or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Consumer Level Disney World of Wonder (WOW) vs. DVE Blu Ray
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Consumer Level Disney World of Wonder (WOW) vs. DVE Blu Ray - Page 5

post #121 of 450
.....

Just to keep things on a positive note, the critics do seem to agree that Disney WOW fills a need in the market.


CE PRO MAGAZINE
(Editor's Top Picks for 2010)

“The disc previews and explains calibration in a way that will be understandable to the non-technical.”



THE PERFECT VISION

“Contrast that with the numerous HD clips on the Blu-ray WOW disc, especially those on the Visions: Inspired By Nature companion disc, and it’s clear that the Disney effort is by far the most comprehensive calibration disc effort to date.”



SOUND & VISION MAGAZINE

“… WOW is, not surprisingly, the disc most intended for consumers; it’s packed with clear, useful tutorials and includes a helpful printed manual.”



HD GURU

“I begrudgingly admit this disc is fantastic.”

“To get your TV setup correctly, there’s everything you need here. It even has one of the best brightness test patterns I’ve ever seen.”



HOME THEATER REVIEW

“The biggest challenge facing the author of a calibration disc is to make the disc advanced enough to please the enthusiast who's more likely to use it regularly, but also simple enough that the average user can understand the test patterns. Disney's new WOW calibration disc does a nice job walking that fine line.”
post #122 of 450
Clearly, you are not the intended audience.

So, if you do not find this disc or any of its 4 hours plus worth of content to be of any value, I am happy to personally refund your money. Please send me a PM and I will send you my address. You can ship the disc and I will issue you a refund. We want every customer to be 100% satisfied.

To be clear, we are not in competition with AVSHS, S&M, or HD Essentials. Someone who has all of the gear, knowledge, skills, and ISF Certification to perform a professional calibration will want one of those discs.

Disney WOW is meant to bring calibration to the masses....worldwide. The largest number of Consumer Complaints, Warranty Service Calls, and HDTV Returns is due to improperly calibrated panels. This is especially the case when the manufacturer ships the sets in "Torch" or "Energy" mode.

Sure, I could have produced the end all, be all calibration disc...but other products aoready exist that serve that niche. Our goal was to produce a non-competing product that actually would be useful to a technical neophyte or an average everyday consumer.

We feel that the level of education provided was correct without getting overly technical or verbose. I firmly believe we provided the average Consumer with just enough information to better understand what they purchased, or have not purchased.

Also, we included the tools required to achieve a much higher level of satisfaction with their Home Theater.

Last but not least, about 1 hour and 40 minutes of super high bit rate Disney / Pixar content so they can enjoy and show-off their system to family, friends, and neighbors.

Again, if you are a "Tweaker" you may be well served by going with a more technical product and deeper in to the setup & service menus and play to your heart's content. This is not an area I really wanted to promote to consumers. Most will do more harm than good unless the are truly knowledgeable, experienced, and equipped for this level of calibration.

So, in the end, it is not my intention to argue. I have been a member of too many forums for too long to get pulled in to that "no win" situation. I am offering you a refund if you cannot return the disc to the place of purchase.
post #123 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Even the Monster disc has a few things to offer. The moving "X" to aid in setting black level is very clever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

...and to buzzard767, WOW's Star patterns for setting brightness and contrast ARE clever (and they are stars, not X's) WOW's sharpness pattern is completely useless.

Perhaps if you could relieve yourself of your heated state you could actually read what I posted.
post #124 of 450
I just want to add my humble two cents as a PJ newbie who bought the WOW disc.
Firstly, I felt it had a very well thought out menu interface and allowed me to navigate to everything efficiently. The presentation was colorful and appealing.

On the test patterns, all were excellent apart from the sharpness test, which, no matter how I cranked up the sharpness, did not seem to alter at all! All the other tests were very easy to follow and well designed. Within literally 5 minutes, I had calibrated the most important basics and the PJ looks great. Adding a downloadable manual and corresponding booklet allowed me to read up ahead of using the disc and this helped immensely.

Obviously, if I had more inclination to do a more advanced job, I would need more equipment, but I think the WOW did a good job in that it made everything understandable to any "average" person. The terminology is explained very well. I cannot understand how a normal listener would get confused, given that there is a manual that you can read beforehand, and also audio commentary with video examples to explain what you are aiming for (the ideal result). It definitely made me more receptive to learning more about calibration, and I may do so later when I get some more free time.

