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Consumer Level Disney World of Wonder (WOW) vs. DVE Blu Ray - Page 6

post #151 of 450
I've used Avia, DVE (DVD and Blu-ray versions), and most recently WOW and the WOW disc is by far my favorite.

The patterns are a lot easier to use. The menu layout is quick to navigate and impossible to get lost, and the test clips are great.

I will agree that the sharpness pattern is harder to see artifacts than other patterns I've used but I like it as a tool to focus the projector lens.
post #152 of 450
Newbee question here... I have the WOW BD that I used to calibrate my Vizio XVT3D554SV, playing through my PS3. Since the TV has different settings for each input, should I just copy the settings that I use for my PS3 input over to the input for my Comcast box?
post #153 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankirk View Post

Newbee question here... I have the WOW BD that I used to calibrate my Vizio XVT3D554SV, playing through my PS3. Since the TV has different settings for each input, should I just copy the settings that I use for my PS3 input over to the input for my Comcast box?

That is all i did. Apparently the rec709 standard is headed by all who produce blurays but not by the tv industry. I use the calibrated setting and then from time to time tweak as necessary. Some shows (yeah you CSI Miami)use exaggerated colors and require on the fly adjustments.
post #154 of 450
RBFilms -

I have used SM offsets for my tv as suggested here on AVSForum. One thing us posters have noticed is what SM offsets we use is VERY dependent on the our starting SM settings. Since it is impossible to know everyone's starting SM settings and to have the correct offsets, there is some debate about what are the correct offsets for each person. Without a full in-house calibration we are all kind of guessing in the dark about what SM offsets to use. Without the correct starting SM settings, any DVE or WOW or AVIA changes we might make would be sub-optimal.

Does WOW have any features that would help us confirm that we have the correct SM settings?
post #155 of 450
Every TV is different, even off the same assembly line. Not only that, every TV owner's viewing environment conditions will be somewhat different, requiring different picture control settings. Add to that the variations in signals from varying signal source devices, such as cable/satellite box, optical disc player, game console, etc. This "popular' thread from the top of this section of the forum describes the problem with using the same settings as other samples of the same model of TV: 'Sharing display menu settings?' . To do the best job of adjusting the settings properly, each TV owner should use reference test signals from a source such as the Disney disc, a test pattern generator, or hire a professional calibrator to do the work. There is really no shortcut to image fidelity.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
post #156 of 450
Very interesting post GeorgeAB. Thank you.

I might think I have a great picture, but until I get a professional calibration, I will never know how good it really could be.

So I guess the answer to my above question is that no there is no way that WOW (or DVE or AVIA or any other calibration DVD) could help me set/confirm/deny my SM settings.
post #157 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Very interesting post GeorgeAB. Thank you.

I might think I have a great picture, but until I get a professional calibration, I will never know how good it really could be.

So I guess the answer to my above question is that no there is no way that WOW (or DVE or AVIA or any other calibration DVD) could help me set/confirm/deny my SM settings.

Professional results can be achieved by the consumer, but sufficient instruments/study/aptitude/practice are required.
Some performance characteristics can be adjusted/verified just with test patterns from an optical disc program, but only up to a point. That point will vary with each TV. The discs you mention are important tools for improving the viewing experience with any TV, and at a minimal cost. Perfection, or near perfection typically comes at elevated cost in time/effort/materials/talent/skill/etc.
post #158 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post
I believe your receiver may be setup incorrectly somehow. We will check to be sure, but the disc went through the most rigorous QC possible before release.

I will let you know if we find a bug...but I am fairly confident it is not the disc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfix View Post
Exactly and this goes for all blurays. I just rewatched Toy Story 3 and the full 7.1 dts master audio was ouput. What a difference. Panasonic should really make this clearer as I'm sure there are many others overlooking this and not getting their full audio experience. btw bd secondary audio is on by default :-/
I've had the same 7.1 "problem" from Toy Story 3 (6.1 "problem" from Up). I am using a PS3. How do I turn off secondary audio in the PS3?
post #159 of 450
The disk arrived today. My Sharp LCD required -7 tint and -4 color to align. I could never have set this without the test patterns and filter.

