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The "Official" NAD T 747 Owner's Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 1655
I am so picky about my sound quality, I use it even for watching Jeopardy

So this HDMI pass through feature will be useless for me.
post #152 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I am so picky about my sound quality, I use it even for watching Jeopardy

So this HDMI pass through feature will be useless for me.

Same here. I used to have mine setup with a bypass for other family members (simplicity) but then they started to complain that the dialog wasn't as clear so I just set everything up as a "one button" push turns everything on & switches to satellite with a menu buttons for DVD, media server, etc. It solves all the handshake issues, sounds better, and simplifies electronic life in general. It probably does cost me $10 a year in electricity but then again this hobby has never been cheap.

Having said that, I can also appreciated different viewing habits and the desire not to waste a ton of energy just to do a quick weather check, or watch a few minutes of CNN (or Fox for the more fair & unbalanced forum members). I know people with multiple mono-amps around the room & turning everything on can be a pain. I think pass-through is a nice feature but it is pretty far down my list of requisites. I haven't found a receiver/processor yet that has everything on my list and the $$ thing complicates it even more. You get this but you give up that and on & on.
post #153 of 1655
While waiting for my T747 to arrive, I've started to think about how to integrate it into my Harmony remote control setup, and added the device to my Harmony configuration to see what commands it provides.

According to the manual, on the NAD remote, numeric buttons 1-6 provide direct access to sources 1-6, but buttons 7-10 do other things. How do you get to sources 7-10?
post #154 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

While waiting for my T747 to arrive, I've started to think about how to integrate it into my Harmony remote control setup, and added the device to my Harmony configuration to see what commands it provides.

According to the manual, on the NAD remote, numeric buttons 1-6 provide direct access to sources 1-6, but buttons 7-10 do other things. How do you get to sources 7-10?

Cool. You bought one too. Mine is supposed to arrive on Wednesday. Currently I have a T744 hooked up in that room temporarily. My permanent fixture is a HK 745 which I hope to sell on I setup the T747 and am happy. One thing i liked about the hk 745 is that it came with a hk branded harmony remote. I liked the remote but lately I have some problem programming it. I am hoping not to buy another harmony remote but instead use the NAD htr 3 remote.

Looking forward to your feedback on the 747.
post #155 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post
While waiting for my T747 to arrive, I've started to think about how to integrate it into my Harmony remote control setup, and added the device to my Harmony configuration to see what commands it provides.

According to the manual, on the NAD remote, numeric buttons 1-6 provide direct access to sources 1-6, but buttons 7-10 do other things. How do you get to sources 7-10?
Not sure what "other things they do" as I haven't looked at the manual. I do know that when I press 7 or 8 on the NAD remote the 474 switches to the 7 or 8 source (unless that source is disabled in the menu). Perhaps the manual is wrong or refers to DVD or Cable use. I don't use a Harmony remote (Theater Master) so I can't comment on what they might provide.
post #156 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty913 View Post

Having said that, I can also appreciated different viewing habits and the desire not to waste a ton of energy just to do a quick weather check, or watch a few minutes of CNN (or Fox for the more fair & unbalanced forum members). I know people with multiple mono-amps around the room & turning everything on can be a pain. I think pass-through is a nice feature but it is pretty far down my list of requisites. I haven't found a receiver/processor yet that has everything on my list and the $$ thing complicates it even more. You get this but you give up that and on & on.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I totally concur with this last sentiment, Marty. When I first started seriously searching, I thought I would find THE ONE within a few weeks, but it's been a very long, difficult search to narrow it down to 2, neither of which I'm 100% sold on.

I had another question about the connections. I'm planning to hook up my computer through the receiver. It has DVI for video out and a 1/8 jack for audio out. Just wondering if anyone else has the same setup and has recommendations for the best way to set this up for maximum quality. I was thinking of getting a DVI to HDMI cable, but it sounds like you can't combine HDMI video with analog audio on the T747. Should I just go DVI>Component and 1/8>RCA? Does anyone know if there's an integrated cable for this purpose or if there's a better way to do this?
post #157 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by menocu View Post

Thanks for everyone's responses. I totally concur with this last sentiment, Marty. When I first started seriously searching, I thought I would find THE ONE within a few weeks, but it's been a very long, difficult search to narrow it down to 2, neither of which I'm 100% sold on.