One valid criticism I have heard is that there needs to be many more video samples featuring human beings (not animation) so that you can judge skin tones better. The majority of films people watch are not from Pixar, for example.

What I would also suggest is that the WOW team build on this excellent product and consider releasing an even better package by including some of the more advanced gamma scale test patterns that are missing, but only in the Expert section, or release a branded "WOW Professional" edition. I would certainly buy that given my respect for the overall quality of the product.

Finally, I do hope that some forumites show a bit more respect and less hostility to other AV Forum members, especially those who are taking the time to help out others and even provide in-depth insight regarding the thought process behind producing such a disc.
post #125 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Perhaps if you could relieve yourself of your heated state you could actually read what I posted.

My state is not heated.

But I did misread your post. I mistakenly assumed you were referring to the WOW patterns. My apologies.
post #126 of 450
RBFilms

Rather than quote your well explained comment, let me just say this.

I totally understand your position on wanting to offer a calibration disk for the masses. Personally, I think it would not have been a big deal to include grayscale patterns. But you didn't. That's certainly your choice. Many people would have no use for them. I may not agree with the omission, but that's obviously not going to be a problem for most.

Could you at least accept my criticism of the sharpness pattern? I am not the only person to speak about it. I am not trying to be difficult and argumentative here. The fact is that the pattern simply is not helpful in setting sharpness. In fact, it's quite possible that many people will be setting sharpness way too high since they won't see the artifacts described in the pattern's instruction.

Believe me, this is intended to be constructive criticism, and not just some blowhard raising a ruckus for no reason at all. Not including patterns that most people won't use is understandable, but the sharpness pattern is simply unusable.

I appreciate your offer of a refund. I'm not going to take advantage of it, though but thanks anyway. I'll just donate it to my local library. Regardless, thank you for the gracious gesture.
post #127 of 450
Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defective_pixel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfix View Post

How do i tell the difference between stuck and dead. One pixel is red and the other is yellow(ish)?
post #128 of 450
Sorry Double post
post #129 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

I would rephrase your sharpness comment and ad "to me" at the end of it being totally worthless. I was able to use it with my Epson 8350 and set my sharpness adjustment. so it was worthwhile "to me"

A good number of people with variety of different displays have commented in this thread on their problems with this, so I'm not the only one.
post #130 of 450
Sharpness 101:

Sharpness adjustments technically have no place in digital video, it's a throwback to analog video. In their infinite wisdom, TV marketing types have decided that a TV MUST have a sharpness control to be perceived as "complete". In reality, on an HDMI input it shouldn't do anything. That said, it's true that many TVs employ a variety of tricks to get the sharpness controls to do something visible, including EE with or without DNR and a few other things. There are also examples of TVs where the sharpness controls do nothing at all. So at best it does nothing and at worst it does harm to the image in most cases. That said, it's also true that some TVs, especially PJs, may produce something acceptable with careful and minimal use of a sharpness adjustment. For this reason, sharpness patterns can be employed from the various calibrations discs to check and see what the TV actually does with that adjustment. But it's a certainty that no 2 TVs will be equal in the effects. And in more cases than not it should be at "0" for the cleanest image.
post #131 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Sharpness 101:

Sharpness adjustments technically have no place in digital video, it's a throwback to analog video. In their infinite wisdom, TV marketing types have decided that a TV MUST have a sharpness control to be perceived as "complete". In reality, on an HDMI input it shouldn't do anything. That said, it's true that many TVs employ a variety of tricks to get the sharpness controls to do something visible, including EE with or without DNR and a few other things. There are also examples of TVs where the sharpness controls do nothing at all. So at best it does nothing and at worst it does harm to the image in most cases. That said, it's also true that some TVs, especially PJs, may produce something acceptable with careful and minimal use of a sharpness adjustment. For this reason, sharpness patterns can be employed from the various calibrations discs to check and see what the TV actually does with that adjustment. But it's a certainty that no 2 TVs will be equal in the effects. And in more cases than not it should be at "0" for the cleanest image.

