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Need advise on wiring

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I recently realized that I have 1 overloaded 15a 16/3 circuit (htpc,receiver,br player,dish receiver,power amp) totaling 2640 watts. The 2nd 16/3 15a circuit into my room has a dedicated projector outlet drawing only 290 max.

I have a simple option of transferring the dedicated pj line to a dedicated power amp line. This would create a load of 1500w max on the dedicated line, and 1430 (total) on the equipment line.

I've also been fighting a ground loop thats introduced through the pj hdmi ground when its plugged into the receiver. I'd like to try to address that while I'm reworking the electrical.

Could my ground loop be caused by the current unbalanced loads on the 2 circuits tied together by the hdmi ground?
I can also go to 12ga/20amp if that would be advised, but I'd like to avoid that if not necessary. The 2 breakers available are on top of each other in the sub panel, so I dont quite get where the loop is coming from.

I could sure use some advice on a new configuration. All wiring and breakers can be changed in both circuits if thats what it takes. Any help?
post #2 of 10
unplug the satellite coax cable and see if the ground loop goes away.
post #3 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExToker View Post

I recently realized that I have 1 overloaded 15a 16/3 circuit (htpc,receiver,br player,dish receiver,power amp) totaling 2640 watts. The 2nd 16/3 15a circuit into my room has a dedicated projector outlet drawing only 290 max.

You don't really have a 15 amp circuit wired with 16 gauge wire, do you? And why three conductors? What does the third wire connect to? Are you sharing a neutral between two circuits on a multi-wire branch circuit?
post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExToker View Post

I recently realized that I have 1 overloaded 15a 16/3 circuit (htpc,receiver,br player,dish receiver,power amp) totaling 2640 watts. The 2nd 16/3 15a circuit into my room has a dedicated projector outlet drawing only 290 max.

I have a simple option of transferring the dedicated pj line to a dedicated power amp line. This would create a load of 1500w max on the dedicated line, and 1430 (total) on the equipment line.

At a minimum I would do this. However, 1500 watts is still almost 14A. I would recommend installing a 12/2 (20A) circuit for all your gear and leave the PJ on it's own 15A line.

I've also been fighting a ground loop thats introduced through the pj hdmi ground when its plugged into the receiver. I'd like to try to address that while I'm reworking the electrical

Could my ground loop be caused by the current unbalanced loads on the 2 circuits tied together by the hdmi ground?
I can also go to 12ga/20amp if that would be advised, but I'd like to avoid that if not necessary. The 2 breakers available are on top of each other in the sub panel, so I dont quite get where the loop is coming from.

I could sure use some advice on a new configuration. All wiring and breakers can be changed in both circuits if thats what it takes. Any help?

First, I assume you mean 14/2? You can't use (Unless you are using speaker or DC wire, 16AWG romex, THHN or BX isn't made) anything less than 14 AWG for a 15A circuit.
Also, Unless you are using SO cord (similar to an extension cord) the "3rd" conductor in a 14/2 romex or BX wire is the ground (and not counted in the 14/2, only the black and white.) 14/3 or 12/3 refers to having 2 or 3 current carrying conductors (line & neutral) Plus a ground.

How are you measuring the 2640 watts? That equals 24A (2640w/110v=24a) I would imagine your breaker would be tripping constantly if this was the actual load.

Either way, just adding the numbers on the back of the equipment, you are right, that line is overloaded!

How old is the existing wiring? Chances are you have a bad/loose ground somewhere...
I would also recommend first pulling the sat cable, as Big already pointed out.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thanks Gang,

I realized the '16/3' typo as I drove away this morning after my post, and before coffee.

Beemer is right on. Wire is 3 year old 14/2 romex. I could never shake the habit of calling the romex ground the '3rd wire' without having to think about it. The '16' was from running speaker wire in another room this weekend. Bad on all fronts!