I had another question about the connections. I'm planning to hook up my computer through the receiver. It has DVI for video out and a 1/8 jack for audio out. Just wondering if anyone else has the same setup and has recommendations for the best way to set this up for maximum quality. I was thinking of getting a DVI to HDMI cable, but it sounds like you can't combine HDMI video with analog audio on the T747. Should I just go DVI>Component and 1/8>RCA? Does anyone know if there's an integrated cable for this purpose or if there's a better way to do this?

What kind of computer do you have? You should be able to find a pretty low end graphics card with HDMI out now a days. Also, for audio, I would like something digital coming out so the DACs in the AVR are used instead of the computer. I think the NAD can still use HDMI for video and analog for audio. Not sure.
post #158 of 1655
I have already ordered the T747 and it is on its way and I already have a concern.

Check out the article from Home Theater Magazine. Check out the last paragraph there.

Apparently, the 747 does not pass below black and above white information. So, if I have blacker than black and whiter than white turned on in both PS3 and in my projector, am I going to have missing video information. Can this be bypassed at all for bluray content?
post #159 of 1655
As mentioned earlier by me, I bought a used NAD T744 from a friend for just $150. It comes with a decent learning remote called HTR 2. I assumed that the successor HTR 3 comes with the T747. Nope. It is a non-learning basic remote called AVR 3. WTF. I am paying a lot more for the receiver and getting a non-learning remote. I have a HK TC30 that is pretty good (Harmony based) but I will be selling that along with the HK AVR 745 once I setup the T747. Looks like I will have to look for a good universal remote.
post #160 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I have already ordered the T747 and it is on its way and I already have a concern.

Check out the article from Home Theater Magazine. Check out the last paragraph there.

Apparently, the 747 does not pass below black and above white information. So, if I have blacker than black and whiter than white turned on in both PS3 and in my projector, am I going to have missing video information. Can this be bypassed at all for bluray content?

I find it hard to reconcile his glowing accounts of video/audio playback on page 2 with his test bench results on page 5 that fall a tad short of what he considers a passing grade in clipping tests. If page 5 results are significant, how come they didn't affect his notable enjoyment of source content on page 2?

I think the reality is that his bench tests don't make any difference in the real world.

Dana
post #161 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

As mentioned earlier by me, I bought a used NAD T744 from a friend for just $150. It comes with a decent learning remote called HTR 2. I assumed that the successor HTR 3 comes with the T747. Nope. It is a non-learning basic remote called AVR 3. WTF. I am paying a lot more for the receiver and getting a non-learning remote. I have a HK TC30 that is pretty good (Harmony based) but I will be selling that along with the HK AVR 745 once I setup the T747. Looks like I will have to look for a good universal remote.

It looks as if the NAD HTRM Remote Control is the latest and greatest. More info here.

Dana
post #162 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I have already ordered the T747 and it is on its way and I already have a concern.

Check out the article from Home Theater Magazine. Check out the last paragraph there.

Apparently, the 747 does not pass below black and above white information. So, if I have blacker than black and whiter than white turned on in both PS3 and in my projector, am I going to have missing video information. Can this be bypassed at all for bluray content?

I suppose in very rare situations that's possible. The NAD comes within 1 point (234,17) and that would only be if the source actually goes whiter or blacker. Remember that by definition, whiter-than-white occurs when the video signal goes "above normal". I doubt you will see it in the source, or notice the lack of it if it is there.
post #163 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

It looks as if the NAD HTRM Remote Control is the latest and greatest. More info here.

