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The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 108

post #3211 of 3979
12/12/12 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

Not sure why I’m asking this as it’s too late to change it. I’m remodeling my room after a flood (closing it in) and I’ll be putting my 15H under a DIY rack enclosure. It will sit on isolation pads and then on top of a MDF board with rubber wheels attached to I can move the sub if necessary.

The pictures below shows the space its going in. Since it’s forward firing and ported I assumed there wouldn’t be an issue with it enclosed like that. There will be an acoustic cloth frame covering the front (enclosure will be vented).

I thought I had a more recent one but here it is during framing:


Stand:


If the wheeled stand/platform is no good I could just put those furniture moving pucks under the isolation feet?

Other people will know more than I but if it's enclosed wouldn't it make sub act like it's in a bigger cabinet?
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post #3212 of 3979
12/12/12 at 8:50am
something i'm confused about...if someone could answer or point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it. tests of this sub prove that the low frequency extension for the vtf-15h will go below 20hz. but compared to many other subs (for instance fv-15hp or pb12-plus dsp), it won't play the notes with as much authority. since you will only feel bass notes that deep (rather than hearing them) and the other subs play the notes with that extra bit of umph, how is it possible that the vtf-15h rumbles the couch more than the others? several reviewers have noted that the in-couch rumble is more evident, but nobody could explain why or how. anyone feel free to chime in, thanks
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post #3213 of 3979
12/12/12 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Other people will know more than I but if it's enclosed wouldn't it make sub act like it's in a bigger cabinet?

It's not totally enclosed the front will be an acoustical fabric (GOM) door so the ports and woofer are not obstructed. My assumption was that since there was no obstruction on the front and the space will be ventilated by fans it should be alright.

If nothing else I'll find out in a month or two.
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post #3214 of 3979
12/12/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg963 View Post

something i'm confused about...if someone could answer or point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it. tests of this sub prove that the low frequency extension for the vtf-15h will go below 20hz. but compared to many other subs (for instance fv-15hp or pb12-plus dsp), it won't play the notes with as much authority. since you will only feel bass notes that deep (rather than hearing them) and the other subs play the notes with that extra bit of umph, how is it possible that the vtf-15h rumbles the couch more than the others? several reviewers have noted that the in-couch rumble is more evident, but nobody could explain why or how. anyone feel free to chime in, thanks

Mine has never rattled anything. My home was built in 2007 and is pretty solid so maybe that is it. I don't have shelves with items on them in my theater room but I do have pictures on the walls. I feel the bass moving across the floor and through the room but nothing rattles and my windows don't rattle.

Maybe Audyssey has tamed it too much.
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post #3215 of 3979
12/12/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

It's not totally enclosed the front will be an acoustical fabric (GOM) door so the ports and woofer are not obstructed. My assumption was that since there was no obstruction on the front and the space will be ventilated by fans it should be alright.
If nothing else I'll find out in a month or two.

You are correct, the driver still sees the same enclosure, however what is unknown if that will be a good location for bass and you will know with further testing in a month or two.smile.gif
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post #3216 of 3979
12/12/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Going to NJ? on purpose? eek.gif

Family...

Lived there for 40 years. Stupid BRAC moved me out! =(
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post #3217 of 3979
12/12/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg963 View Post

something i'm confused about...if someone could answer or point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it. tests of this sub prove that the low frequency extension for the vtf-15h will go below 20hz. but compared to many other subs (for instance fv-15hp or pb12-plus dsp), it won't play the notes with as much authority. since you will only feel bass notes that deep (rather than hearing them) and the other subs play the notes with that extra bit of umph, how is it possible that the vtf-15h rumbles the couch more than the others? several reviewers have noted that the in-couch rumble is more evident, but nobody could explain why or how. anyone feel free to chime in, thanks

Mine has never rattled anything. My home was built in 2007 and is pretty solid so maybe that is it. I don't have shelves with items on them in my theater room but I do have pictures on the walls. I feel the bass moving across the floor and through the room but nothing rattles and my windows don't rattle.

Maybe Audyssey has tamed it too much.