Also correct in that I totaled max power consumption off of all of the components. The power amp will likely never hit max output of 1500w, nor the receiver with the onboard amps not being used.
The fact that its (the power amp) plugged into the circuit containing all but one of the other components is reason enough to change things around.
Matter of fact, the breaker never tripped once, so you can tell how lightly I drive it.

I think I should be OK with leaving the 2 - 14/2 15amps. Just rerouting for the amp to run solo on one line.
The coax is a non-factor because I havent even plugged it in to the system yet. I have an out for that if its a problem.

The ground loop results from the combination of the receiver, amp on one circuit and the pj grounding through the Hdmi ground (to the receiver) on the other. Its not present between the receiver and PJ only, leaving the amp out of the mix.

Given the fact that the receiver and PJ are still on seperate circuits, I was wondering that, once the amplifier is introduced, a ground loop can be created from the substantial imbalanced load in the 2 circuits by the heavily loaded circuit pulling/pushing through the hdmi?

How do I balance the ground between the 2 circuits though? The breakers are stacked on the same bus, if I didnt relay that any better in my 'morning fog' on the OP

Thanks again for your help.
post #6 of 10
Glad to hear they don't wire houses with 16awg over there

It sounds like you would be OK with 2 15A circuits, but I don't know if I would do it personally. I like knowing that I just can't pop the breaker (I ran 4 20A and 1 15A to my rack) Yes I know, overkill! But I figured that since I had to run at least 1 new circuit......

Have you tried plugging the PJ and AVR into the same circuit? Better yet I would try the same outlet to be sure. Just make sure you use a grounded extension cord to make sure that is the issue.
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hey Beemer,

I dont listen at head banging volumes anymore, and the numbers are max, so I'm good with the 15a for now. I'll take the easy route as the 2 lines are exposed in the joists so it will be pretty simple to switch the dedicated circuit.

Before I do that though, you were close to a thought I had last night. I will run an extension cord from the pj to the same outlet that the avr and amp are on. The projector doesnt need to be turned on to initiate the ground loop, just plugged in.
At least I'll know then if its a wiring or a equipment issue.

Thanks
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Update,
If anyone is interested I thought I would share the result on my circuit switch/ground loop project.

I played hookey from work this afternoon and spent an hour and a half switching the circuits. When I flipped the breakers back on, the ground loop hum is gone and I am enveloped in blissful silence.

As mentioned earlier, the project was primarily for safety.
Possibly the loop may have been caused by the imbalanced loads on the 2 circuits, trying to equalize through the hdmi cable?
I'm obviously no pro, especially where electrical is concerned, so all I can do is share what I did and share the wonderful results
post #9 of 10
I'm not really even sure what you did to solve the problem. Did you just swap circuits? That is, did you just put the amp and receiver on the PJ circuit, and put the PJ on the amp/avr circuit? How did that eliminate the ground loop?

I have a small amount of hum through my amp. It's worse on Ch4 than any other. And a little on Ch5. I assume that since it's not coming through Ch1-3 that it's an amp issue and not a ground loop issue.

But I'd be curious to hear specifically what you did.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why the loop is gone. I could only speculate on that.
Heres the best way I can show what I had, and what I changed. Good fortune had both lines running directly above the cabinet.

Before:
Line 1 - Subpanel -----------> Projector (dedicated)
Line 2- Subpanel ------------> Component Cabinet (Power amp, Avr,Htpc etc.)

After

Line 1 - Subpanel ------------ Power amp (cut line and added box) (dedicated)

Line 2 - Subpanel ----------->Component (AVR, Htpc, etc) (added existing line to pj into this outlet) ----------> Projector

This safely balances the load between the 2 circuits. The elimination of the ground loop was a huge bonus. In my laymans mind, I can only assume the circuit with the heavy load was bleeding through to the much lighter circuit through the Hdmi ground.
Again, just uneducated speculation. If this was the case it would be pretty cool to know.
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