Dana

What I meant was that if HTR2 came bundled with the T744, I would have expected either the HTR2 or HTR3 to be bundled with T747, instead it is the cheaper AVR3. Oh well. I will have to get some other solution.
post #164 of 1655
i want to buy a T747 and have a 5.1 setup in my living hall and i want to use a pair of stereo speaker in another room ( bedroom ) which is 18 meters away .

i understand i'll have to buy speaker cables ( 18-20 meters long ) to connect the stereo speakers.

I have a few questions....

1. Does the T 747 has a mode where in it goes to sleep mode when not in use and comes on by itself when it receives a signal ? ( something like how a sub-woofer works )

2. Is there a way to control T747's on/off switch, volume control, etc while sitting in my bedroom from where the T 747 is not in my clear sight ?

What do i need to buy/install to make the above possible ?

Thanks
post #165 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

i want to buy a T747 and have a 5.1 setup in my living hall and i want to use a pair of stereo speaker in another room ( bedroom ) which is 18 meters away .

i understand i'll have to buy speaker cables ( 18-20 meters long ) to connect the stereo speakers.

I have a few questions....

1. Does the T 747 has a mode where in it goes to sleep mode when not in use and comes on by itself when it receives a signal ? ( something like how a sub-woofer works )

2. Is there a way to control T747's on/off switch, volume control, etc while sitting in my bedroom from where the T 747 is not in my clear sight ?

What do i need to buy/install to make the above possible ?

Thanks

1. Yes, the 747 has a sleep mode and the setting is accessible/changeable from the remote (or menu system).

2. No, the 747 comes with two remotes and both are IR type (line of sight). The smaller Zone-2 remote is designed to be used with an IR-repeater system, or with some type of IR to RF converter system. I have included a couple links for such devices but recommend you shop around. There are many solutions depending on whether you use the NAD remotes.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...263V10B8YNJRCM

http://www.amazon.com/Ramsey-RRW1AC-.../dp/B0002NRKWQ
post #166 of 1655
Does the T747 have a toroidal transformer? Just curious.
post #167 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Does the T747 have a toroidal transformer? Just curious.

No.

Dana
post #168 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty913 View Post

1. Yes, the 747 has a sleep mode and the setting is accessible/changeable from the remote (or menu system).

2. No, the 747 comes with two remotes and both are IR type (line of sight). The smaller Zone-2 remote is designed to be used with an IR-repeater system, or with some type of IR to RF converter system. I have included a couple links for such devices but recommend you shop around. There are many solutions depending on whether you use the NAD remotes.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...263V10B8YNJRCM

http://www.amazon.com/Ramsey-RRW1AC-.../dp/B0002NRKWQ

how is a IR-Repeater system different from a IR to RF converter system ? And which one should i got for ?

Thanks
post #169 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

What kind of computer do you have? You should be able to find a pretty low end graphics card with HDMI out now a days. Also, for audio, I would like something digital coming out so the DACs in the AVR are used instead of the computer. I think the NAD can still use HDMI for video and analog for audio. Not sure.

Okay, it looks like Marty cleared up the combining analog audio plus HDMI video in post #141- it sounds like it is possible, but digital audio + HDMI video is not.

I actually dug up a DVI>HDMI cable, I just need to buy a 3.5mm>RCA cable.

Another question about the T747: does the receiver itself have a noticeable hum or buzzing? I've read about NAD stuff humming, but that was mostly high end amps. I wasn't sure if that was present in other devices.

Similarly, does the Auto-Setup cause the speakers to hum? I've heard about noticeable humming with Audyssey setup in other brands.
post #170 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by menocu View Post

Okay, it looks like Marty cleared up the combining analog audio plus HDMI video in post #141- it sounds like it is possible, but digital audio + HDMI video is not.

I actually dug up a DVI>HDMI cable, I just need to buy a 3.5mm>RCA cable.

Another question about the T747: does the receiver itself have a noticeable hum or buzzing? I've read about NAD stuff humming, but that was mostly high end amps. I wasn't sure if that was present in other devices.

No buzzing here. (Except in my head; I have Tinnitus.)

