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The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 132

post #3931 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Do you watch movies with Dynamic EQ on or off?

Yes I run dynamic EQ. Small room so even 67 on my Denon is bout as loud as you can stand it. I may see where you are going. Will dynamic EQ ask for even more power the further from reference it gets?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #3932 of 5097
that's what i'm wondering, I don't listen to my system relatively loud...usually between -18 to -24 on my denon. does it have any adverse effect on the sub? it sure does sound better with dynamic eq on though.
post #3933 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavb View Post

that's what i'm wondering, I don't listen to my system relatively loud...usually between -18 to -24 on my denon. does it have any adverse effect on the sub? it sure does sound better with dynamic eq on though.

Well with dynamic EQ it's a sliding scale the further down from reference you get. The greater the boost to sound better. But the thing to keep in mind is that at lower volumes the amp draw from the sub, and the speakers via the avr or external amps is lower. Dynamic EQ , IMO, is a great feature because guys like us and many others can't listen at 82db in our smaller rooms. I think we are fine. smile.gif. Like Dr. HSU said he has had customers running 20db hot!
post #3934 of 5097
My VTF-15H is starting to make some really ugly warbling sounds when hitting ultra-low frequencies, as if the driver is being pushed too hard. Most noticeably using a few different sweeps, the bass is very muddy and warbled starting at around 25Hz and lower.

Volume is at 8 o'clock on the sub (EQ 1, Q 0.7, 1 port), the Marantz is dialed in at -4, SMS-1 is set at 27 and max listening levels are at -10 below reference.

It's only approximately a year old, and I'm really concerned, let alone pretty disappointed I can't enjoy some ULF without being distracted of how ugly it sounds now.
post #3935 of 5097
Just had a thought. For those of you running duals...do you have both subs set the same? Or different? E.g. One 2 ports open and one 1 port open...
post #3936 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

My VTF-15H is starting to make some really ugly warbling sounds when hitting ultra-low frequencies, as if the driver is being pushed too hard. Most noticeably using a few different sweeps, the bass is very muddy and warbled starting at around 25Hz or lower.

Volume is at 8 o'clock on the sub (EQ 1, Q 0.7), the Marantz is dialed in at -4, SMS-1 is set at 27 and max listening levels are at -10 below reference.

It's only approximately a year old, and I'm really concerned, let alone pretty disappointed I can't enjoy some ULF without being distracted of how ugly it sounds now.

Really sorry to hear that. Hopefully someone will chime in who may know what's going on. Nonetheless if its 1 year old its still under warranty at least...cool.gif
post #3937 of 5097
Yeah, I've been working on it all day to figure out where in the chain might be pushing the driver too hard, but can't find it. Definitely hoping someone can help with a good suggestion.
post #3938 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

My VTF-15H is starting to make some really ugly warbling sounds when hitting ultra-low frequencies, as if the driver is being pushed too hard. Most noticeably using a few different sweeps, the bass is very muddy and warbled starting at around 25Hz and lower.

Volume is at 8 o'clock on the sub (EQ 1, Q 0.7, 1 port), the Marantz is dialed in at -4, SMS-1 is set at 27 and max listening levels are at -10 below reference.

It's only approximately a year old, and I'm really concerned, let alone pretty disappointed I can't enjoy some ULF without being distracted of how ugly it sounds now.

It's still under warranty so it shouldn't be a problem. Send Dr. Hsu a private message and/or contact HSU on Monday morning.
post #3939 of 5097
Well, after a few more hours of tinkering, unplugging and plugging, I finally determined the SMS-1 to be the problem. So with a huge sense of relief, I'm happy to report the ugly, warbling noise issue is not the 15H. For some reason, the SMS-1 is suddenly boosting the signal below 25Hz and over-driving the sub. Hopefully with some more tinkering tomorrow, I can figure out what the heck is going on.
post #3940 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

Well, after a few more hours of tinkering, unplugging and plugging, I finally determined the SMS-1 to be the problem. So with a huge sense of relief, I'm happy to report the ugly, warbling noise issue is not the 15H. For some reason, the SMS-1 is suddenly boosting the signal below 25Hz and over-driving the sub. Hopefully with some more tinkering tomorrow, I can figure out what the heck is going on.

