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1080p60 (1080p50) playback

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
Which BD players are capable of 1080p60/1080p50 (I will call it "FullHD") playback?

Obviously, there are no pressed BDs in this format, so it can only be a burned disc or a memory card:

* Recordable DVD ("AVCHD disc")
* Recordable BD
* Secure Digital memory card (for some Panasonic and JVC players, maybe some other players accept memory cards as well).

Where FullHD would come from? Presently, the only source of getting FullHD without rendering it in some video editing application is Panasonic "600" and "700" camcorder families, and some Sanyo camcorders. Video is in AVC format at bitrates of 24 Mbit/s (Sanyo) or 28 Mbit/s (Panasonic).

Burned to DVD to create an AVCHD disc such a video can be played in certain BD players.

If someone of you would like to test 1080p60 on your BD player, I can upload an ISO of an AVCHD disc with 1080p60 footage.

UPDATE 2010-12-02: See post #9 below for the ISO file and instructions: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19579825

I will start the list, which I will update as comments are added to the thread.

--- 1080p60 ---

Panasonic DMP-BD80(K) -- hiccup-free playback from an SD card; when playing back from a DVD-R hiccups occur at bitrates higher than 18-20 Mbit/s. That is, native video from Panasonic camcorders will likely stutter when played from a disc.

UPDATE 2010-12-03: Pioneer BDP-51FD / Elite BDP-05FD -- plays 1080p60 @ 27.5 Mbit/s from a regular DVD+R disc without hiccups. Thanks, flint350: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1294889

UPDATE 2010-12-03: OPPO BDP-83: plays regular 1080i AVCHD, clips encoded as 1080p60 stutter even at 13 Mbit/s, both from DVD and USB media.
OPPO BDP-93: plays 1080p60 @ 27.5 Mbit/s without hiccups from both DVD and USB media. Thanks, wmcclain.
post #2 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post


If someone of you would like to test 1080p60 on your BD player, I can upload an ISO of an AVCHD disc with 1080p60 footage.

I would like to see that.

-Bill
post #3 of 58
I got Pana DMP-BD45 connected to pana new pana pdp plasma. Tried to put sd card with 1080p contents out from my pana tm700 to the dedicated slot of the player and nothing happend. I tried to search manually through TV menue system and cant detect anything.
post #4 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

I got Pana DMP-BD45 connected to pana new pana pdp plasma. Tried to put sd card with 1080p contents out from my pana tm700 to the dedicated slot of the player and nothing happend. I tried to search manually through TV menue system and cant detect anything.

The BD80 says "SD" on the LCD screen, then it shows the content of the card with clip list, and starts playing the first clip in a thumbnail. When played in full screen, it shows momentarily "AVCHD" in the right upper corner.

Too bad the 45 cannot play 60p. I've heard it plays pretty much everyting else including 720p30, despite that it is not in BD/AVCHD spec.

wmcclain, I will prepare the disc image with 1080p60 footage at various bitrates.
post #5 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

The BD80 says "SD" on the LCD screen, then it shows the content of the card with clip list, and starts playing the first clip in a thumbnail. When played in full screen, it shows momentarily "AVCHD" in the right upper corner.

Too bad the 45 cannot play 60p. I've heard it plays pretty much everyting else including 720p30, despite that it is not in BD/AVCHD s.

--------------------------
Do those 28Mbs 1080p files on SD play fine on BD80 ? (as good at least as direct output from the camcorder )
post #6 of 58
I'm interested in testing 1080p60 and 1080p50 AVCHD on DVD.

It'd be better to include some 1080p24 and/or 1080i60 clips (clips within the BD spec) to screen playability initially for AVCHD as not all players support it. Otherwise if a BDP doesn't play 1080p60 AVCHD we don't know if it's because it simply can't play AVCHD even with clips in the spec.
post #7 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

Do those 28Mbs 1080p files on SD play fine on BD80 ? (as good at least as direct output from the camcorder )

They play absolutely fine from a card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I'm interested in testing 1080p60 and 1080p50 AVCHD on DVD.

I am afraid I will not be able to help with 50p files. Also, I am not sure that combining 60Hz and 50Hz clips on the same disc is allowed.
post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

They play absolutely fine from a card.
I am afraid I will not be able to help with 50p files. .

-------------------
Found BDP80 and 85 for around the same price 200 and 230 Euros. Is 85 an upgrade of 80 or is it better to stick to 80 model thank for eventual help.
post #9 of 58
Thread Starter 
Here is the ISO file to test AVCHD and 1080p60 capability of your Blu-ray player: http://uploading.com/files/6a7db5fm/60p.iso/

Use ImgBurn or any other DVD burning utility to burn this ISO file onto a DVD recordable disc (NOT onto Blu-ray recordable!). This will make what is known as "AVCHD disc".