Really, patterns like this should be built into the TV. But they are not. Hey, in an ideal world the TV would have a "black level" rather than a "brightness setting and a "white level" rather than a "contrast" setting. But they don't let me design TVs so this is what we get.

I sort of feel the Disney clips were just ads for the movies - and so I can't say it is my preference they were included. I would rather have, say, a disk for 1/2 the price without Disney clips as you sure feel like you are paying for them.

But, I am much happier buying this and doing three of my sets than spending $300 to $400 each for an ISF calibration. Why? Besides the savings, because even though a professional will bring better tools, I prefer to have the final say and to be able to tweak it from time to time.

This has to be close enough to what a pro could do.

What is lacking? I have an active subwoofer but just in stereo. This disk has no way to set subwoofer level for stereo, only for 5.1, 7.1, etc. I am going to have to somehow get a 30 hz and 200 hz (or so) signal to set the level myself.

So yes, buy this disk. You can fund it by not buying a $50 HDMI cable and buying one for $2.50 from Amazon instead.
post #160 of 450
I started playing with my new blu-ray WOW. My initial impressions.
  • I found out that my video is about 3fps late compared to my audio (or my audio is about 125ms early). Unfortunately my receiver does not allow me add a audio delay.
  • I like the clips of Disney movies as I can use it for demos. However Play Loop, for unknown reason, does not play all the clips - wish it did. In a future release of WOW, suggest that either the Loop was just G-rated (don't think Pirates of Caribbean is G-rated), OR they had a G-rated Loop and a PG-rated Loop. Also, I don't understand why the clips are all in 16:9 format and not in the theatrical format.
  • The description of the tests is kind of boring (and slightly talking down to the users). Wish it was printed on the screen during the test instead, perhaps.
More impressions, later, if someone is interested.
post #161 of 450
Speaking of formats, now that HD 16:9 is established, I cannot understand why anyone would ever film another movie in anything else. It is as good a format as any, and is standard.

I agree it is bad to convert a theatrical format to 16:9 because you crop, but I don't think it is bad to film a theater release in 16:9.
post #162 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post

Speaking of formats, now that HD 16:9 is established, I cannot understand why anyone would ever film another movie in anything else.

Because movies are shot for theatrical projection, not home viewing. I just can't imagine something like The Hobbit being filmed in 1.78:1.
post #163 of 450
Hi,

The "Play Lop" eliminates some of the action scenes. These were eliminated by design.

The "Retail Loop" does play all the clips and then some....including "Discover" segments and a few calibration instructions as well.

You can go in and select individual scenes as well.


We made the instructions simple. Most people who use this disc are not as savvy as many of the members of the AVS Forum. On screen would have been VERY awkward and very difficult to follow. You can turn the sound off and use the booklet that comes with the disc if you like. That is one reason why we included it.

The scenes on the disc come from several native formats. They are listed under "Specifications" on the back of the package.

Best,

Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

I started playing with my new blu-ray WOW. My initial impressions.
  • I found out that my video is about 3fps late compared to my audio (or my audio is about 125ms early). Unfortunately my receiver does not allow me add a audio delay.
  • I like the clips of Disney movies as I can use it for demos. However Play Loop, for unknown reason, does not play all the clips - wish it did. In a future release of WOW, suggest that either the Loop was just G-rated (don't think Pirates of Caribbean is G-rated), OR they had a G-rated Loop and a PG-rated Loop. Also, I don't understand why the clips are all in 16:9 format and not in the theatrical format.
  • The description of the tests is kind of boring (and slightly talking down to the users). Wish it was printed on the screen during the test instead, perhaps.
More impressions, later, if someone is interested.
post #164 of 450
The Polarity Test was good for me to perform because several pieces of my wiring are either hidden from sight or I can not see whether or not the wire is red or black. I think the test proved that all my speakers are in phase. I think it would be good to have a picture on screen that gave a graphic representation of what in-phase might look like:
Speaker-------SoundSource---------Speaker
and what out of phase might look like:
Speaker------------------------------Speaker
(sound source is indeterminate).
post #165 of 450
Using a PS3 set to full range output and superwhite on, my new Sharp LCD shows above white and below black.