You might try resetting the SMS-1 and see if that clears it up. Write down your settings first. I believe you press the menu button and then 8-9-0. Check the manual.

Also, IMO 27 is kind of high for the volume to be set on the SMS-1. You should have it at 15. That's the unity level (what comes in equals what goes out.) and only raise it to compensate for any EQ'ing that lowers your overall sub level. I seem to remember reading that for every 1 you raise the SMS-1 volume is equal to .5dB.

Hope this helps.
Edited by Tom C - 5/20/13 at 6:40am
post #3941 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by eNoize View Post

Well, after a few more hours of tinkering, unplugging and plugging, I finally determined the SMS-1 to be the problem. So with a huge sense of relief, I'm happy to report the ugly, warbling noise issue is not the 15H. For some reason, the SMS-1 is suddenly boosting the signal below 25Hz and over-driving the sub. Hopefully with some more tinkering tomorrow, I can figure out what the heck is going on.

Hi eNoize,

That sounds about right. We've heard that happening when people run audyssey, as well.

Sincerely,
Kevin
The Hsu Research Team
post #3942 of 5097
Hobbit has some good LFE.
post #3943 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Hobbit has some good LFE.

Really? Over on the Bass thread that movie has been massively crucified as being one of the worst movies of all time for LFE...smile.gif
post #3944 of 5097
Why?

Several instances it had the 15 thumping hard. I don't monitor threads like those because I like to decide for myself. Some scenes were a bit ugly sounding, but I've heard worse. I also noted reviewers were down on that flick and I enjoyed it, so to each their own.
post #3945 of 5097
Did you read the highdefdigest and avs bluray reviews?

I guess one could complain some of the bass wasn't super low, but the sub was active a LOT.
post #3946 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Just had a thought. For those of you running duals...do you have both subs set the same? Or different? E.g. One 2 ports open and one 1 port open...

You know what, I actually did experiment. In my theater I keep one sub behind my sofa, and the other on the left side of the seating area (about 10 feet away). I originally did experiment with keeping 1 port open behind me since the sub is much closer, and keeping the sub furthest away 2 ports open. What I found was that I would run the sub hotter behind me to get the same punch. Ultimately, I continually prefer the sound of 2 ports open on both subs.

For the Q control, I briefly experimenting running one at 0.5, the other at 0.3 or 0.7. I honestly can't say I preferred one setting over the other, and would probably not be able to tell the difference. Because of this, I leave them both the same at 0.5 for ease.
post #3947 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Did you read the highdefdigest and avs bluray reviews?

I guess one could complain some of the bass wasn't super low, but the sub was active a LOT.

I personally have not seen it yet, but will be in the next couple weeks. On the Bass threads, most people were claiming that there was little ULF material to the point of stating they verified their subs were still powered on.
post #3948 of 5097
Having to check their subs? That's utter BS. Mine was active a lot, there was one scene where it was banging like a LFE machine gun. I'll agree maybe it wasn't a ton of low stuff, but I was quite happy with the sub during the movie.
post #3949 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

The whole idea of having the Q control and multiple operating modes is so you can change the sound character of the sub to fine tune it to sound best to you. If you run Audyssey after you set the controls on the sub, Aydussey will always try to make the sound the same irrespective of the control settings on the sub, defeating some of the purpose of the controls.

Hi Dr. Hsu,

Can you please confirm if the Audyssey setup recommendations you have are still relevant to the newer Audyssey XT32 processors that have dual sub EQ'ing?

When I run Audyssey, I leave my subs at the recommended 1 port open and Q 0.7 (once completed I change to 2 ports open Q 0.5). I find that Audyssey is frequently setting both subs to about -11 db, which I find way too low. Both subs have the volume knob set to about a hair below the 9 o'clock position. Is there any issues with adjusting the volume entirely through my receiver instead of via the knob? Will there be any amp strain by going from -11 to -3, and should this be done through the knob or receiver?
post #3950 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Hi Dr. Hsu,

Can you please confirm if the Audyssey setup recommendations you have are still relevant to the newer Audyssey XT32 processors that have dual sub EQ'ing?