Play this disc in your Blu-ray player and report back the results. Please, report your player make and model, firmware revision and any issues you notice.

The ISO file contains AVCHD structure with 5 video clips. There is no menu, playback should start right away. There are info cards before each clip except for the last one, which is the original clip from then my HDC-TM700:

1) 1920x1080/29.97i, High@L4.0, encoded with Sony AVC. Set to 16 Mbit/s, actual overall bit rate: 13.6 Mbps.
2) 1920x1080/59.94p, High@L4.2, encoded with Sony AVC. Set to 16 Mbit/s, actual overall bit rate: 13.0 Mbps.
3) 1920x1080/59.94p, High@L4.2, encoded with Sony AVC. Set to 18 Mbit/s, actual overall bit rate: 14.6 Mbps.
4) 1920x1080/59.94p, High@L4.2, encoded with Sony AVC. Set to 20 Mbit/s, actual overall bit rate: 16.2 Mbps.
5) 1920x1080/59.94p, High@L4.2, original file from the HDC-TM700. Overall bit rate: 27.3 Mbps.

The first clip is your regular interlaced AVCHD video at reasonable 13 Mbit/s. This should play on any BD player with "AVCHD" mark. The next three clips are 1080p60 clips rendered from Sony Vegas using Sony AVC encoder. The last clip is the original file from the camcorder, unchanged.

The ISO image has been mastered with MultiAVCHD using "AVCHD Strict" profile, and plays on my Panasonic DMP-BD80K Blu-ray player. The last, original, clip plays but stutters: the disc is not spinning fast enough.

So, enjoy and post back the results.
post #10 of 58
I think it depends on the dvd. My Pio Elite 23FD bluray player connected to my Pio Kuro 151FD plasma can play 1080p/50 when certain dvd's are played. I personally think 1080p/50 looks better than 1080p/60.

The MotoGP 2005 Season Review played 1080p/50 on my display.

http://www.amazon.com/MotoGP-2004-Re.../dp/B0006SSQ84
post #11 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

I think it depends on the dvd. My Pio Elite 23FD bluray player connected to my Pio Kuro 151FD plasma can play 1080p/50 when certain dvd's are played. I personally think 1080p/50 looks better than 1080p/60.

The MotoGP 2005 Season Review played 1080p/50 on my display.

http://www.amazon.com/MotoGP-2004-Re.../dp/B0006SSQ84

In what country do you live, what is the "native" scanning rate of your player and TV: 50Hz or 60Hz? Where did you get 1080p50 content? The link you posted goes to a DVD, which is not 50p. DVDs cannot be 50p or 60p.

If your player can handle 60 Hz content, please download the ISO file I posted, burn it onto a DVD and test. Thanks.
post #12 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

In what country do you live, what is the "native" scanning rate of your player and TV: 50Hz or 60Hz? Where did you get 1080p50 content? The link you posted goes to a DVD, which is not 50p. DVDs cannot be 50p or 60p.

If your player can handle 60 Hz content, please download the ISO file I posted, burn it onto a DVD and test. Thanks.

I live in the U.S.. I haven't watched the dvd in a few months, I need to watch it again, but I need to correct myself, it could have been encoded as 1080/50i or it was 1080p/50. It was one of the other, so I'll watch it again in a bit. When it comes to the native scanning rate of my bd player and tv I don't know. That dvd is from Duke Video which is from Britain. bd players like the Oppo's and some of the Pioneer's can upconvert and output dvd's to different resolutions.

My tv is the Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD
My bd player is the Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD

This link below explains how dvd's and blurays in the UK use 1080i/50 EIV format encodes rather than 1080p/24.

1080p/60 '24fps' v. 1080p/50 http://www.avforums.com/forums/movie...080p-50-a.html
post #13 of 58
Thread Starter 
Oppopioneer, this thread is not about 1080p60 / 1080p50 output, it is about 1080p60 / 1080p50 content, which is a big difference. All BD players output 1080p60 / 1080p50 (except for maybe some early models that output 1080i).

The purpose of this thread is to check playability of AVCHD and 1080p60 / 1080p50 content. If you want to participate then download the ISO file, burn it onto a DVD and report back.
post #14 of 58
sorry, my bad, I misunderstood the topic. I might try to download it later on when I get a chance and report back with the results.
post #15 of 58
Thread Starter 
Pioneer BDP-51FD / Elite BDP-05FD can play 1080p60 @ 27.5 Mbit/s from a regular DVD+R disc. Thanks, flint350: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1294889
post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Here is the ISO file to test AVCHD and 1080p60 capability of your Blu-ray player: http://uploading.com/files/6a7db5fm/60p.iso/

Use ImgBurn or any other DVD burning utility to burn this ISO file onto a DVD recordable disc (NOT onto Blu-ray recordable!). This will make what is known as "AVCHD disc".

Play this disc in your Blu-ray player and report back the results. Please, report your player make and model, firmware revision and any issues you notice..

