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The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 122

post #3631 of 5093
Quote:
Thanks man! My buddy that helped me move the subs called me yesterday and was shocked when I told him I was too tired to still connect them. I know that running all the wiring and setting them up will take a few hours, so I want to have plenty of time, and will wait till the weekend.

As for your music issue, is this with all your itunes files, or just Apple lossless? This sounds like a familiar problem for some reason...and I remember at one time their being a skipping issue due to the encoding options that were selected. Also, you are using Airplay for the playback method, correct?

Wow, so you still haven't heard them. I am excited for you to hear the 15H. What kind of avr do you have? Any EQ systems to be ran? I had an Onkyo tx NR 609, when I got my 15h a couple months back, witch only has audyssey 2eq. Very basic version that doesn't EQ under 1000hz, or at least I have read this from all the pros in the audyssey forum. I then got a Denon 3313ci witch has Audyssey multi EQ XT.

I used to have all my iTunes in 256 Kbps or lower on my MacBook Pro using iTunes 11. I just sold it a couple of weeks ago. Never had an issue. I got the Mac mini, quad core 2.3ghz processor, 4gigs ram and have had issues with just apple lossless. I'm not a computer tech by any means but I have a decent understanding of macs. I feel it's an encoding issue as well. I am going to try a few other players out and see if they can do the job, at least for testing purposes. The only thing is that you can't then airplay if not iTunes? I'm not sure.

It's just weird that some CDs will rip fine and others not. Perhaps the ones with the longer songs? So now I have four albums in iTunes all skip free. But only because I went and deleted to skipping songs and re ripped those one at a time. But a guy on the definitive technology forum said he never had an issue and then about a year ago with an update his songs started skipping.

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post #3632 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

The sub IMO is very musical and as for the encodes never had that issue with lossless or the once in a while iTunes 256 bought songs but have friends experience issues with 320kps rips on different players.

This is weird too how some have an issue and some don't. I've got this in the htpc Mac chat forums. (Actually got quite a bit of an attitude for simply voicing what was going on).

Also the sub is amazing for music. Music is important to me which played a part in buying this sub. smile.gif
post #3633 of 5093
I placed my order for the VTF-15 a a few weeks ago and now that the new shipment has arrived, mine is schedule for delivery this Monday. Hooray! It seems like a good time to be a member of the HSU family.

This is going to be the first subwoofer that I have owned and I am very excited. I have been reading some Audyssey forums in preparation for the setup and calibration for this beast. Since everyone in this thread seems to like their current settings I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on where they have set the Low Pass Filter (LPF) for the LFE channel. Most places that I have read say to set the LPF to 120Hz since all the material that has been created should fall below that frequency but there have been other ideas to that thought recently by some well respected individuals.

Mark Seaton
http://www.avsforum.com/u/1362/mark-seaton

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/3400_100#post_23027504

"I personally tend to set the low pass on the LFE channel at 80Hz in most systems by preference. I think many forget that the difference between a 120Hz low pass and an 80Hz low pass is nothing more than a shelving filter. If the low pass is 4th order, the 80Hz filter is about 7dB lower at 100Hz and about 4dB at 80Hz. A 100Hz low pass setting would have about 1/2 that difference. The adjustment has more effect on shaping the LFE track's response than it does on cutting off content. If you're running the subs with a rising response on the low end which blends with the main speakers, experimenting with 80, 100 vs. 120Hz is basically a means to taper the top end of the LFE channel. Setting this lower than 120Hz is not hacking off content any more than setting your sub a few dB hot would destroy a soundtrack."

Roger Dressler
http://www.avsforum.com/u/1461/roger-dressler

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/3000_100#post_22986464

"Back when DTS was making their name with Jurassic Park and Apollo 13 on 35mm film, the LFE bandwidth was 80 Hz. The Dolby Digital codec has a bandlimited LFE channel, and it has a brickwall filter at 120 Hz as a means to protect the LFE channel from higher frequencies (which can still be present even with a 4th-order LPF at 80 Hz). It seems that when films moved from optical to digital delivery, the LFE bandwidth crept up to 120 Hz or maybe even higher (the PCM LFE channel has no inherent response limitation). I suppose it helps less than magnificent subwoofers in "regular" cinemas provide more whomp. But I find that LFE in the 100-120 Hz region is just a lot of boominess that unfortunately too often clouds the deeper bass in the bottom 2 octaves. Setting the LFE filter to 80 Hz does a dandy job of dealing with that boominess IMHO.
In addition, I have found that 5.1 music recordings are not well disciplined in their use of LFE, leading to muddiness that is even more annoying. Again, the 80 Hz LFE filter setting really helps the bass knit together more cohesively."
post #3634 of 5093
80hz for me. At 120 I could pinpoint bass to the corner sometimes .
post #3635 of 5093
Does everyone use 80hz it seems?