Quote:
Similarly, does the Auto-Setup cause the speakers to hum? I've heard about noticeable humming with Audyssey setup in other brands.

The 747 doesn't use Audyssey but no hum with speakers either.

Dana
post #171 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

how is a IR-Repeater system different from a IR to RF converter system ? And which one should i got for ?

Thanks

It depends.

Native IR (infrared)is line of sight but not very powerful because of the low power in remote control batteries. A repeater gives you a boosted signal (still line of sight) that will travel a much greater distance. A repeater is often used when equipment is hidden in cabinets and behind doors because an IR signal can also be sent down a wire which avoids the line of sight issues. When done this way it is extremely dependable and in fact the wire can actually be plugged into the NAD.

RF (radio frequency) is not line of sight and freely floats around corners, through walls, etc. Unfortunately, since most equipment (NAD included) is not RF, the IR signal must be converted to RF - transmitted - and then converted back to IR. A bit more complicated but this is probably what you need. The only issues with RF is that like any radio signal it can be subject to interference from motors, microwaves, etc.

As for which brand, I can't tell you since I don't use one. It is rather simple technology and pretty cheap. Here's one that is a fairly well-known brand that has a description of what is does. There are others if you want to shop around.

http://www.smarthome.com/8045I/IR-to...433-MHz/p.aspx
post #172 of 1655
menocu,

I too read a few comments about NAD receivers humming a little although most were about the early versions of the 765/775 with the MDC cards. I forget now but it seems the AM100 card had some problems later fixed by the AM200.

Anyway, I can tell you that my T747 is absolutely "dead quiet".
post #173 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty913 View Post

It depends.

Native IR (infrared)is line of sight but not very powerful because of the low power in remote control batteries. A repeater gives you a boosted signal (still line of sight) that will travel a much greater distance. A repeater is often used when equipment is hidden in cabinets and behind doors because an IR signal can also be sent down a wire which avoids the line of sight issues. When done this way it is extremely dependable and in fact the wire can actually be plugged into the NAD.

RF (radio frequency) is not line of sight and freely floats around corners, through walls, etc. Unfortunately, since most equipment (NAD included) is not RF, the IR signal must be converted to RF - transmitted - and then converted back to IR. A bit more complicated but this is probably what you need. The only issues with RF is that like any radio signal it can be subject to interference from motors, microwaves, etc.

As for which brand, I can't tell you since I don't use one. It is rather simple technology and pretty cheap. Here's one that is a fairly well-known brand that has a description of what is does. There are others if you want to shop around.

http://www.smarthome.com/8045I/IR-to...433-MHz/p.aspx

marty,

- cheers to the explanation. i totally understand it. Would it be right to say that in my situation a "IR Repeater" would not work and i have to go for a "IR to RF converter system"....? Just to confirm...

- also the the link you provided as "this is probably what you need" is not opening. could you re-provide it. I saw the other one and it looks cool.

thanks
post #174 of 1655
My T747 is going to be delivered today by fedex ground. Yippie. I hope I get time tonight to play with it.
post #175 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

marty,

- cheers to the explanation. i totally understand it. Would it be right to say that in my situation a "IR Repeater" would not work and i have to go for a "IR to RF converter system"....? Just to confirm...

- also the the link you provided as "this is probably what you need" is not opening. could you re-provide it. I saw the other one and it looks cool.

thanks

An IR repeater may or may not work, it depends on distance, how many walls, etc. Also keep in mind that some IR repeaters can pickup up the signal and transmit it over a wire directly into the NAD Repeater Input Jack on the back of the receiver. The downside is that when you string your speaker wires, you also have to string the IR repeater wire. It actually is the best solution which is why custom installers always do it this way.

For the simplest solution the IR-to-RF route is the best way to go which is why I recommended it for you. You can read about the various approaches at www.smarthome.com or go to Amazon.com and search for the Terk Leapfrog system (about $30). They pretty much all work the same.