My place is not so solid so I occasionally get things moving and even feel it through the couch. There are a number of factors involved. How loud you play your system, if you run your sub hot, sub settings, source material, etc. When I want to show off my system I'll play the scene near the beginning of Ratatouille in the little old lady's house when she chases Remy and his brother around shooting at them with a shotgun and then the ceiling falls with the chandelier and the rat colony, the THX trailer after the closing credits of Avatar and a couple of scenes from Taken.
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post #3218 of 3979
12/12/12 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Mine has never rattled anything. My home was built in 2007 and is pretty solid so maybe that is it. I don't have shelves with items on them in my theater room but I do have pictures on the walls. I feel the bass moving across the floor and through the room but nothing rattles and my windows don't rattle.
Maybe Audyssey has tamed it too much.

Well it could be my volume and the fact that I don't run it very hot. I rarely listen above level 55 out of 98. Audyssey set it at -2.5db and I have pushed it to +1.
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post #3219 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

You are correct, the driver still sees the same enclosure, however what is unknown if that will be a good location for bass and you will know with further testing in a month or two.smile.gif

Yes, there will be no sub crawl for optimal location. smile.gif

Settings will just have to be tweaked as best as possible for the location its in. It's midway down the left wall of a 1300 cu. ft. space so filling the room shouldn't be an issue.

I previously had it in the center of the screenwall, to be honest I doubt I'd know what an optimal placement would sound like anyway.
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post #3220 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

Yes, there will be no sub crawl for optimal location. smile.gif
Settings will just have to be tweaked as best as possible for the location its in. It's midway down the left wall of a 1300 cu. ft. space so filling the room shouldn't be an issue.
I previously had it in the center of the screenwall, to be honest I doubt I'd know what an optimal placement would sound like anyway.


I think that's silly anyhow. Bass is supposed to go out in all directions. The sub goes where I want it. My room isn't going to tell me where to put it. If it doesn't work where I put it then it just doesn't work. If I buy a tv, it goes where I think it should go and I listen to it where it is.
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post #3221 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I think that's silly anyhow. Bass is supposed to go out in all directions. The sub goes where I want it. My room isn't going to tell me where to put it. If it doesn't work where I put it then it just doesn't work. If I buy a tv, it goes where I think it should go and I listen to it where it is.

An 80hz wavelength is 14 feet long, and 20hz is over 56 feet long. Once you transition the below the Schroeder frequency, the frequency response is room dominated. A subwoofers frequency response is dictated by position of sub and seats, and frequency response is known to correlate with sound quality.

Here is one explanation, there are many available.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/03/05/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
Edited by Luke Kamp - 12/12/12 at 2:32pm
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post #3222 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg963 View Post

something i'm confused about...if someone could answer or point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it. tests of this sub prove that the low frequency extension for the vtf-15h will go below 20hz. but compared to many other subs (for instance fv-15hp or pb12-plus dsp), it won't play the notes with as much authority. since you will only feel bass notes that deep (rather than hearing them) and the other subs play the notes with that extra bit of umph, how is it possible that the vtf-15h rumbles the couch more than the others? several reviewers have noted that the in-couch rumble is more evident, but nobody could explain why or how. anyone feel free to chime in, thanks

'it won't play the notes with as much authority' - is that your own observation, or are you quoting some online review? If it's a case of what one hears versus what one feels, one possible explanation is the 15H produces more fundamental resulting in more shaking, but less of the audible harmonics (and hence play the notes with less audible authority). Another possible reason is the larger ports on the 15H means less deep bass compression at higher levels compared to some of the other subs.
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post #3223 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

Yes, there will be no sub crawl for optimal location. smile.gif
Settings will just have to be tweaked as best as possible for the location its in. It's midway down the left wall of a 1300 cu. ft. space so filling the room shouldn't be an issue.
I previously had it in the center of the screenwall, to be honest I doubt I'd know what an optimal placement would sound like anyway.


I think that's silly anyhow. Bass is supposed to go out in all directions. The sub goes where I want it. My room isn't going to tell me where to put it. If it doesn't work where I put it then it just doesn't work. If I buy a tv, it goes where I think it should go and I listen to it where it is.

It's not silly, it's a fact. You would know the best placemnt doing the crawl, seriously. Of course that's up to you. You don't understand the science.
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post #3224 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Other people will know more than I but if it's enclosed wouldn't it make sub act like it's in a bigger cabinet?