I agree totally...for the majority of displays. On some displays, 0 is not the optimal setting. Hence the need for a reliable pattern to check in these cases. The pattern on the WOW disk is not reliable.
post #132 of 450
I just ordered this WOW disk from Amazon. However, I also recently received the Spears & Munsil disk with my new Oppo. I plan to run them both for comparative purposes. For those of you who have both, which one should I run first?
post #133 of 450
Need a bit of help... used the WOW disc on my PT-AE4000U projector, projecting on a white (with slight yellow tint) wall... I know I know... have to voercome the WAF before a screen can be installed. Anyway, after cailbration on the chroma and hue, those test patterns do look as they are supposed to (like the ideal).

However, when watching movies I still sense that there is a reddish hint to flesh tones. I did read that this is a "characteristic" of this projector, but shouldn't a calibration according to the chroma/hue test negate all issues originally caused by the white wall and the PJ itself?

All help and advice very much appreciated.
post #134 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

Need a bit of help... used the WOW disc on my PT-AE4000U projector, projecting on a white (with slight yellow tint) wall... I know I know... have to voercome the WAF before a screen can be installed. Anyway, after cailbration on the chroma and hue, those test patterns do look as they are supposed to (like the ideal).

However, when watching movies I still sense that there is a reddish hint to flesh tones. I did read that this is a "characteristic" of this projector, but shouldn't a calibration according to the chroma/hue test negate all issues originally caused by the white wall and the PJ itself?

All help and advice very much appreciated.

Get a real screen before anything else... there are quite a few inexpensive options out there. see the screen forum..
post #135 of 450
Maybe need to get a new wife
post #136 of 450
I am here to support users of the Disney WOW product who may have question.

I believe this was answered already in this thread so I will direct you to this post in the thread which you may have missed.

We stand by every A/V Tool, included or not, on the disc. This is a Consumer / Enthusiast disc with excellent calibration tools. ISF, CEDIA, and Industry Experts have put this disc through the wringer ... and it has received an enthusiastic thumbs up from all. All tests have been verified as technically accurate. Please see explanation below which may help explain the experience you are having.

Thank you,

Richard Casey
Executive Producer

---------------

rdgrimes
Addicted Member

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 10,650


Sharpness 101:

Sharpness adjustments technically have no place in digital video, it's a throwback to analog video. In their infinite wisdom, TV marketing types have decided that a TV MUST have a sharpness control to be perceived as "complete". In reality, on an HDMI input it shouldn't do anything. That said, it's true that many TVs employ a variety of tricks to get the sharpness controls to do something visible, including EE with or without DNR and a few other things. There are also examples of TVs where the sharpness controls do nothing at all. So at best it does nothing and at worst it does harm to the image in most cases. That said, it's also true that some TVs, especially PJs, may produce something acceptable with careful and minimal use of a sharpness adjustment. For this reason, sharpness patterns can be employed from the various calibrations discs to check and see what the TV actually does with that adjustment. But it's a certainty that no 2 TVs will be equal in the effects. And in more cases than not it should be at "0" for the cleanest image.
__________________
Oppo Beta Group


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

RBFilms

Rather than quote your well explained comment, let me just say this.

I totally understand your position on wanting to offer a calibration disk for the masses. Personally, I think it would not have been a big deal to include grayscale patterns. But you didn't. That's certainly your choice. Many people would have no use for them. I may not agree with the omission, but that's obviously not going to be a problem for most.

Could you at least accept my criticism of the sharpness pattern? I am not the only person to speak about it. I am not trying to be difficult and argumentative here. The fact is that the pattern simply is not helpful in setting sharpness. In fact, it's quite possible that many people will be setting sharpness way too high since they won't see the artifacts described in the pattern's instruction.

Believe me, this is intended to be constructive criticism, and not just some blowhard raising a ruckus for no reason at all. Not including patterns that most people won't use is understandable, but the sharpness pattern is simply unusable.