Dr. Hsu, I was just reading the setup manual, since I will be using Audyssey this should be set automatically. Do you recommend bypassing that to another preferred setting?
post #3636 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

This is weird too how some have an issue and some don't. I've got this in the htpc Mac chat forums. (Actually got quite a bit of an attitude for simply voicing what was going on).
)

I imagine that any kind of negative Mac talk is strictly prohibited, especially on a Mac forum. Were you on iLounge by any chance? Most people think it is impossible for a Mac to have an issue. Quite the reputation Apple has built itself.
post #3637 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Wow, so you still haven't heard them. I am excited for you to hear the 15H. What kind of avr do you have? Any EQ systems to be ran? I had an Onkyo tx NR 609, when I got my 15h a couple months back, witch only has audyssey 2eq. Very basic version that doesn't EQ under 1000hz, or at least I have read this from all the pros in the audyssey forum. I then got a Denon 3313ci witch has Audyssey multi EQ XT.

I used to have all my iTunes in 256 Kbps or lower on my MacBook Pro using iTunes 11. I just sold it a couple of weeks ago. Never had an issue. I got the Mac mini, quad core 2.3ghz processor, 4gigs ram and have had issues with just apple lossless. I'm not a computer tech by any means but I have a decent understanding of macs. I feel it's an encoding issue as well. I am going to try a few other players out and see if they can do the job, at least for testing purposes. The only thing is that you can't then airplay if not iTunes? I'm not sure.

It's just weird that some CDs will rip fine and others not. Perhaps the ones with the longer songs? So now I have four albums in iTunes all skip free. But only because I went and deleted to skipping songs and re ripped those one at a time. But a guy on the definitive technology forum said he never had an issue and then about a year ago with an update his songs started skipping.

Nope still haven't connected them. Today is the day though! I got home very motivated but then crashed from a busy day.

These babies will be connecting to a Denon 4520, which has Audyssey XT32. It is my first time using Audyssey, my Pioneer I am retiring had MCACC, and I have read wonderful things about Audyssey for years. When you jumped to XT on your Denon, did you notice an improvement over your Onkyo? Onkyo was my original AVR of choice to upgrade to, but I just didn't feel confident in their quality control. My friend has had a Denon for nearly 20 years, and has always been bugging me to upgrade.

That's correct, I believe you have to use iTunes for Airplay. I have never had Airplay, so i am interested in seeing what that is all about.

Why don't you download VLC and see if they play your music without issue?
post #3638 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

I imagine that any kind of negative Mac talk is strictly prohibited, especially on a Mac forum. Were you on iLounge by any chance? Most people think it is impossible for a Mac to have an issue. Quite the reputation Apple has built itself.
Go to MacForums.com they will tell it like it is good bad or indifferent but no FUD or it will be corrected and as of to date no OS is perfect and doubt we will ever see the day.
On that note using Apple Lossless (which is not invented by them) so far i have never experienced a glitch and I am very impressed with the VTF-15H's ability to keep bass tight clean and low
and showing my old subs limits that I was not aware of.
post #3639 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Does everyone use 80hz it seems?

Dr. Hsu, I was just reading the setup manual, since I will be using Audyssey this should be set automatically. Do you recommend bypassing that to another preferred setting?

80Hz is kind of the rule of thumb. Above that the bass becomes directional. I have the 3808ci and I would let it set the crossovers after running Audyssey. When I got my SMS-1 and was able to see a graph of the output vs frequency, I found that there was a significant dip prior to 80Hz. Trying different things I found that if I raised the crossover setting the dip would come up. So I set mine at 120Hz to flatten out that portion of the curve. Since I have my VTF-15h between the left speaker and the center, any bass that becomes directional from the sub doesn't stand out much. It's a tradeoff, but I'm happy with the result.
post #3640 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Nope still haven't connected them. Today is the day though! I got home very motivated but then crashed from a busy day.

