The "Official" NAD T 747 Owner's Thread - Page 9

Paul thanks for your comments and the reassurance on the Nad t747.

That being said I have heard the 747 and loved the sound and ready to buy it but I read a user review in amazon were a user said he had a bluray movie which had a few scenes in 60hz and then the rest of the movie in 24p and then a few scenes again in 60hz and that he experienced judder through the 747 as it cannot automatically set the frame rates and that the user needs to change it manually....

Can u comment on that...

Thanks

So long as you realize this is just my opinion.

First, I cannot find the review you refer to on Amazon.com, so I cannot comment directly to it.

However, in my opinion, I doubt the T747 is the real culprit; I would look long and hard at the HDMI cables, the television, and the blu-ray player involved first.

For example, some older TV's seem to have synch problems at 60hz, often needing a 59hz signal to stay stable. This usually manifests as a slow flashing on the screen. Though probably not exactly the same thing, this sounds like something along those lines to me.

Obviously, I cannot guarantee a T747, or any other receiver, is going to work flawlessly in your system. And in fact, the T747 and all the NAD gear above it is very revealing of flaws in a system. If there are any, you will probably notice them with a T747.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

The sound, the flexibility, the very low cost, and in my experience, the rock solid build quality all make the T747 a no brainer for me. In other words, even though it is the "low end" of NAD in terms of AVRs, it is an order of magnitude above the Pioneers, Denons, and such you find in the same price range.

By price range, I am talking about the < $1K price range it is selling for right now. I've seen T747's for $699.

YMMV, don't buy it unless you are comfortable spending the money on it.
But if you do buy one, I think you will be very happy with it.

If you run into issues, and you invariably will, take the time to troubleshoot them and get the facts. Chances are, it won't be the T747 at fault, and fixing or replacing whatever *is* wrong will almost certainly make a drastic improvement in your kit.

-Paul

P.S. I do understand your concern. I am VERY lucky to have a high end shop in my area, and I can trust the people there to give me straight answers. I almost always take their advice too. It's a whole different world trying to use the internet to research opinion. Trust your ears and do what feels right to you.

hi paul,

thanks for ur words.... i'm putting the link to the amazon review i talked about earlier... it's by HAL...

Do read it and let me know what you think of it...

http://www.amazon.com/review/RH15PZ6TB57GL

Thanks

To a degree he is correct - if you do not have all your components - BR -> T747 -> Television, it is quite possible to get some undesirable results.

However, I personally have never experienced the same kinds of issues the reviewer here describes, and my family watches a lot of videos.

Also, just to be clear, you realize that 24fps is not great for videos and almost all broadcast and streamed television? It can make almost anything but a movie look rather - well - staged. We watch a lot of stuff in 30p/60h mode just for that reason.

The switch between 24p and 30p is manual, as indeed, I think it should be. I apologize if I mislead you before - I meant that there is never a switch within a movie.

As far as I know all the content on a DVD is laid down at 24p, and the player is doing what is known as a pulldown. And the format is different between bluray and DVD - though it is beyond me to explain the differences.

I do not think any of this should be of great concern. However, if it is a concern for you, then, if the budget allows, I would recommend spending $999 and picking up a T747 and a B557 at the same time. If you local dealer does not have the special, or has qualms about returns, then Crutchfield is easy to buy from, and they also have a nice no-hassle return policy.

rana_kirti, did I miss it or did you tell us where you are from. The people that seem to have the frame rate issues are using PAL standard tv's, most of them in Europe. Are you using one?

i live in india.... i'm intend to use the Nad T 747 with Optoma HD65 projector which my cousin got for me from usa. Will there be issues between the avr & the projector.

also a lot of people talk about handshake issues of the t 747. what are these ?

Since the T747 and the Optoma seem to be for North America I would guess that they should be compatible with each other.

I believe it was Paul who wrote that in the digital age handshake issues are bound to happen as so many components have to sync up, for example just today my Samsung tv claimed "mode not supported" with my blu ray player and T747 although the tv has worked fine every other time with this exact same setup. I turned the tv off then on again and it worked fine. I have owned my T747 for about 11 months and whenever I have issues it appears that the source component is the issue, like my PS3. And it is always easy to correct.

Hi, new guy here. Long time lurker.

Just got my NAD T747. Blind-bought because it was a great price and I was raised with a NAD 3020i in the house and the reviews have been excellent. I'm waiting for my speakers to arrive, so it's sitting forlornly on my table at the moment.

I'm looking at the video issues that people seem to be having, and now I'm worried. I'm a PS3 and PC user (amongst other things), and because those sources tend to switch resolution, frame rates and colour formats for every other game, video and special feature, am I in for a world of hurt?

I have a Sony KDL46Z4500, and the TV always alerts me to changes in output, etc. It does this quite a bit so I know the amp NOT interfering with resolution, component/RGB full range/ and refresh/frame rate etcetera is rather important to me.

I may consider getting an HDMI splitter to feed the amp HDMI audio and the TV the original signal if the video processing can't be bypassed.