When I run Audyssey, I leave my subs at the recommended 1 port open and Q 0.7 (once completed I change to 2 ports open Q 0.5). I find that Audyssey is frequently setting both subs to about -11 db, which I find way too low. Both subs have the volume knob set to about a hair below the 9 o'clock position. Is there any issues with adjusting the volume entirely through my receiver instead of via the knob? Will there be any amp strain by going from -11 to -3, and should this be done through the knob or receiver?

You should definitely set your knobs lower then run audyssey. I have my single at like 830 to achieve -1.5 db. After wards you will want to do it through the receiver. Technically you could do either but there is just no way of knowing how much you are changing by the slightest turn of the gain knob
post #3951 of 5097
Also I assume you are using subEQ ht for the placement of your duals?
post #3952 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

The whole idea of having the Q control and multiple operating modes is so you can change the sound character of the sub to fine tune it to sound best to you. If you run Audyssey after you set the controls on the sub, Aydussey will always try to make the sound the same irrespective of the control settings on the sub, defeating some of the purpose of the controls.

Hi Dr. Hsu,

Can you please confirm if the Audyssey setup recommendations you have are still relevant to the newer Audyssey XT32 processors that have dual sub EQ'ing?

When I run Audyssey, I leave my subs at the recommended 1 port open and Q 0.7 (once completed I change to 2 ports open Q 0.5). I find that Audyssey is frequently setting both subs to about -11 db, which I find way too low. Both subs have the volume knob set to about a hair below the 9 o'clock position. Is there any issues with adjusting the volume entirely through my receiver instead of via the knob? Will there be any amp strain by going from -11 to -3, and should this be done through the knob or receiver?

-11 means your subs volumes are too high. Shut one sub off and bring the volume down on the other sub. Run the first position of Audyssey only and check the level. Ideally you want to be +/- 3dB. Repeat as necessary.

Turn that sub off and then turn the other back on and repeat. Since you have two subs their output would be additive. (Others can comment on this better than I.) You may want to try to set them slightly positive that way when they are both on your final trim will be slightly negative.
post #3953 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

You might try resetting the SMS-1 and see if that clears it up. Write down your settings first. I believe you press the menu button and then 8-9-0. Check the manual.

Also, IMO 27 is kind of high for the volume to be set on the SMS-1. You should have it at 15. That's the unity level (what comes in equals what goes out.) and only raise it to compensate for any EQ'ing that lowers your overall sub level. I seem to remember reading that for every 1 you raise the SMS-1 volume is equal to .5dB.

Hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HsuKevin View Post

Hi eNoize,

That sounds about right. We've heard that happening when people run audyssey, as well.

Sincerely,
Kevin
The Hsu Research Team

Thanks for the response. When I run Audyssey, I have the SMS-1 at preset 6 (EQ Defeat, volume 15) and adjust sub level until I achieve somewhere in between -3 to 0. When I have more free time later this afternoon, I'm going to experiment running Audyssey with the sub directly plugged in -- that's without the SMS as the middle man. Then, plug back into the SMS and make adjustments.

I usually listen with the SMS at around 22, maybe 25 max. But recently, when I added a custom-made sub for midbass to even out the room (12" driver with 150w amp), somehow the volume increased close to 30. Hopefully, running Audyssey without the SMS involved will make more accurate readings of the room.
post #3954 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Hi Dr. Hsu,

Can you please confirm if the Audyssey setup recommendations you have are still relevant to the newer Audyssey XT32 processors that have dual sub EQ'ing?

When I run Audyssey, I leave my subs at the recommended 1 port open and Q 0.7 (once completed I change to 2 ports open Q 0.5). I find that Audyssey is frequently setting both subs to about -11 db, which I find way too low. Both subs have the volume knob set to about a hair below the 9 o'clock position. Is there any issues with adjusting the volume entirely through my receiver instead of via the knob? Will there be any amp strain by going from -11 to -3, and should this be done through the knob or receiver?