These babies will be connecting to a Denon 4520, which has Audyssey XT32. It is my first time using Audyssey, my Pioneer I am retiring had MCACC, and I have read wonderful things about Audyssey for years. When you jumped to XT on your Denon, did you notice an improvement over your Onkyo? Onkyo was my original AVR of choice to upgrade to, but I just didn't feel confident in their quality control. My friend has had a Denon for nearly 20 years, and has always been bugging me to upgrade.

That's correct, I believe you have to use iTunes for Airplay. I have never had Airplay, so i am interested in seeing what that is all about.

Why don't you download VLC and see if they play your music without issue?

I tried vlc, same issue. I feel almost certain it's an issue during the actual ripping process. I'm gonna start reading up on the other software for ripping, hosting, and playing music on the Mac. A number are geared for high quality audio so it's possible.

Anyway the 4520 is nice for sure. Ideally that's what I want but it's a bit out of my price range. I could swing it but I have built what I have in 4 months. With a big bump from selling a built performance motor and performance parts. But eventually I want an 11 channel system which you can do with the 4520 with external amplification. And then add 2 of these subs and BAM! Also xt32 would be nice as it is the top notch audyssey unless you get a pro kit.

I had an Onkyo tx-NR 609. It only has the very basic version of audyssey which doesn't EQ the sub which is where electronic EQ is the most effective.

Audyssey goes as is: 2 EQ, MULTI EQ, MULTI EQ XT, MULTI EQ XT32, and the the pro kit you have professionally done or buy the license and do yourself.

So going from my Onkyo to my Denon at first the sub seemed mild but that's only because it was untamed before. I was playing with the gain up to over half at one point. Anyway it's now at about 9am on the gain which audyssey set it at -5.0 db which is fine. I then turned it up to +1db in the level control because I am a bass head. I just like a good strong kick drum when listening to my music. Also setting to an 80hz crossover could tame some of those upper bass frequencies if you like to turn it up as I like. Probably like most of you.
post #3641 of 5093
^denon is good from what I hear with customer service. Plus there are some very knowledgeable Denon guys on this forum in the avr section.
post #3642 of 5093
From my understanding, the crossover for the subwoofer is different from the LPF for the LFE channel. Am I reading this correctly in that you guys are using 80Hz as the crossover or LPF or both?
post #3643 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorPharm View Post

From my understanding, the crossover for the subwoofer is different from the LPF for the LFE channel. Am I reading this correctly in that you guys are using 80Hz as the crossover or LPF or both?

From the "Official" Audyssey thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993):

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?
First of all, Audyssey doesn't touch this setting. Neither is it a Crossover, although you will often see it described as such. It stands for Low Pass Filter of the Low Frequency Effects Channel. The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is the .1 in a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio track and it carries special content put there by the content mixer. The Low Pass Filter is the filter that is applied to that content. The content is authored up to 120Hz so the only setting that is correct for this is 120Hz. If you set it to anything below 120Hz then any content between 120Hz and whatever you set it to is lost. It is not redirected anywhere - it is simply discarded. This filter has nothing to do with any speaker Crossovers etc and it is not set by Audyssey. The only reason it is in the FAQ is that people often think that Audyssey has set it and they confuse it with their speaker Crossovers. Just set it at 120Hz and leave it there.

So my LPF is at 120 and I don't touch it. The speaker crossover settings is what I manually set after running Audyssey. The Audyssey FAQ and 101 has a lot of good info. If you haven't seen it you should check it out.
Edited by Tom C - 3/30/13 at 8:35am
post #3644 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

From the "Official" Audyssey thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993):

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?
First of all, Audyssey doesn't touch this setting. Neither is it a Crossover, although you will often see it described as such. It stands for Low Pass Filter of the Low Frequency Effects Channel. The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is the .1 in a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio track and it carries special content put there by the content mixer. The Low Pass Filter is the filter that is applied to that content. The content is authored up to 120Hz so the only setting that is correct for this is 120Hz. If you set it to anything below 120Hz then any content between 120Hz and whatever you set it to is lost. It is not redirected anywhere - it is simply discarded. This filter has nothing to do with any speaker Crossovers etc and it is not set by Audyssey. The only reason it is in the FAQ is that people often think that Audyssey has set it and they confuse it with their speaker Crossovers. Just set it at 120Hz and leave it there.

So my LPF is at 120 and I don't touch it. The speaker crossover settings is what I manually set after running Audyssey. The Audyssey FAQ and 101 has a lot of good info. If you haven't seen it you should check it out.