No, it will not. It will if the back of the subwoofer cabinet is open to the bigger space. The only thing I would do is to put some fiberglass panels inside the enclosed space.
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post #3225 of 3979
12/12/12 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

An 80hz wavelength is 14 feet long, and 20hz is over 56 feet long. Once you transition the below the Schroeder frequency, the frequency response is room dominated. A subwoofers frequency response is dictated by position of sub and seats, and frequency response is known to correlate with sound quality.
Here is one explanation, there are many available.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/03/05/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1

Bill F posted this awhile back and I found it very helpful:
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm

Folks, understanding the room is just as important as researching what equipment you buy. There are nulls in the room where you are just not going to get impactful bass if you have no placement options, and if you are sitting in a null, you might as well spend less on a subwoofer and buy 2 or more lesser subs to try and get a more even bass response.
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post #3226 of 3979
12/12/12 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I think that's silly anyhow. Bass is supposed to go out in all directions. The sub goes where I want it. My room isn't going to tell me where to put it. If it doesn't work where I put it then it just doesn't work. If I buy a tv, it goes where I think it should go and I listen to it where it is.

It does make a huge difference where you place the sub. Depending on where you place the sub, you can get over 10 dB difference at some frequencies. Do post your room layout so we can make some placement recommendations.
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post #3227 of 3979
12/12/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Bill F posted this awhile back and I found it very helpful:
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm
Folks, understanding the room is just as important as researching what equipment you buy. There are nulls in the room where you are just not going to get impactful bass if you have no placement options, and if you are sitting in a null, you might as well spend less on a subwoofer and buy 2 or more lesser subs to try and get a more even bass response.

Thanks I hadn't seen that before, it has the 1/4 wavelength easy to find. I have used this modecalc before. Also a lot of good info on the site.

http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm

I got my first 15H when they were first released, and later added a second. My frequency response with the single wasn't that impressive in my small odd shaped room open to the rest of the basement. I also have added specular reflection panels and pretty extensive bass trapping with some eq to get me the results I wanted in the frequency response and time domain.

Best placement for me was opposite corners, one up front left corner, one in back right corner. Front sub has more low end extension and rear sub that is closer gives good midbass, together they work great and decent seat to seat response. I get good room gain down low and use minidsp for eq and delay on rear sub for best integration between subs. I adjusted the subwoofer distance in receiver to get best integration with mains. 16hz tune, eq1, q.3 (I like the low bass have measured max output 16hz ~110db) This is the result with center channel.



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post #3228 of 3979
12/12/12 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Thanks I hadn't seen that before, it has the 1/4 wavelength easy to find. I have used this modecalc before. Also a lot of good info on the site.
http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm
I got my first 15H when they were first released, and later added a second. My frequency response with the single wasn't that impressive in my small odd shaped room open to the rest of the basement. I also have added specular reflection panels and pretty extensive bass trapping with some eq to get me the results I wanted in the frequency response and time domain.
Best placement for me was opposite corners, one up front left corner, one in back right corner. Front sub has more low end extension and rear sub that is closer gives good midbass, together they work great and decent seat to seat response. I get good room gain down low and use minidsp for eq and delay on rear sub for best integration between subs. I adjusted the subwoofer distance in receiver to get best integration with mains. 16hz tune, eq1, q.3 (I like the low bass have measured max output 16hz ~110db) This is the result with center channel.

Very impressive... My room is massive, and I am definitely in the hunt for more sources aside from just one sub. One sounds good, but this is AVS, we don't settle for good smile.gif
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post #3229 of 3979
12/12/12 at 9:09pm
Thinking about getting a VHF 15h sub...

Room is 13' by 26'

One open doorway at the very far side and half inch Sheetrock with pink insulation and roxul safe and sound around.

Seating is by the far end ofte room from the doorway. Any recommendation in where to place the sub? Can I get two placement recs because one corner might not fit the vtf15h.
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post #3230 of 3979
12/12/12 at 9:13pm
Please post your room layout. Hard to interpret your description. TV on 13 ft wall? Sitting at the opposite 13 ft wall? If so, use the 15H as and table or if you have some space behind the sofa/chair, place it directly behind the seat.
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post #3231 of 3979
12/13/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

Please post your room layout. Hard to interpret your description. TV on 13 ft wall? Sitting at the opposite 13 ft wall? If so, use the 15H as and table or if you have some space behind the sofa/chair, place it directly behind the seat.