Looks like things may be, let's say, complicated in your situation with a T747. An HDMI splitter may be a good workaround. Please keep us updated. Definitely would like to know your final outcome.

I was one of the guys that bought and returned the 747 not because it was bad but because it was not any better than the HK AVR 745 that I already have. I have the older NAD T744 in the living room and love it.

That said, the NAD T747's video output is slightly flawed even though most people won't care. It does not have a true pass through. For example, in other receivers such as HK AVR 3600 or 7550HD you can set the receiver to just pass through the video without applying any framerate or resolution change. In fact, in the 7550HD, you can set it so that it will output 1080p60 or 1080p24. But there is no such setting in the T747. You have to manually set 1080p60 or 1080p24, etc. So, if I am watching a Bluray movie, I will have to manually change the output option in the 747 to 1080p24 so that the 1080p24 output from my BD player stays that way until it reaches my 1080p24 capable projector. Otherwise, the 747 will change it to 1080p60. But if I leave it at 1080p24, then it will convert 1080p60 coming from a PS3 game or some other source to 1080p24. Not good.

That said, it might not be a big deal for many people, especially if their TV does not support 1080p24.

Thanks. I'm going to try plugging it in tonight and flicking about on the PlayStation 3 to see what the NAD video processor does as it changes output modes. I'll put a headphone in the socket to make sure the unconnected amps aren't affected, although I'm sure it doesn't matter.

My TV never seems to have any trouble with 24/50/60Hz signals, so I'm curious to see if the NAD's video processor allows mode switching on the fly.

I know the firmware updates fixes some issues. I did contact my local NAD agent who has directed me to my local service outlet, but I find it very irritating that I can't just use a USB to RS-232 adapter and a download to do it myself. What gives?

By the way, if anyone knows of an active Y-type splitter that actually works to deliver video to the screen and audio to the receiver without conflict (I assume it'd have to have some kind of handshake spoofing or HDCP-stripping tech) please let me know where to find it.

I'm assuming passive leads won't work.

Sorry to harp on this, but this is my understanding so far. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is the case, then:

• Any signal at 1920x1080 will pass through completely unmodified
• All signals at a lower resolution will be upscaled automatically at the native frame-rate of the set

My PC will go straight to the TV, as it's a DVI-HDMI signal and uses coaxial S/PDIF for audio and it doesn't seem like you can combine HDMI and S/PDIF sources.

The solution to all of this, presuming the "1080p=passthrough" info is correct, is to insert an external scaler that doesn't alter frame rate between your variable-output sources and the T747, thereby ensuring that the scaler doesn't activate.

Either you're trusting the TV's internal scaler, the source, or the NAD's to fill your 1080p set's screen.

I'm not worried about a change in resolution from lower-resolution sources (720p games on the ps3 running at 1080p is fine by me), but the problem I see is that games running at 60Hz might have issues with 50Hz sets, and possibly the upscaling will introduce lag (ugh). I'm also hoping that the change in resolution during operation doesn't cause issues, but that hasn't been stated here.

If the PS3 causes refresh/cadence trouble when switching resolutions (I'll try it tonight), I'll just buy an external scaler for it. All my other sources have fixed 1080p output.

Yeah, it's a bust. Stuck at 50Hz (which neither games nor video are natively) despite being on auto.

My firmware is apparently outdated (M 1.20) and so I've decided to buy a splitter/duplicator box.

Argh.

Bad design choice, NAD.

Sorry you are having issues. Thanks for the update.

I find the inability to pass signal without processing to be an inexcusable design flaw, but honestly I think my workaround will actually be better than if the video worked.

All my HDMI sources are being plugged into an intelligent/manual 5-1 switcher, so no need to select between sources on the receiver any more. Nice for my partner who subtly resents all the remote-hopping.

The 5-1's output is going to a 1-2 active signal splitter, with the one lead going to the display, and the other to the receiver. I can't see this failing unless the boxes are defective.

All told, $131.18 for the new boxes

The output resolution of the T747 (1080p, 1080i, 720p, whatever) is determined by a setting in the setup menu. If the resolution of the input signal matches that setting, then the T747 passes the signal through unmodified, as far as I can tell. (This assumes the frame rates match, of course.)

My DVR and T747 are both set to output 1080i, and I cannot tell the difference between feeding the DVR directly to my TV, and feeding it through the T747.

Actually, now I am a little confused. 50/60hz is not usually found in a single device.
I would rather expect strange results - to say the least - if you tried to run a 50hz PAL signal through North American 60hz gear.

Indeed, I do not even think that 50hz is selectable in North American gear.

At the very least, you will need to run the 50hz signal through an external converter box.

-Paul

Why? Just turn off HDMI audio in the T747 and it will strip the audio off the HDMI signal.
Works the same if you use another digital or analog input for the sound.

Well, learn something new every day. Most players here are restricted to Region-1 and NTSC, but I have never owned an OPPO.

North American Centric I suppose.

Still, if the BRP is converting the signal, then what possible impact can it have on the T747,which does not handle 50hz PAL signals? At least to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge.