My few year old Sharp and two year old Samsung plasma does not show below black or above white.

Is this to be expected or am I doing something wrong? I tried setting the PS3 to limited range and that did not fix it. I tried changing a bunch of Samsung settings and nothing fixed it.

Also, my old Sharp seems to be 1.6 gamma and it is supposed to be 2.2. I don't see a way to adjust the gamma on the set. Perhaps this is an example of something an ISF calibrator can do that I can't.
post #166 of 450
Note: I also posted this question on the LG xxLD520 thread.

I have recently purchased an entirely new HT system, composed of he following:

LG 47LD520
Denon AVR-1610
Panasonic BDT210
DirecTV

I also purchased the Disney WOW Calibration BD. When using it, it suggested that my Contrast be set to 100 and Brightness to 52. Even with these settings, I cannot get the 'Ideal' white items to completely disappear. My backlight is set at 27 currently. The Contrast setting is obviously high, but it seems to be correct according to the calibration screens. I noticed that my BDP has a Black Level setting, which I set to 'Darker'.

Also, the calibration suggests that I set my Gamma to 'High' to get the 2.2 gamma bar to match the 'gray scale' background. This seems to counter what I have read which suggests you should leave the Gamma at the lowest setting.

Does this sound correct? Has anybody else used Disney WOW to calibrate their 47LD520?

Thanks!
post #167 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post

Note: I also posted this question on the LG xxLD520 thread.

I have recently purchased an entirely new HT system, composed of he following:

LG 47LD520
Denon AVR-1610
Panasonic BDT210
DirecTV

I also purchased the Disney WOW Calibration BD. When using it, it suggested that my Contrast be set to 100 and Brightness to 52. Even with these settings, I cannot get the 'Ideal' white items to completely disappear. My backlight is set at 27 currently. The Contrast setting is obviously high, but it seems to be correct according to the calibration screens. I noticed that my BDP has a Black Level setting, which I set to 'Darker'.

Also, the calibration suggests that I set my Gamma to 'High' to get the 2.2 gamma bar to match the 'gray scale' background. This seems to counter what I have read which suggests you should leave the Gamma at the lowest setting.

Does this sound correct? Has anybody else used Disney WOW to calibrate their 47LD520?

Thanks!

To be honest, I really like the WOW BD for some of the test patterns (black pluge, advanced black level, integrated compound test chart), but there are other things I find it isn't the best at, e.g., setting contrast, sharpness.

Be careful with contrast settings since you're not only concerned with clipping, you have to be concerned with discoloration at high contrast levels as well as having it set too high and causing eye fatigue based on your viewing conditions.

The gamma response pattern may be a good, ROUGH guide to what your display is producing, but it's not useful for setting gamma accurately. I'm afraid you're in professional calibration territory to do that correctly.

Also, be careful about choosing the 'dark' setting for source components unless you know for sure that's what it should be set to. Many times it will crush blacks when set to 'dark' and you might be losing shadow detail.

All that said, when I'm doing a final check on things after I do a calibration, I rarely rely on just one test disc (like WOW) because there are things each of the other test discs (DVE, AVS-HD 709, Spears and Munsil) are better at. You have to cross-check to be sure.

By all means, have some fun with set up discs like WOW! They're a great way to learn about this stuff.

Of course, I'm biased, but if you just bought an entire new HT system, my recommendation is to find a professional calibrator to get all the components talking to each other the way they should and have your display give you the best picture it can possibly give you with your current equipment.

