecessor set a high standard indeed.
post #702 of 1595
A high standard indeed as well as The Avengers.
post #703 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Agreed. According to more than 700,000 IMDb voters The Dark Knight is the 8th best movie ever made and.

Not so strange, since so many people saw it. More people can vote.

A movie that doesnt even have 700,000 viewers, may be better but cant compete on imdb.
post #704 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Not so strange, since so many people saw it. More people can vote.

A movie that doesnt even have 700,000 viewers, may be better but cant compete on imdb.

It is generally accepted among pollsters that the larger the universe of any poll, the more accurate the poll results are likely to be. Given that my own assessment, and that of what appears to be a plurality of the posters here loved the film, I am inclined to accept the IMDb's result as bring an accurate reflection of the opinion of the moviegoing public. That said, IMDb rankings are not always accurate. They are often too high shortly after a movie is released and the sample size is small. In fact a small sample size is always a red flag to me and an indication that the average vote is too high not too low. With respect to a film like The Dark Knight, though, which has attracted a huge number of votes over the course of four years, it's pretty hard to credibly argue that the results don't reflect the film's greatness, or at least it seems so to me.
post #705 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

With respect to a film like The Dark Knight, though, which has attracted a huge number of votes over the course of four years, it's pretty hard to credibly argue that the results don't reflect the film's greatness, or at least it seems so to me.

I always judge a films greatness from my subjective perspective. But how many of the votes did it get the first year of release?
post #706 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I always judge a films greatness from my subjective perspective. But how many of the votes did it get the first year of release?

At the end of the day a persons own opinion is all that matters. Either you like it or you don't. And debating the reasons either way can be just as fun as discussing common likes with a fellow moviegoer. I'm not sure how producers, directors, writers and actors feel but $1B in ticket sales would be a pretty good indicator of "quality and likeability" vs. an academy award.
post #707 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I always judge a films greatness from my subjective perspective. But how many of the votes did it get the first year of release?

I couldn't agree more! My point was merely that the IMDb's results for The Dark Knight closely tracked my own high opinion of the film. God knows, there are many other highly ranked films in the IBDb's Top 250 list that I rank considerably lower than IMDb voters have. The various Lord of the Rings and Star Wars films come to mind. In summary, we agree that each viewer must make up his own mind about the quality of any film. Period. Paragraph. End of report.
post #708 of 1595
Don't you mean *end credits* LOL!
post #709 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Don't you mean *end credits* LOL!

Yep, fade to black and roll credits.
post #710 of 1595
*fade in to AVS'ers sitting in a diner eating pita's saying nothing* then *fade to black*
post #711 of 1595
Just popping in for an after credit scene.
post #712 of 1595
Just want you guys to know you make long drawn out work days tolerable.
post #713 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Just want you guys to know you make long drawn out work days tolerable.

Thanks. Don't know exactly how you, the Swede, and I got on this road but it was certainly fun.
post #714 of 1595
post #715 of 1595
It almost has to be a joke, right?
post #716 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

It almost has to be a joke, right?

If you plan on cashing in on Bale, you wouldnt want to do it years after the last Batman film.
post #717 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

It almost has to be a joke, right?

If it is, I'm not getting it.....
post #718 of 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

If you plan on cashing in on Bale, you wouldnt want to do it years after the last Batman film.

I agree. But, and I truly hate to sound this way but, is anyone really this invested in Christian Bale? And IMO he does a great job but playing Bruce Wayne/Batman but he's not what William Shatner is to Captain Kirk. Simply not enough history behind if for starters. This is such an odd play, almost turns you off to him so to speak.
post #719 of 1595
"Newsies would thrive as a huge hit on video thanks to an army of Baleheads and Christian's well-orchestrated internet marketing campaigns. It was the beginning of Christian's rule over the internet."

I.......must have REALLY been enjoying the college experience during this time because I remember very.....none of it.
post #720 of 1595
This is just one more tell all book by a disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind and a desire for a quick buck. I am no particular fan of Christian Bale as a human being but this book would be the last place I would look for confirmation that he is a bad guy. My literary tastes are not high, to say the least, but they are high enough to have made my decision to avoid this dreck an easy one.
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