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Kinect + Projector environment: Cord length = Fail

post #1 of 68
11/4/10 at 8:28am
Thread Starter 
Kinect requires space, so I figured my projector room would be the ideal spot for this gadget.

I'd love to install it above my center speaker on the floor, unfortunately the USB cable length is way too short... and current 3rd party extenders (non microsoft) cause lag and I'm not spending any more $$$ to verify this.

Microsoft is releasing a 50$ 10ft extension (still quite short) on Nov. 14th... so waiting a bit is a good idea unless you are a tech nut like me lol. A 20ft + extension would allow users to conceal the cable and avoid a bee line obstrusive cable between your console and viewing area. Microsoft compatible third party cables will surely fill the gap in the months to come. Meanwhile I'm handicapped with this makeshift setup lol

BTW... this is 2010 and WII remotes don't require cabling ?!. Wifi enabled Kinect wouldn't have enough bandwidth ?. Initial verdict: cool, rushed and premature.
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post #2 of 68
11/4/10 at 8:45am
You should only need USB extension which you can get anywhere. Don't you have any power plug near the screen?
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post #3 of 68
11/4/10 at 9:04am
Thread Starter 
Kinect is powered directly by the USB cable and the power adaptor provided with the Kinect is configured to connect near the XBOX console (original) which happens to be far from the screen. For XBOX (slim version), no power adaptor is required as the current is supplied to the cable by the XBOX (slim).

I'll go back to Best Buy and try out a regular USB extension cable as you suggest... worth a try
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post #4 of 68
11/4/10 at 9:08am
Good thing I have my equipment in front of my room so this will not be an issue for me....

That said do you stand infront of the projector where the projector will be in kinect's field of view? In one of the videos they mentioned having consistent lighting and I am a bit worried because right now where I want to stand to play kinect the projector will likely be in the field of view. If you do does the blinding light from the projector affect kinect?
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post #5 of 68
11/4/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

Good thing I have my equipment in front of my room so this will not be an issue for me....

That said do you stand infront of the projector where the projector will be in kinect's field of view? In one of the videos they mentioned having consistent lighting and I am a bit worried because right now where I want to stand to play kinect the projector will likely be in the field of view. If you do does the blinding light from the projector affect kinect?

The problem with backlighting is that it will have a hard time recognizing you. (as in your face) But it should not matter much with motion recognition.
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post #6 of 68
11/4/10 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

Good thing I have my equipment in front of my room so this will not be an issue for me....

That said do you stand infront of the projector where the projector will be in kinect's field of view? In one of the videos they mentioned having consistent lighting and I am a bit worried because right now where I want to stand to play kinect the projector will likely be in the field of view. If you do does the blinding light from the projector affect kinect?

No but...

I went through the Kinect setup and the active Kinect play zone is fairly close to the kinect (max 2.5 meters). Using Kinect in a projector environment requires you to set up an awkward 5'x5' zone that doesn't interfere with the projected video.

Also, your face needs to be illuminated for .... facial recognition and automated log in. This cannot be effectively done in a dedicated low light projector room.

As far as I'm concerned, this project just hit the farm lol

Optimal setup: 1080p LCD flat screen display in lit room, XBOX slim version to avoid extra messy wiring and kinect all connected in the same area.
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post #7 of 68
11/4/10 at 2:11pm
Ultimately it was a fail for me with my projector because it involves me getting too close to the screen so I'm blocking its path. I'm going to have to set it up in the living room instead which it will work just fine in.
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post #8 of 68
11/4/10 at 2:33pm
This is the first thing that crossed my mind. In my HT, my components, including the XBOX 360, are behind the seating. For some reason I thought the Kinect would connect wirelessly to the 360 (At least to send data, with perhaps AC power cord of its own), (and I figured I'd be able to place the Kinect box in the front of my HT by the screen, but that would put it about 18 feet away from the seating).

But no, it has to be connected to the 360 via USB, which means long cable(s).

And then consistent lighting is needed, so when my Kinect faces the seating, it will get the light from the PJ smack dab into it (PJ is mounted on top of audio tier that contains components).

Seems like Kinect was not designed at all with HT rooms in mind. I guess that is okay since we are a small segment, but still sucks.
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post #9 of 68
11/4/10 at 3:42pm
I don't get the "blinding light of the pj" stuff in this thread. I assume you would mount the kinect above or below the screen, not in the middle of the screen where the pj would be shining directly into the lens and the sensor would block the screen.
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post #10 of 68
11/4/10 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flatus View Post

I don't get the "blinding light of the pj" stuff in this thread. I assume you would mount the kinect above or below the screen, not in the middle of the screen where the pj would be shining directly into the lens and the sensor would block the screen.

True, but don't forget the Kinect tilts up and down automatically, so if it's below your screen, but then tilts up, it might get blasted by the projector.