Best,
Greg
post #168 of 450
Pixel flipper works fine on my ps3 but not on my panasonic btt350 blu ray player (it gets stuck) any thoughts?
post #169 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

The Pixel Flipper on this disc is NOT encoded noise. It is an actual BD Java Application that takes control of each pixel and turns them on and off individually. Make sure you update your firmware on your player. The Pixel Flipper was tested with a variety of players.

Please update your firmware and if you are still having issues, then please provide us with the player make and model you are having issues with and we can test it.

best,

Rich

having problem with this on a panasonic btt350...firmware is updated works fine on a ps3
post #170 of 450
If the WOW BD does not have a useful "Sharpness" pattern, then which alternate calibration dvd is recommended?
post #171 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by chodalad View Post


having problem with this on a panasonic btt350...firmware is updated works fine on a ps3

I have a Panasonic BDT100 and wondered what was going on. The image looks frozen on the screen and then after a few minutes I see a small (I'd guess 1/2 inch by 1 inch rectangle) in the upper left corner start moving slowly across the screen flipping pixels. The rest of my 64" plasma did not appear to be changing even when I put my nose to the screen. I worried about leaving the image static on my screen for any amount of time before checking that this is right. I should have checked it on my PS3 to see if there was a difference. Will do so tomorrow.

Thanks. Btw, my Blu Ray Player has the latest firmware.
post #172 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by dendog88 View Post

If the WOW BD does not have a useful "Sharpness" pattern, then which alternate calibration dvd is recommended?

Although I typically use the sharpness pattern on my QD 780 (it has a small, square box with two diagonal lines that can easily be seen in its entirety up close to the display), I think the patterns available on the Spears and Munsil BD or DVE BD are fine. I think you can more easily discern the exact point where the sharpness control begins adding 'extra' information to the image by looking at the horizontal and vertical lines as you slowly change the sharpness setting.

You should realize, though, that there are some HDTVs on which the sharpness control does pretty much nothing, so you may not see a change if that's the case.

In those HDTVs that have a sharpness control that actually does something, as you raise the sharpness control higher you will see extra pixels around the outside of the lines that weren't there before. Turn the sharpness down slowly until those extra lines just disappear and all your left with is the lines themselves.

Best,
Greg
post #173 of 450
Not sure where you heard about the Sharpness patterns being useless. That is not the case. All patterns have been tested and certified by industry professionals.

This response from an AVS Member may be helpful to you. I refrain from offering tech advice or commentary that is not from 3rd parties these days.

All I try to do is keep the spread of misinformation to a minimum...which is impossible in any forum, really....but I still try..

The product works as advertised and is targeted to mainstream consumer and enthusiasts yet is still very useful in the hands of a pro. The patterns are reference quality. However, I suggest those that want something better go for an ISF Class or hire an ISF Calibration Professional if you want something better than what a Calibration Disc can provide. A course is $1,800 and you can get a good deal on ISF Calibration from Best Buy who often has this service "On Sale" anywhere from $200 to $300.

Rich Casey
Executive Producer, Producer, & Director
DIsney WOW - World fo Wonder
-----------------------------------------------

SHARPNESS

rdgrimes
Addicted Member

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 10,650


Sharpness 101:

Sharpness adjustments technically have no place in digital video, it's a throwback to analog video. In their infinite wisdom, TV marketing types have decided that a TV MUST have a sharpness control to be perceived as "complete". In reality, on an HDMI input it shouldn't do anything. That said, it's true that many TVs employ a variety of tricks to get the sharpness controls to do something visible, including EE with or without DNR and a few other things. There are also examples of TVs where the sharpness controls do nothing at all. So at best it does nothing and at worst it does harm to the image in most cases. That said, it's also true that some TVs, especially PJs, may produce something acceptable with careful and minimal use of a sharpness adjustment. For this reason, sharpness patterns can be employed from the various calibrations discs to check and see what the TV actually does with that adjustment. But it's a certainty that no 2 TVs will be equal in the effects. And in more cases than not it should be at "0" for the cleanest image.
__________________
Oppo Beta Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by dendog88 View Post
If the WOW BD does not have a useful "Sharpness" pattern, then which alternate calibration dvd is recommended?
post #174 of 450
Every sharpness pattern I've ever used has responded to the sharpness controls on my Epson 6100 and my Sanyo Z4 (the only one I haven't tried is the S&M disc).