TomC is right. The subs' gain are set too high. If you have already gain matched the two subs, play them one at a time, play say the 40 Hz track on our CDR, place SPL meter (assuming you have one) a foot in front of the sub, adjust the master volume to get 83 dB, then lower the volume control on the sub to get it down to 77 dB. Repeat for the second sub. This lowers the gain of the subs by 6 dB. Now you can raise the sub out on your receiver to 0 dB. This way, you are running them 5 dB hot (11 - 6). With the output set to 0 dB, your auto on will work nicely, and at 5 dB hot, you should get closer to the bass you want versus what Audyssey was setting the sub to, while not being overbearingly so.
post #3955 of 5097
Has anyone ever seen measurements on 2 or more 15h's? Just curious what the graph would look like
post #3956 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

-11 means your subs volumes are too high. Shut one sub off and bring the volume down on the other sub. Run the first position of Audyssey only and check the level. Ideally you want to be +/- 3dB. Repeat as necessary.

Turn that sub off and then turn the other back on and repeat. Since you have two subs their output would be additive. (Others can comment on this better than I.) You may want to try to set them slightly positive that way when they are both on your final trim will be slightly negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

You should definitely set your knobs lower then run audyssey. I have my single at like 830 to achieve -1.5 db. After wards you will want to do it through the receiver. Technically you could do either but there is just no way of knowing how much you are changing by the slightest turn of the gain knob

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Also I assume you are using subEQ ht for the placement of your duals?


Thank you for the replies. Forgive my ignorance with Audyssey, but based on these suggestions it appears that bypassing Audyssey is the route to go. Is it fair to say that fine tuning these on my own (with my SPL) would yield better results than with Audyssey? I actually have not used this method before as I assumed Audyssey was the end all for sub EQ.
post #3957 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post



Thank you for the replies. Forgive my ignorance with Audyssey, but based on these suggestions it appears that bypassing Audyssey is the route to go. Is it fair to say that fine tuning these on my own (with my SPL) would yield better results than with Audyssey? I actually have not used this method before as I assumed Audyssey was the end all for sub EQ.

We are all learning. smile.gif
You don't want to bypass it at all. It's a great tool. Check this out. It definitely helps

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour

This will give you a much better view on audyssey.
post #3958 of 5097
What receiver do you have?

4520 was it
post #3959 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_hsu View Post

TomC is right. The subs' gain are set too high. If you have already gain matched the two subs, play them one at a time, play say the 40 Hz track on our CDR, place SPL meter (assuming you have one) a foot in front of the sub, adjust the master volume to get 83 dB, then lower the volume control on the sub to get it down to 77 dB. Repeat for the second sub. This lowers the gain of the subs by 6 dB. Now you can raise the sub out on your receiver to 0 dB. This way, you are running them 5 dB hot (11 - 6). With the output set to 0 dB, your auto on will work nicely, and at 5 dB hot, you should get closer to the bass you want versus what Audyssey was setting the sub to, while not being overbearingly so.

Dr. Hsu,

Thank you for this setup tip. One thing I need to mention is that the subs were individually gain matched by Audyssey to about 76-77db when I first ran the XT32 setup, this was the only time I actually touched the volume gain knob. Would your method of fine tuning the subs come before or after I run Audyssey? I am assuming all tweaking would come after the setup suite is completed with 1 port open and Q=0.7. If Audyssey really is taken out of the equation, then I am assuming I would have to also fine tune the subs to see which settings are preferred (port, Q, etc.)
post #3960 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

What receiver do you have?

4520 was it

Yep, that's correct. My last receiver was a Pioneer, so I am from the whole MCACC world of room correction. Back then there was no sub room correction; more like just level matching (which was always inaccurate). I think XT32 does a much better job overall. When I ran an SPL check, I was pleasantly surprised to see how accurately matched all the speakers are. Subs always seem to be the big challenge I suppose.
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