I know when I'm up by the screen - even down low, and look up, it's bright.

Doesn't seem to be an issue from early reports though... I just need to solve the cable length issue. Working on it...
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post #11 of 68
11/4/10 at 6:15pm
To add to this thread... miserable experience. My lighting wasn't enough, so we brought a lamp in and put it next to the screen to shine on us for facial recognition. More annoyingly though, the Kinect always wants you to stand in a position where (in my setup) your head or body is blocking the projector's beam.

I'm going to brainstorm solutions, but I'm not even sure it's worth it at the moment. The games weren't even fun enough to warrant the extra hassle
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post #12 of 68
11/4/10 at 7:07pm
Just to give the opposite experience.... my system has performed flawlessly. It is looking straight into the projector and still works perfectly.
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post #13 of 68
11/5/10 at 8:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airkat View Post

To add to this thread... miserable experience. My lighting wasn't enough, so we brought a lamp in and put it next to the screen to shine on us for facial recognition. More annoyingly though, the Kinect always wants you to stand in a position where (in my setup) your head or body is blocking the projector's beam.

I'm going to brainstorm solutions, but I'm not even sure it's worth it at the moment. The games weren't even fun enough to warrant the extra hassle

Exact same experience, I'm not wasting any more time on the HT projector setup for the Kinect. Space requirements for it to work in a projector environment are too high for me. I figure Jagouar has at least 400 square feet available


However, I moved the Kinect setup to living room with the LCD flat screen:

One word... awesome !
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post #14 of 68
11/5/10 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybonerd View Post

Exact same experience, I'm not wasting any more time on the HT projector setup for the Kinect. Space requirements for it to work in a projector environment are too high for me. I figure Jagouar has at least 40 square feet available


However, I moved the Kinect setup to living room with the LCD flat screen:

One word... awesome !

going to have to try it this weekend
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post #15 of 68
11/10/10 at 2:20pm
So I'm curious... I put my Kinect below my screen and have no issues whatsoever with the projector blinding it. However I too hate the cable run. I put one USB extension on it and it works fine but I need at least another 20 ft and when I try to daisy chain more it fails.

Does anyone know if putting a long USB Active Booster Extension Cable in the line would work? Or I wonder if some sort of USB hub to boost the power.

I love the Kinect, just gotta find a way to run the cables through the walls and hide them. Any insight you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
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post #16 of 68
11/10/10 at 11:23pm
When it comes to the Kinect, it's so not theater room friendly. Extending it won't work, even with additional power, as the spec limits the cable length. Some people have been able to successfully extend with simple devices (keyboards, mice) - but anything with any real amount of data fails. MS also said hubs will not work with the Kinect, limiting our options even more. I don't believe we'll come up with a "tidy" solution (As our projector/360 is 28' from the screen) - I'm thinking of running a heavy gauge HDMI cable to the screen, and having a second 360 just for when we want to do kinect things - but it seems a bit of overkill. (I'll be making a thread shortly to see if someone can help me come up with some ideas for a solution.)

Good luck bud, sounds like we'll need it.
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post #17 of 68
11/11/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouldrinK View Post

When it comes to the Kinect, it's so not theater room friendly. Extending it won't work, even with additional power, as the spec limits the cable length.

It's working just fine for me. I'm using this Monoprice Active USB extension from Amazon and I have *zero* lag. It's 32' - double what the spec says it's supposed to go.

Actually, I guess it's even a bit longer than that when you add in Kinect's own cable length. Like I say - no problems at all.

I've seen several others reporting the same using the same cable. No extra power, no hub - just the 32' extension.

I was nervous on whether it was going to work, but my Kinect power supply finally showed up yesterday so I got a chance to try it out - and it worked great!

I'd still like another 20' or so if I really wanna conceal this. Monoprice lists two other cables - 50' and 60' I think - but both of those are currently out of stock. As soon as they're back, I'll be ordering up the 50' one.
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post #18 of 68
11/12/10 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_In_FL View Post

It's working just fine for me. I'm using this Monoprice Active USB extension from Amazon and I have *zero* lag. It's 32' - double what the spec says it's supposed to go.

Actually, I guess it's even a bit longer than that when you add in Kinect's own cable length. Like I say - no problems at all.

I've seen several others reporting the same using the same cable. No extra power, no hub - just the 32' extension.

I was nervous on whether it was going to work, but my Kinect power supply finally showed up yesterday so I got a chance to try it out - and it worked great!

I'd still like another 20' or so if I really wanna conceal this. Monoprice lists two other cables - 50' and 60' I think - but both of those are currently out of stock. As soon as they're back, I'll be ordering up the 50' one.