Except, the WOW disc. I can crank the sharpness to maximum, see really ugly EE on all images from Blu-ray to TV broadcasts, yet when I put up the WOW pattern....nothing. I cannot produce the artifacts WOW says I should see when I use their sharpness pattern with my Sharpness set too high.

With all other patterns I've tried, halo city. With WOW... nothing. All the other WOW patterns work as advertised, and work beautifully. I cannot use the WOW pattern to set sharpness...with every othe disk I've used, I can.

EDIT: I wouldn't recommend Best Buy as a source for proper calibration either.
post #175 of 450
I have had no problems getting my LG 47LD520 to show the anticipated results using the WoW Sharpness pattern. I can also see changes on the AVS HD709 Sharpness pattern.

Just my experience.
post #176 of 450
Ours as well. Thank you for the post.

Some HDTV Sets make use of the control differently than others. Some make
almost imperceptible changes while others allow more of an adjustment range.

Either way, I defer to the post made by another member about the concept of even having a sharpness control on HDTV Panels.

The same applies to Contrast Settings. Several manufacturers are moving to placing the 100% Contrast Setting in the Menu at White Clip...which means that 100% Contrast is OK ... because it is not clipping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post
I have had no problems getting my LG 47LD520 to show the anticipated results using the WoW Sharpness pattern. I can also see changes on the AVS HD709 Sharpness pattern.

Just my experience.
post #177 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

Some HDTV Sets make use of the control differently than others. Some make
almost imperceptible changes while others allow more of an adjustment range.

My Epson 6100 has a Standard Sharpness control, and a Advanced Sharpness control. Within the Advanced Sharpness control, there are four controls...Thin Line Enhancement, Thick Line Enhancement, Vertical Line Enhancement and Horizontal Enhancement.

The changes they make are immediately and extremely perceptible on every Sharpness pattern I have...DVE, Avia, Get Gray, and AVSHD. In fact, if I turn up my sharpness high enough, I can make the Star Chart on the AVSHD disk look like a Mandelbrot set.

With these disks, setting sharpness is easy. In fact, I can set sharpness to a level where halos are visible on all four disks, then with these settings, switch to the WOW disk and see no artifacts whatsoever.

Again, I'm not trying to bash the WOW disk. The rest of the patterns work exactly as they should. The explanations are quite thorough and the demo material is extensive. My only problem is with the sharpness pattern.
post #178 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

The changes they make are immediately and extremely perceptible on every Sharpness pattern I have...DVE, Avia, Get Gray, and AVSHD. In fact, if I turn up my sharpness high enough, I can make the Star Chart on the AVSHD disk look like a Mandelbrot set.

With these disks, setting sharpness is easy. In fact, I can set sharpness to a level where halos are visible on all four disks, then with these settings, switch to the WOW disk and see no artifacts whatsoever.

Do any of the disk have the single pixel wide X pattern in a light field? The ISF guy that did my projector had this pattern on his media server and it was very easy to see the change, one click high or low showed up very well.
post #179 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Do any of the disk have the single pixel wide X pattern in a light field? The ISF guy that did my projector had this pattern on his media server and it was very easy to see the change, one click high or low showed up very well.

Not one like you describe. The patterns on DVE, Avia, Get Grey and AVSHD work very well though.
post #180 of 450
I know this is a weird question, but what Color Temp should my HDTV be on when I'm calibrating it with Disney WoW? My HDTV's Color Temp Options are Cool, Neutral, Warm 1, and Warm 2.
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