It's a ROLLOFF not a brick wall. Nothing is lost but it slopes down witch means less db the more it slopes. It's not simply cutoff and discarded.
post #3645 of 5093
I agree. I feel some are getting confused about their subwoofer crossover setting vs. their Low Pass Filter. I am in no position to challenge since my subwoofer has yet to arrive and have no way to test which setting work best in my room, but I am trying to get a feel for what individuals set their LPF to as well as their crossovers. It seems to me that most will fall into the 120Hz for LPF and 80Hz for the crossover.
post #3646 of 5093
I have tried different crossover points over the years and have come to the conclusion that 70 to 80 Hz seems to be the sweet spot since it takes the load off the main amps and speakers to not have to play these lower notes it seems to tighten up the mid bass for better sound and leave more headroom and since most subs will handle the 100Hz and lower range better why not let it do its job.
Just because you own towers that are 40Hz capable does not mean you need to cross them over at that point and yes I still like towers in medium to large rooms because I think they do a better job filling the room with mid bass.
post #3647 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

From the "Official" Audyssey thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993):

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?
First of all, Audyssey doesn't touch this setting. Neither is it a Crossover, although you will often see it described as such. It stands for Low Pass Filter of the Low Frequency Effects Channel. The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is the .1 in a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio track and it carries special content put there by the content mixer. The Low Pass Filter is the filter that is applied to that content. The content is authored up to 120Hz so the only setting that is correct for this is 120Hz. If you set it to anything below 120Hz then any content between 120Hz and whatever you set it to is lost. It is not redirected anywhere - it is simply discarded. This filter has nothing to do with any speaker Crossovers etc and it is not set by Audyssey. The only reason it is in the FAQ is that people often think that Audyssey has set it and they confuse it with their speaker Crossovers. Just set it at 120Hz and leave it there.

So my LPF is at 120 and I don't touch it. The speaker crossover settings is what I manually set after running Audyssey. The Audyssey FAQ and 101 has a lot of good info. If you haven't seen it you should check it out.

It's a ROLLOFF not a brick wall. Nothing is lost but it slopes down witch means less db the more it slopes. It's not simply cutoff and discarded.

That's true and I probably could have found a better quote to use. It looked like a good general statement to help answer GatorPharm's question about LPF and crossover settings.
post #3648 of 5093
Just chiming in, i found a neat little 5Hz to 60Hz bass test for those who have their internet hooked up through their monitors and AVR. I don't have a meter but i can start feeling the vtf-15H shaking things in my theater starting at 11 Hz and things really start to violently shake at 14 Hz and this is with 2 ports open!! If you have a 5.1 or 7.1 system you will feel the strongest bass it when the graph hits "middle".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTha0u_kIXc&list=FLWo_NU72Dop4aOUU8ViAglA
post #3649 of 5093
Hmmm, I have mine set at 60Hz on my 4311, I might try going to 80Hz.
post #3650 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrixj3 View Post

Just chiming in, i found a neat little 5Hz to 60Hz bass test for those who have their internet hooked up through their monitors and AVR. I don't have a meter but i can start feeling the vtf-15H shaking things in my theater starting at 11 Hz and things really start to violently shake at 14 Hz and this is with 2 ports open!! If you have a 5.1 or 7.1 system you will feel the strongest bass it when the graph hits "middle".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTha0u_kIXc&list=FLWo_NU72Dop4aOUU8ViAglA

Cool! Thanks! Can't wait to try it out later.
post #3651 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Cool! Thanks! Can't wait to try it out later.

It makes the windows rattle
post #3652 of 5093
So it was suppose to be delivered today. I checked the tracking info and noticed it was sitting at a hub 5min from my job on Saturday. I did what any normal impatient, anxious person would do, I went and picked it up my self biggrin.gif I was able to get it all hooked up that night.

http://imgur.com/a/Nt1zw

I still have no idea what settings to use or how to tune it, but from just turning it on and mildly playing with settings I can already tell I'm in love. This thing is AMAZING lol.
post #3653 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke3510 View Post

So it was suppose to be delivered today. I checked the tracking info and noticed it was sitting at a hub 5min from my job on Saturday. I did what any normal impatient, anxious person would do, I went and picked it up my self biggrin.gif I was able to get it all hooked up that night.

http://imgur.com/a/Nt1zw

I still have no idea what settings to use or how to tune it, but from just turning it on and mildly playing with settings I can already tell I'm in love. This thing is AMAZING lol.