Sorry about the link, it works for me. Anyway, just go to the places I mentioned above and you will find a whole bunch of choices.
post #176 of 1655
I am going from a HK AVR 745 (2006 model) to the T747 based on my listening impressions from a T744 that I bought used for another room.

I just received the T747 today and here are my first impressions. I will be comparing both the HK 745 as well as the T744. I have not done any serious listening - that will come later.

Build quality: Decent. Worse than the T744, worse than the HK 745.
Remote: Pathetic. The buttons need to be pressed pretty hard and it looks very cheap.

Menu system: Ok. A little bit confusing since you have to press right to select a parameter to change. But that is a personal opinion.

Source Setup: Not good compared to HK AVR 745. In the 745, I can configured source 1 to be HDMI 1 audio and HDMI 1 video, source 2 to be optical 1 audio and HDMI 2 video. This worked out for my iMac since I use a MiniDVI to HDMI cable and a mini Toslink to Toslink cable. In the T747, I cannot use HDMI for video and optical/coax for audio. Yikes. I think someone mentioned this before but I did not pay attention.

HDMI video: Whoever said that the receiver has a video bypass mode is mistaken. I made sure that the Video Format is "Auto" under Video Setup. I played a Bluray movie that is 24Hz using my PS3. I forced 24Hz out of the PS3 by turning on the 24Hz support explicitly. I made sure the PS3 is working that way by connecting the PS3 directly to my projector. My projector said it was getting 24Hz. I connected through the T747 and the projector said it was receiving 60Hz. If I press DISP button on the remote, the T747 displays 60Hz. WTF. Looks like the T747 is converting the incoming 24Hz signal into 60Hz.

I now connected my iMac and forced it to output 24Hz. I still got 60Hz on the display. Now, I went to the Video Format menu in the T747 and forced it to output 1080p 24Hz. After confirming, now it outputs 24Hz. However, it always outputs 24Hz. It is even converting 60Hz back to 24Hz. Oh Boy! Looks like there is no native pass through and no easy way to change the resolution unless I go through several remote button clicks. One more thing is the Deep Color - if I connect PS3 directly to my projector, my projector gets 12-bit color, through T747, I get 10-bit color. Not the same signal.

I have not tested how much of the black and whites it is clipping. Both my projector and PS3 can display the full spectrum - need to check.

HDMI Audio: My prior concerns were not warranted as when I did an automatic audio setup on the PS3 through HDMI, the PS3 reported back that according to the EDID information from the T747, all audio formats were supported including 7.1 channel 192kHz PCM. I played an SACD on the PS3 and it played but the PS3 does not report what sample rate it has converted the DSD stream to in the PCM world. The HK reported the sample rate - but the T747 does not. I played Chris Botti and Friends Bluray that has 5.1 PCM in 24-bit/96kHz. It played fine.

Sound quality is on par with the T744 - but I only paid $150 for the T744 used.

All in all, first impressions have been frustrating. I will give it more serious listening over the next couple of days and post back. Hopefully Audio Advisor has no restock fee. There is a chance it is going back. I would assume that there are no firmware updates for this especially it has been EOL'd. HK issued several firmware updates for the 745 and I was able to apply them through the USB port.

In my opinion, they need to implement at least the following features:

1) Signal in - Signal out. So, 24Hz in -> 24Hz out. 60Hz in -> 60Hz out.
2) HDMI for video, optical for audio - capability for source setup
3) Display sample rate of audio being received. This is just for information, but will be helpful.

Any comments. I still can't believe how much bigger and heavier the HK AVR 745 is compared to the T747!
post #177 of 1655
Reading through the manual, it looks like the output resolution issue might be a feature!! According to the manual, the HDMI output resolution can be Auto, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. I would have assumed Auto means something that is Native, but Native is what we need. Auto is what the maximum resolution that the display supports. Since my project supports both 24Hz and 60Hz at 1080p, it chooses 1080p 60Hz if I set it to Auto.
post #178 of 1655
My T747 arrived yesterday, too. Fortunately FedEx delivered it correctly. The last time I had a FedEx delivery, the online tracker reported "Delivered at side door" but I don't have a side door (only front and back), and the box was nowhere to be found. None of my neighbors had it, either. A day later I got a phone call from someone who had received my package and looked up my phone number. They were in another neighborhood about a mile away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

3) Display sample rate of audio being received. This is just for information, but will be helpful.