OPPO Digital, BDP-93, firmware 1108, disk played very smooth and results are as expected.
post #17 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanping09 View Post

OPPO Digital, BDP-93, firmware 1108, disk played very smooth and results are as expected.

Thanks! Could you also name the media you have used? -R or +R, and the manufacturer?
post #18 of 58
I can confirm that all 5 titles play without problems on the OPPO BDP-93. I used Verbatim DVD+RW, media id MKM/A02.

No go on the BDP-83.

I keep looking for faces in the trees. Is this a Blair Witch thing?

-Bill
post #19 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
I can confirm that all 5 titles play without problems on the OPPO BDP-93. I used Verbatim DVD+RW, media id MKM/A02.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
No go on the BDP-83.
Even the very first clip? It is regular AVCHD, 1080i @ 13 Mbit/s. This is strange.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
I keep looking for faces in the trees. Is this a Blair Witch thing?
This was the clip with the highest bitrate I had. Other 1080p60 videos that I shot have lower bitrate because of fewer details in the picture. This shot with lots of moving branches and leaves is very stressful for the codec. Looks great, don't you think? And this is a $750 consumer cam.
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
Thanks.
Even the very first clip? It is regular AVCHD, 1080i @ 13 Mbit/s. This is strange.
I did get a glimpse of the first chapter but thought it dropped out. I'll try again. I'll also copy the whole thing to USB stick to see if that makes a difference.

-Bill
post #21 of 58
You are correct. Title 1 plays correctly on the OPPO BDP-83, while 2 through 5 stutter. All play correctly on the BDP-93.

I see the same results using disc and USB stick on both players.

For anyone testing this on OPPO players: the remote GOTO button is handy for jumping between the clips.

-Bill
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
Pioneer BDP-51FD / Elite BDP-05FD can play 1080p60 @ 27.5 Mbit/s from a regular DVD+R disc. Thanks, flint350: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1294889
Is this a average speed for a bd player ? Which players offer the best performance with regards to this specific testing?

Also, have any of you tested the Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bd player? That's the player I have.
post #23 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

Is this a average speed for a bd player ?

This is a normal speed for a BD player when played proper BDMV video from BD media. In case of this test, media is DVD, and video is non-standard 1080p60. Many players cannot play it, either because they do not support 1080p60 (it is not BD-legal) or because they have not enough throughput while playing from a DVD.
post #24 of 58
Pioneer BDP-230 (fw 1.69a) plays all clips on DVD-RW: recognises it as DVD-RW AVCHD.

Clip 1: recognises source as 1080i60 and video is fine with 1080i60 or 1080p60 output. Audio is fine (using analogue out).
Clips 2-5: displays source incorrectly as 1080p24 and can only output video (smooth) with 1080p set as output resolution (changeable on the fly with remote). Audio is choppy. Bitrate display appears correct for the given bitrates.
post #25 of 58
Which bd player overall performs the best in every test thrown it's way and is there a manufacturer that consistently has more player's in it's lineup that perform better than other manufacturers?
post #26 of 58
Is it possible to test these files using a bd-r instead of a dvd-r? Would it make a difference in the ability to playback the last file?
post #27 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by powjunky View Post

Is it possible to test these files using a bd-r instead of a dvd-r? Would it make a difference in the ability to playback the last file?

The disc image is made for "AVCHD" profile, not for "BD". Some less restrictive players will play it from BD media, but others won't. I don't want you do lose an expensive disc. If you like, I can author a similar image using BD profile.
post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

The disc image is made for "AVCHD" profile, not for "BD". Some less restrictive players will play it from BD media, but others won't. I don't want you do lose an expensive disc. If you like, I can author a similar image using BD profile.

No, but thanks. I just wondered if a BD-r would play the last file better. I was able to play files 1-4 fine on the dvd, but the last file stuttered. By the way, I also posted in the panny 700 forum about my trouble playing the files from SD card. Wondered where I went wrong. I copied the files in the folder structure you suggested for SD card, but only got blank thumbnails and couldn't get anything to play. My card is an SD, not an SDHC. Not sure if that matters.

Here is the link to that post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19599709
post #29 of 58
Thread Starter 
Pioneer BDP-320 has been reported to support 1080p60 playback just fine: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=23
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You are correct. Title 1 plays correctly on the OPPO BDP-83, while 2 through 5 stutter. All play correctly on the BDP-93.

I see the same results using disc and USB stick on both players.

For anyone testing this on OPPO players: the remote GOTO button is handy for jumping between the clips.

-Bill

Thank you very much. This is very significant news. Together with Netflix (and Blockbuster) streaming, this would be the most important reason for me to upgrade from BDP-83.

Is there a screens shot of the BDP-93 UI that is used to navigate videos stored on external USB hard drive? How comfortable is it to navigate through several hundred videos in multiple folders?
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