I appreciate your offer of a refund. I'm not going to take advantage of it, though but thanks anyway. I'll just donate it to my local library. Regardless, thank you for the gracious gesture.
post #137 of 450
I really like WoW, it has several test patterns that are the best I've seen. But I still keep DVE and Spears and Munsil because only all three offer the best for everything. Here are a few that I find exceptional:

Wow: Brightness (finally no fixation, fixed the I think I see it syndrome)
Wow: Gamma (oh that's my gamma, and all I have to do is take off my glasses to blend the pixels)
DVE: Sharpness (not even S&M is so allergic to edge enhancement)
S&M: Contrast and Clipping (hey look contrast is hot! or wrong color space, d'oh!)
DVE: Color (for use with RGB mode or filter)
Wow: basic Color (are skintones natural? are the other colors vivid? do the hues look right? you're done!)

btw not one of those three nor Avia have complete test patterns to use with a meter so I don't know what the ranting was about.

I didn't watch the goofy intro to hdtvs so maybe it was there... but the biggest thing missing is spelling out what at least dve does: turn off advanced features, put into movie/theater/accurate mode to begin. Alot of people could be trying unsuccessfully to get the right settings not knowing they were fighting dynamic contrast or edge enhancement.
post #138 of 450
Although I am not a professionnal (far from it), I started to educate myself about display technology, video production and standards in 2006, before I took the plunge to buy my first HDTV.
I used Avia and DVD essentials for a first shot at calibration, and then an ISF certified calibrator adjusted what I could not. In 2006, I could not find a disc in HD

I got a new LCD TV recently and acquired the WOW disc to calibrate it, pending professionnal calibration. Then, I lend the disc to a friend, to help him set his TV as best he could. This guy did not want to learn about video technology, he just want good settings for his TV and to be able to do it himself in case his kids screwed it up. However, he called me the next day to tell me that he had learned a lot using the disc, and that he now had more technical questions not covered in it. For me, it means that WOW was complete enough on how to optimize a display for the average viewer, while simple enough for the not so curious about how things work.
post #139 of 450
Hi,

I am having some difficulty understanding how to properly set the contrast using the advanced contrast pattern on the WOW disc. I have a Panasonic S2 plasma.

Previously I tried the THX patterns as part of the Terminator 2 bluray. I couldn't obtain what I thought where the correct settings. I realized that my bluray player (LG BD390) had an auto contrast as part of the auto mode so I switched to the user mode and made sure that it was turned off.

When I run the contrast test on the WOW disc, I can see all the stars and except for the very right hand edge, all of the squares. I don't see a lot of change when I adjust the contrast on the TV. What should I be looking for? (is this normal for my setup)

Thanks
post #140 of 450
I'd like to purchase the WOW disc:

Does it matter if I purchase/use a WOW DVD or BD? I ask because I have a BD hooked with my projector in basement, and have a regular DVD player in my livingroom hooked to an LCD TV...I'd like to calibrate both of them with one disc if possible.

If I get the DVD, will I lose any PQ with my BD/Projector set-up?
post #141 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekkerl View Post

I'd like to purchase the WOW disc:

Does it matter if I purchase/use a WOW DVD or BD? I ask because I have a BD hooked with my projector in basement, and have a regular DVD player in my livingroom hooked to an LCD TV...I'd like to calibrate both of them with one disc if possible.

If I get the DVD, will I lose any PQ with my BD/Projector set-up?

If you want to use the same disc on both players, you have no other choice but to get the DVD version. My advice is to get both versions so you have the right tool for each job.
post #142 of 450
George is correct. If you have a DVD and BD Player, you must have teh DVD.

However, there are differences between teh DVD and BD Version.

DVD is in a different color space, does not have the pixel flipper, and has patterns optimized for a Standard Definition TV.

Also, you will see some scaling & artifacts on certain evaluation patterns due to up-conversion.

The ideal thing to do is buy a decent yet inexpensive Blu-ray Player. There are 1 or 2 that I think are pretty good for under $150. The buy the BD Version and get the BD Disney WOW Disc.

Your end result will be better if you do this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mekkerl View Post

I'd like to purchase the WOW disc:

Does it matter if I purchase/use a WOW DVD or BD? I ask because I have a BD hooked with my projector in basement, and have a regular DVD player in my livingroom hooked to an LCD TV...I'd like to calibrate both of them with one disc if possible.

If I get the DVD, will I lose any PQ with my BD/Projector set-up?
post #143 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

George is correct. If you have a DVD and BD Player, you must have teh DVD.

However, there are differences between teh DVD and BD Version.