One big thing about this sub is that it can be tuned several ways. Just avoid 2 ports open with eq1. You want deep bass, try one port open, eq1, q at .3 thru .5. You want good bass with good output, go for both ports open, eq2, q =.5 or less.
post #3654 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke3510 View Post

So it was suppose to be delivered today. I checked the tracking info and noticed it was sitting at a hub 5min from my job on Saturday. I did what any normal impatient, anxious person would do, I went and picked it up my self biggrin.gif I was able to get it all hooked up that night.

http://imgur.com/a/Nt1zw

I still have no idea what settings to use or how to tune it, but from just turning it on and mildly playing with settings I can already tell I'm in love. This thing is AMAZING lol.

First use the settings on the manual or go to HSU.com and DL it.

Congrats on your new Sub!

Edit: What prime said.
post #3655 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

One big thing about this sub is that it can be tuned several ways. Just avoid 2 ports open with eq1. You want deep bass, try one port open, eq1, q at .3 thru .5. You want good bass with good output, go for both ports open, eq2, q =.5 or less.

I did see 2 port open eq1 thing in the manual. I guess I'm just not sure exactly what I want, or how to attach the sound to the term (ie. what exactly good bass with good output sounds like). I'll be sure to check out both of what you suggested when I get home today. Out of curiosity, I'm currently letting my receiver (Pioneer VSX-42) handle the crossover. I ran the auto MCACC to let it do it's thing, I think the crossover ended up being at 100? I turned that down to 80, and left the sub on the "out" setting. Is there any benefit to having the sub handle the crossover and setting it with the knob and switching it to "on" ?
post #3656 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke3510 View Post

I did see 2 port open eq1 thing in the manual. I guess I'm just not sure exactly what I want, or how to attach the sound to the term (ie. what exactly good bass with good output sounds like). I'll be sure to check out both of what you suggested when I get home today. Out of curiosity, I'm currently letting my receiver (Pioneer VSX-42) handle the crossover. I ran the auto MCACC to let it do it's thing, I think the crossover ended up being at 100? I turned that down to 80, and left the sub on the "out" setting. Is there any benefit to having the sub handle the crossover and setting it with the knob and switching it to "on" ?

I use audyssey but I think you should the option of letting your sub handle any crossover off either by a switch or turning it all the way up and let your avr handle it and make adjustments there.

As far as the tuning, there is no sound I can describe as being right. Your room is different than mine. 1 plug will get the sub down as far as it will go but you sacrifice a little output. That number will be lower in some rooms than others. Both plugs open will get you more volume for output but doesn't dive as deep as the 1 port setting.
post #3657 of 5093
I am officially in the "holy s**t this thing is awesome" camp. I finally got time to set them up this past weekend. Audyssey configured them easily, but I noticed I increased the volume level within my receiver. I will also test out both ports unplugged. My house rattles for sure! My non-audiophile girlfriend made a comment about the improved sound quality, and how the sound is better pressured.

I have also attached a pic below of my old sub that I decommissioned to see what I upgraded from. You can tell by the pic just how much larger the VTF is. My old sub was a ported 12 inch downfiring sub, with a 125watt RMS rating, and not sure what the peak is. While that may sound crappy in comparison, I would like to give a salute to my old sub for holding well in my old 900cubit foot theater room. It retired nicely from my current 3000 cubic foot room.



post #3658 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke3510 View Post

I did see 2 port open eq1 thing in the manual. I guess I'm just not sure exactly what I want, or how to attach the sound to the term (ie. what exactly good bass with good output sounds like). I'll be sure to check out both of what you suggested when I get home today. Out of curiosity, I'm currently letting my receiver (Pioneer VSX-42) handle the crossover. I ran the auto MCACC to let it do it's thing, I think the crossover ended up being at 100? I turned that down to 80, and left the sub on the "out" setting. Is there any benefit to having the sub handle the crossover and setting it with the knob and switching it to "on" ?

In my room I run it 1 port eq 5. Gets real low and loud. Every room will be different . Try all settings and see which one YOU LIKE.
post #3659 of 5093
I watched Sinister the other night, and while its not an LFE showpiece, the music and rumbling really get you on edge in the movie. VTF15 did well.
post #3660 of 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I watched Sinister the other night, and while its not an LFE showpiece, the music and rumbling really get you on edge in the movie. VTF15 did well.

Agreed! The lfe channel definitely added to the creepiness.
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