-Paul

Just an idea- would it be possible to create a variety of Presets for different frame rates? That way you wouldn't have to dive down deep into the menu when viewing different types of video, you could just toggle presets. Maybe someone who's more expert on the subject can comment.

It certainly seems the lack of true video passthru is a frustration for many people and is a dealbreaker for people outside of North America. If you have a top of the line bluray player and a top of the line tv, there's no reason for your top of the line AVR to futz with the video signal. Too many cooks and whatnot. I think this feature, plus the ability to perform firmware updates through a usb port, should be required on any decent modern AVR (decent being anything over $500). The T747 has been around for a few years now- it would be great to see NAD make these features standard on future models.

I'm in Australia. TV and this region's DVDs are at 50Hz, PS3 games, PCs. imported American DVDs and some blu-ray extras are at 60Hz and Blu-ray is at 24Hz.

My TV (Sony KDL46Z4500) is 1080p native and scales 720p very well. and can display 50Hz, 60Hz and 24Hz (as well as some higher refresh rate PC signals.

To create presets for all these modes and variations so that they're not scaled and cadenced by the NAD would be time consuming and pointless as my TV handles them automatically and satisfactorily. It's much easier to just have an external selector and splitter and use the receiver only for sound.

Here's my wiring layout.

All my HDMI components go through the source selector and then the splitter to (separately) the receiver and TV.

The source selector and splitter work flawlessly (a first in my experience with HDMI goodies thus far). The source selector is an auto-selector that chooses first in order of what's running, and then any device that has just powered on, but also has a little remote receiver that allows manual selection.

It seems to send back HDCP/static EDID verification to all devices continuously, so source-jumping never causes black screens or my DVD player to revert to SD (which sometimes happened when I switch it on before my receiver)..

The splitter has not been rejected by any HDMI devices.

These device both came from EzyHD.com.au, if anyone is wondering. Excellent service, but if you're in the US, the wall adaptors obviously will need replacing for local voltages/frequency.

The PC is an older model running DVI-HDMI, but can't output HDMI audio, so it's sending an S/PDIF signal to the receiver. I might consider springing for an embedder box, but it's a functional enough solution for now.

The PS2 has a component direct into the TV as I prefer the TV to process video directly, and an S/PDIF out to the receiver.

I have just ordered a Logitech Harmony One and PS3 adaptor to make this all a little easy for my partner to operate (and to finally clear up the ever-growing remote pile).

Seems complicated enough, I guess, but it's really quite simple in operation.

I have posted on this thread before and I hope my postings have helped people on the video modes. I bought and returned a T747 when it was $699 from AudioAdvisor. I returned it because it did not offer a big upgrade from HK AVR 745 sonically and also the video issues turned me off. After that I ended up buying a more expensive HK AVR 7550HD and also returned it because my 745 was still that good! That said, the T747 is now $599 at AA. If you combine this with an Oppo 93 that has two HDMI outputs, you can bypass all video issues by going directly from the Oppo to the display. So, for $1100 you can get a kickass system! BTW, even a Panasonic BDT-300, 350 and 310 have 2 HDMI outputs. I currently have a BDT-300 and it works very well.

Also, unlike the T747, the HK AVR 7550HD did the video parts correctly by passing through 1080p24 and 1080p60 but scaling the other resolutions. It also had a way to completely pass through any resolution (bypass mode). I wish the T747 had this.

Also, to those that wanted to include the frame rate in a preset - can't do that on the T747.

I am currently looking to upgrade my receiver. I am using a Pioneer Elite VSX-82 and I have been intrigued with the NAD. I like my Elite, but I feel like I am missing some fullness in the sound that I used to get with my old Harman Kardon. I loved the HK sound, but I was not impressed with their durability, so I switched. I know NAD and HK have a great reputation for the power so that is why I was drawn to NAD this time.

I am running a 7.1 system and my fronts are Ascend Acoustics CBM-170, and center is a Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1. I will use this for 80% movies. I have a Panasonic DMP-BD55 blu-ray player that I currently hook up via the 7.1 channel output so I can get the lossless sound produced through the blu-ray player since my receiver will not. Will I be able to connect it via HDMI and get the NAD to decode the lossless audio?

Will the HDMI ports do pass through so I can use my setup w/out the receiver on?

k2208, if you like the HK sound, definitely look at the HK AVR 7550HD. They are on clearance at 6ave.com. I bought it and returned it only because HK AVR 745 that I have had for the past 4 years is still kicking ass! The 7550HD is more sophisticated in both video and audio compared to the NAD T747, however the NAD is half the price. It also has great sound. You cannot go wrong with either.

The T747 does all the video bits correctly, correctly passing 1080p at 24hz and at 60hz, without any video artifacts. It will not do 50hz on U.S. or Canadian models.

What I think you are saying is it will not auto-switch based upon the input signal, but instead requires you to set the input signal frame rate manually.

None of which is incorrect behavior. This may or may not be a problem, depending upon what you want.

On the other hand, the new replacements are about to roll out, and I expect they will have some video processing upgrades. They won't be $600 though!

-Paul