Sorry Dr Hsu. Here is my room layout. If another sub will fit or work better I will consider it (if I can afford it smile.gif )

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post #3232 of 3979
12/13/12 at 10:23am
No apologies needed! I see you have no space for the sub at the listener's end. A 15H between the front left speaker and the center channel will be great.
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post #3233 of 3979
12/13/12 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

No apologies needed! I see you have no space for the sub at the listener's end. A 15H between the front left speaker and the center channel will be great.


Sorry, one more note, the main viewing screen and speakers are all located on the longer wall on the same side as the stair well across from the couches. Will a placement next to the couch onthe long wall work (or perhaps maybe ebhind the sectional wedge if I can squeaze it in there)?

-Evangelo2
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post #3234 of 3979
12/13/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

No, it will not. It will if the back of the subwoofer cabinet is open to the bigger space. The only thing I would do is to put some fiberglass panels inside the enclosed space.

I might have room for 1-2 inches of OC703 or cotton batting more likely. Or I could just not drywall the inside of the enclosure to the height of the sub if that would work? The enclosure walls have R-13 pink insulation currently. I’ll be drywalling this weekend.

Directly above the sub will be a 42” pullout AV rack on slides, from that point up it will be drywall and OSB board.

Below is my floorplan (riser is now 6' so the first row is at 9' or so); the sub will be midway down the left wall firing directly at the side of the first row.

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post #3235 of 3979
12/13/12 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

Sorry, one more note, the main viewing screen and speakers are all located on the longer wall on the same side as the stair well across from the couches. Will a placement next to the couch on the long wall work (or perhaps maybe behind the sectional wedge if I can squeeze it in there)?
-Evangelo2

Oh, the TV is on the long wall! If that is the case, I would prefer to place the sub against the TV wall, between the front right speaker and the center channel. You will have a dip in the deep bass if you have the sub on the listener side.
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post #3236 of 3979
12/13/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

I might have room for 1-2 inches of OC703 or cotton batting more likely. Or I could just not drywall the inside of the enclosure to the height of the sub if that would work? The enclosure walls have R-13 pink insulation currently. I’ll be drywalling this weekend.
Directly above the sub will be a 42” pullout AV rack on slides, from that point up it will be drywall and OSB board.
Below is my floorplan (riser is now 6' so the first row is at 9' or so); the sub will be midway down the left wall firing directly at the side of the first row.

Yes, I would just not drywall the lower section. Middle of the left wall is not exactly optimal, but you do not have much choice! biggrin.gif
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post #3237 of 3979
12/13/12 at 4:26pm
Wanted to say I've been breaking in the sub. I was underwhelmed at first comparing it to my HTiB Onkyo 12" sub. It started to come to life today.
I have it on some Xmas radio station. Mannheim Steamroller came on today and wow I took notice. What a difference a few days of break in makes. I haven't changed any settings out of the box except for volume control I turned up a little under 1/2 way, both ports are still plugged. I know this isn't ideal but we are moving soon so I'm assuming it will sound much different in my new space.
It is kind of funny feeling the charlie brown xmas theme vibrate the floor upstairs.
The main difference I've found is how rich it sounds compared to my Onkyo. It's a clean rich deep sound, not sure how else to describe it.

Any advice on positioning in my new theater? Room is 27' long and 20' wide with an open stairway at the end corner. The image is to scale within an inch. The sub is to scale as well. I was planning on this location top left in image. I plan to buy another if this isn't sufficient however for my needs it should be.

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post #3238 of 3979
12/13/12 at 4:42pm
You should take out both port plugs. I think it will sound best with both ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3. Volume setting sound terribly high. With both ports open, you should not need to set the sub any higher than 9 o'clock. What is the sub out level on the receiver? Did you run any auto calibration?

With the new space, I would try the sub to the left of your equipment rack at the back as well. Will the preferred seat be the first row or second row?
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post #3239 of 3979
12/13/12 at 4:46pm
I want to post a room layout for suggestions but don't exactly know how.

I would appreciate any direction as to how to do this. thanks.
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post #3240 of 3979
12/13/12 at 4:48pm
Id second too high gain. My room is around 5000cuft and my gain is only at 8:30.
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