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TH Design - Hitting excursion - What to do?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I've been trying out Soho's easy TH spreadsheet with a TD10S to see what I can get. It seems really easy until I get to the point of determining max excursion and then I always seem to go over with very little watts.

I attach my results to date. My question is - What do I need to change to get it right? Very much an amateur with horn design so I may be missing the obvious

Also, the compression ratio is 1.77:1 and I want to take this higher if possible.

Thanks in advance
LL
post #2 of 13
Don't worry about how much power it takes to hit xmax, instead look at how much SPL you are getting at xmax. In this case it is ~115dB in the mid 30s. That isn't to bad for a single 10" driver.

This is ~6dB over what you could get in a vented sub. It's a bit large though, but that is the drivers fault, not yours. You could raise the "m" some to raise the compression a little, and it would also shrink the horn some at the same time. You will stay around the same output level though, as the gains from the compression boost, are null'ed by the shrinking horn area. Once you go over ~2.2 with this driver the response will start to get bumpy.
post #3 of 13
A hundred watts with this box will get you 118db. Not to shabby. And you are within the 12mm x max at 100 watts.

Use the input screen power input area. Input the wattage and then calculate. Look at the driver excursion at different power levels. It's amazing how little increase in SPL is gained from even five times the power input.

Mark
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks Soho & Mark for the advice. I have to agree on 115dB and better(!) being pretty stellar for 100watts. I've tweaked the compression ratio and I'm still not getting much less than 400L (14 cu ft) for the horn so I don't think this one is going to fly for me. I'm learning more about designing horns and that was the real benefit of this!
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

It's a bit large though, but that is the drivers fault...

Why do you say that? Or can you present a driver that allows a smaller TH or more output for the same volume?
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBentz View Post

Why do you say that? Or can you present a driver that allows a smaller TH or more output for the same volume?

I say that because horn size per it's bandwidth is completely a byproduct of it's parameters. Also, 400l is a descent sized enclosure before you add any wood. I would expect more than that out of that much space at 30Hz.

There are plenty of drivers that will give you more output in that bandwidth, and fall under that sized enclosure. ~30Hz low corner in less than 400l raw? Any driver used by DSL will do it as a single, I can say without even looking. From the 8" on up, well under 400l raw.

If you just went by cost, a single Anarchy can hit that SPL in ~400l too. You could get there with two drivers in half the horn space, less Sd, and still come in cheaper.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Out of curiousity I did a "what If I had a TD10H instead of the S". I would be able to achieve the same SPL in 250L / 9 cu ft. Although the compression ratio is 3.64:1, it seems OK with that. It's a very different driver
LL
post #8 of 13
That is the perfect example of what I mean.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

I've tweaked the compression ratio and I'm still not getting much less than 400L (14 cu ft) for the horn so I don't think this one is going to fly for me.

The way the SS is set up it appears one has to do a bit of 'Tom Foolery' to get the 'most from the least' from it within its limitations, but it yielded ~243 L net without losing any usable bottom end, so try this when wanting to shrink an automated alignment:

S1 = ~3:1 CR or 345/3 = 115 cm^2 for this driver
Make m = 0.708, auto EQ and use its other calculated values

If you're not happy with it, try smoothing it out by changing the tap points and of course you can shrink it more in the HRW by just reducing S4 if you initially use the three segment designer. At a glance, it looks like ~178 L net is ~ as low as you can go and still hit 115 dB/2pi, at least in a sim.

GM
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post

The way the SS is set up it appears one has to do a bit of 'Tom Foolery' to get the 'most from the least' from it within its limitations, but it yielded ~243 L net without losing any usable bottom end, so try this when wanting to shrink an automated alignment:

Come now, you just have to know how to work it. You seem to be coming along. A horn is a horn, right?

See how I did it in post #2, you don't have to give it all away.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks GM! I know I've a lot to learn on optimizing TH designs. Your tips really help (& BTW 180L is about as big as I can fit in my room! )

Soho, do you think you could have a " optimal smallest size lowest corner" button? Or should I simply choose a 3 segment design?
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

Thanks GM! I know I've a lot to learn on optimizing TH designs. Your tips really help (& BTW 180L is about as big as I can fit in my room! )

Soho, do you think you could have a " optimal smallest size lowest corner" button? Or should I simply choose a 3 segment design?

A 3 Section horn starts out even larger, so you would still have to alter it. GM was suggesting that it was easy to shrink a 3 Section horn even more by just changing S4. With a 4 Section you have to monkey with S3 & S5.

I could do a suggested "m" for minimal horn size, but it's not as helpful as you might first think, and once you start altering it for compression it kinda goes out the window really. It's pretty easy to do yourself. Just pick a higher "m," and then you just have to check/adjust the compression. If it is too high raise S1 in the wizard with S2 Variable on. If it is too low shrink S1. Save and check compression on the input screen, rinse repeat. Like I said before, you won't be able to pull more out of the package, but you can shrink the horn a bit with a very minimal FR trade off.

Sorry, I was a little obtuse in my first post. This is what I was suggesting you do, just not in so many words. You seemed to be having fun messing with it yourself, and I didn't want to spoil it by directly giving you all the answers. Just a nudge or two.
post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks Soho, I am having fun with this! I agree it's best to learn a little bit at a time. Starting to get a feel for what the results will be once I punch them into your spreadsheet so that can't be a bad thing
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