Setup Menu --> Front Panel Display Setup --> Line 1 or Line 2

You can set either of those lines to "Audio Src Format."

I haven't been able to get above 48kHz yet, via HDMI at least. I tried a DVD burned from 2.0ch 24/96 FLAC downloads in my Oppo BDP-80, with the Oppo's maximum output sample rate set to 96kHz. I also have a commercial Blu-ray with a 2.0 24/88.2 soundtrack, but haven't tried it yet.

So far most of my effort has been in hooking up all my other components to the T747, and re-configuring my Harmony remote.
post #179 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

My T747 arrived yesterday, too. Fortunately FedEx delivered it correctly. The last time I had a FedEx delivery, the online tracker reported "Delivered at side door" but I don't have a side door (only front and back), and the box was nowhere to be found. None of my neighbors had it, either. A day later I got a phone call from someone who had received my package and looked up my phone number. They were in another neighborhood about a mile away!



Setup Menu --> Front Panel Display Setup --> Line 1 or Line 2

You can set either of those lines to "Audio Src Format."

I haven't been able to get above 48kHz yet, via HDMI at least. I tried a DVD burned from 2.0ch 24/96 FLAC downloads in my Oppo BDP-80, with the Oppo's maximum output sample rate set to 96kHz. I also have a commercial Blu-ray with a 2.0 24/88.2 soundtrack, but haven't tried it yet.

So far most of my effort has been in hooking up all my other components to the T747, and re-configuring my Harmony remote.

I looked at that Audio Src Format. It showed the sample rate for 2 channel pcm through optical from my mac. Confirmed, it is receiving 96kHz. That's good. For multi channel PCM, it just says Multi ch PCM - so no sample rate.

But this is not even a real gripe. My real gripe is what it is doing to the video.
post #180 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post
...My real gripe is what it is doing to the video.
My guess is that your projector doesn't display 1080p. Therein may lie the answer.

The manual says on page 31:
Quote:

Frame Rate: Frame rate refers to the number of frames or images that are projected or displayed per second in motion pictures, television or computer video display.

Depending upon your area and video resolution capability of your TV/Monitor, the following Frame Rate options are available

50Hz: setting normally for Europe and most of Asia

60Hz: setting normally for North America

24Hz: select to deliver film-like motion characteristics; available or selectable only if your TV/Monitor supports 1080p.

When the Resolution to Display is set to Auto, Frame Rate as an option will not be available.

IMPORTANT NOTES
The source component, the T 747 and the TV/Monitor must have the same frame rate settings. If they do not have the same settings, video output maybe distorted.

Selectable Frame Rate for 120V version models of T 747 is limited only to 60Hz and 24Hz. If your TV/Monitor does not support 1080p, 24Hz will not appear as an option.
I quoted this section of the manual earlier on the thread to someone else. I am sorry if you missed it.

Your first impression comments remind me of my experience with owning a "pre-owned" Jaguar some years ago, before the company was bought out. My late son was a Jaguar master technician who owned his own repair shop in MD. My wife wanted to respect his love for Jags by buying a used one from a neighbor. The Jag didn't have the bells and whistles of the then-current upper end models from Detroit which perhaps affected sales. It wasn't until we rode in it that we really appreciated what the Jag reputation is all about.

So it is with NAD. As the review on Audioholics noted:

Quote:
NAD's audio centric philosophy has established their solid reputation of no nonsense performance over a barrage of useless features most consumers won't utilize.
If a feature rich AVR floats your boat, I'd suggest returning the T 747. It's audio performance that NADs are known for.

Dana
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