DVD is in a different color space, does not have the pixel flipper, and has patterns optimized for a Standard Definition TV.

Also, you will see some scaling & artifacts on certain evaluation patterns due to up-conversion.

The ideal thing to do is buy a decent yet inexpensive Blu-ray Player. There are 1 or 2 that I think are pretty good for under $150. The buy the BD Version and get the BD Disney WOW Disc.

Your end result will be better if you do this.

Excellent, just what I needed to hear...BD WOW it is!
post #144 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekkerl View Post

Excellent, just what I needed to hear...BD WOW it is!

No wait! The sd color space issue doesn't matter and it is only slightly different from the hd color space anyway, not important for basic calibration. And the pixel flipper is just a boutique feature and I doubt you'll use it. Buy the dvd, that is what you want.

Buying another blu-ray player just to use for the 10 minutes it takes to do a basic calibration is NOT the answer.
post #145 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

No wait! The sd color space issue doesn't matter and it is only slightly different from the hd color space anyway, not important for basic calibration. And the pixel flipper is just a boutique feature and I doubt you'll use it. Buy the dvd, that is what you want.

Buying another blu-ray player just to use for the 10 minutes it takes to do a basic calibration is NOT the answer.


What if I was to plug in the Blu-Ray player to my sammy LCD and calibrate it with the BD? Then, put the player back with the projector... Would this work? I assume I would only need to make sure to plug the blu-ray blayer into the same input as my DVD player.

Make sense?
post #146 of 450
That should be fine, and any hdmi port will do, there is no reason for it to vary from one hdmi port to another.
post #147 of 450
As the title says, i got my copy of WOW today. I have done my own consumer level calibration since i first read about and tried the THX calibration included with select dvd movies. I then movied on to the DVE disc with decent results. After all the good things i read about Spears & Munsil i had to try it, and the results were excellent. Then i came across the Disney WOW disc and had to try it.

After jotting down my current settings,I ran through the advanced setup ,on my TH50Pz800U . I have not done anything with this set other than minor adjustments prior to using the WOW disc. After the calibration i ended up with settings similar to what i had , but the difference in picture quality was huge. I believe this disc should be sold with every new tv.The layout and ease of navigation is second to none. I will say the Spears & Munsil disc does a great job as well but in no where as intuitive,or as quick to use. This disc has just enough info for the novice or average user without being overwhelming . I personally believe it caters perfectly to its intended audience. Job well done imho.

I dont post very often,mostly i am here to learn. My next aquistion is a I1 colorimeter. I now have a laptop,the required patterns and a pretty decent understanding or calibration and am ready to take the next step. Its great how the experts share and help here on the avs forums. thanks.
post #148 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

George is correct. If you have a DVD and BD Player, you must have teh DVD.

However, there are differences between teh DVD and BD Version.

DVD is in a different color space, does not have the pixel flipper, and has patterns optimized for a Standard Definition TV.

Also, you will see some scaling & artifacts on certain evaluation patterns due to up-conversion.

The ideal thing to do is buy a decent yet inexpensive Blu-ray Player. There are 1 or 2 that I think are pretty good for under $150. The buy the BD Version and get the BD Disney WOW Disc.

Your end result will be better if you do this.

Hi Richard, i was wondering - since dvd and bluray use a different colorspace,what exactly takes place when i play a dvd in my bd player. Does it use rec 709 or rec 601. And if i calibrate it with the bd at rec 709 what does this do to my dvd color space.
post #149 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

Hi Richard, i was wondering - since dvd and bluray use a different colorspace,what exactly takes place when i play a dvd in my bd player. Does it use rec 709 or rec 601. And if i calibrate it with the bd at rec 709 what does this do to my dvd color space.

A BD player that upconverts to HD resolution, should also convert the colorspace from rec.601 to rec.709. Not all players do this correctly, but most newer models do. If you have two discs that both have SMTPE color bars on them, it will be very obvious that they look different if the decoding isn't happening correctly.
post #150 of 450
Thanks scotti that makes perfect sense. I use a sony bdp350s and dvd's played on it look perfect color wise so i would think it is doing its job.I have an oppo in my sights ,once christmas is paid up.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Consumer Level Disney World of Wonder (WOW) vs. DVE Blu Ray