I got the monoprice USB extender over Cat-6 connectors. Allows me to actually use one of the ethernet network ports near my screen to route the usb to my equipment closet. Using Cat-6 you can also make your cables however long they need to be...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #19 of 68
11/12/10 at 10:15am
Update on my search. I picked up the IOGear USB 2.0 Active Boost Extension (39 feet)

And it's working beautifully. I only needed about 40', so this is good enough for me with the 6' on the Kinect. I have read of others having success with Active extensions like mine then dropping a hub to jump another.

Good luck. I solved my issue, I'm sure you'll all find a solution.
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post #20 of 68
11/12/10 at 11:15pm
Folks, I have the OLD xbox, which means I have the power supply for the Kinect. I assumed that since it is POWERED I would not need the Active Extension cable. So I bought a regular 32ft extension (no active repeater).

DOES NOT WORK

Light comes on, but it goes back off and the xbox hangs, waiting on it. Cant really talk to the device. Works find without the exension.

So the question is, do I need a higher quality cable? This one is not shielded but does have ferrite ends. OR, do I in fact need the Active repeater type cable?

Bottom line:
Does anyone have the OLD xbox working on 30+ feet, and what cable type do you have?
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post #21 of 68
11/13/10 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post
I got the monoprice USB extender over Cat-6 connectors. Allows me to actually use one of the ethernet network ports near my screen to route the usb to my equipment closet. Using Cat-6 you can also make your cables however long they need to be...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
You got them, but have you tried them? And how long of a run? I read elsewhere these aren't working.
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post #22 of 68
11/13/10 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachslayer View Post

So the question is, do I need a higher quality cable? This one is not shielded but does have ferrite ends. OR, do I in fact need the Active repeater type cable?

Bottom line:
Does anyone have the OLD xbox working on 30+ feet, and what cable type do you have?

Yeah, you definitely need one of the Active USB extensions <- that's the link to the 32' one that I got from Amazon (made by Monoprice).

It works for both my S console and my older 360 Pro.

The power supply that you are plugging in for the Kinect is to drive the motors inside of Kinect - not to feed the cable that goes back to the 360. That's why you need the active usb.
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post #23 of 68
11/13/10 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

I got the monoprice USB extender over Cat-6 connectors. Allows me to actually use one of the ethernet network ports near my screen to route the usb to my equipment closet. Using Cat-6 you can also make your cables however long they need to be...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by roachslayer View Post

You got them, but have you tried them? And how long of a run? I read elsewhere these aren't working.

Same question here - can you confirm that you're using them for Kinect? I was looking at these but decided to hold off because even on the Monoprice site they say: "Does not support USB 2.0 high speed connections.".

If it is indeed working, that'd be great news!
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post #24 of 68
11/13/10 at 9:20am
Marc, thanks for your last 2 posts. I will definitely get the right thing ordered. Active is required no matter the setup, got it.

Note: the CAT6 adapters specifically say USB 1.1 even though monoprice screwed up in posting them in the 2.0 category. I doubt they work.
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post #25 of 68
11/13/10 at 10:16am
For the record, Monoprice has the same 32ft cable Amazon is selling, but for half the price:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

It looks exactly the same, but I guess one cannot be super certain. I ordered it, and will let ya'll know.
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post #26 of 68
11/13/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachslayer View Post

For the record, Monoprice has the same 32ft cable Amazon is selling, but for half the price:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

It looks exactly the same, but I guess one cannot be super certain. I ordered it, and will let ya'll know.

Yeah - that's the same one. The one I got from Amazon was in a Monoprice package!

One thing I've been noticing over the past week, is that different vendors are selling that same Monoprice cable on Amazon so the price keeps fluctuating. It was $12.95 when I got it last week - still a few bucks higher than Monoprice, but having Amazon Prime I was able to get it 2nd day shipping for free.
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post #27 of 68
11/13/10 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachslayer View Post

You got them, but have you tried them? And how long of a run? I read elsewhere these aren't working.

Ack. Well, when I hooked it up it recognized the device. Admittedly, I stopped there because I had other things to address. In fact these do not work. Monoprice needs to move them out of the USB 2 Adapter area.
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post #28 of 68
11/13/10 at 2:25pm
I have my sensor on the Right Channel speaker and I stand to the left side of the screen, that way the cone of projected light passes right between us. It's too dark for face recognition but I'm always logged in anyway so that doesn't matter. Works great, and I'm in a small room.
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post #29 of 68
11/14/10 at 8:13am
Has anyone successfully used a usb over cat5 extender for Kinect?
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post #30 of 68
11/14/10 at 4:10pm
Oh man don't give up! Whole family has been having a blast with Kinect with on a 132" 16:9 AT screen with a Panny AE3000 projector.

We're setup using the lenseshift almost maxium to one side. This allows us to stand right in front of the screen with no/very little shadow problems.

We've had the room very dark. If you read the tear down on iFixit you'll see it has several IR sources. I assume this is to see in the dark. It seems to be working great.

Ken
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