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The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 149

post #4441 of 5097
Have been following this thread and subwoofer for over a year now. Still kicking around buying this monster. The question is I have had some older Infinity BU 120's for the past 12 years and have had them fixed a few times due to the amps.

Back that many years ago they were pretty good and have served me well. Now the question comes if the HSU will be a good upgrade as I have never experienced a so called true subwoofer.

I'm running a Denon 3806 in 5.1 right now. I'm using Infinity RS 5's for my mains and Infinity CC3 for center. My surrounds are the Infinity RS 1s. They are very clean sounding speakers and bought them at the same time as the Infinity subwoofers.

If you need room measurement I will get those later after work. This is in a dedicated open living room theater.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #4442 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post

Have been following this thread and subwoofer for over a year now. Still kicking around buying this monster. The question is I have had some older Infinity BU 120's for the past 12 years and have had them fixed a few times due to the amps.

Back that many years ago they were pretty good and have served me well. Now the question comes if the HSU will be a good upgrade as I have never experienced a so called true subwoofer.

I'm running a Denon 3806 in 5.1 right now. I'm using Infinity RS 5's for my mains and Infinity CC3 for center. My surrounds are the Infinity RS 1s. They are very clean sounding speakers and bought them at the same time as the Infinity subwoofers.

If you need room measurement I will get those later after work. This is in a dedicated open living room theater.

I just looked at that sub on Amazon and I will tell you one of the VTF15 will smash both of those subs. I used to own a Klipsch 12" sub similar to that and my amp always had issues. I thought when it was working that it sounded good. Boy I was proved wrong when I got the HSU VTF15. I just got done watching Pacific Rim and there is bass throughout the whole film, the VTF handled it just fine. This sub has kept me happy in my HT room for over a year now and it is still puts a grin on my face when I watch new movies like Pacific Rim!
post #4443 of 5097
Yes it would be an obvious and pleasant upgrade from what you have. I don't have Hsu but I do have a home brew 15" sub and it is awesome compared to the 12" sub it replaced.
post #4444 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

I just looked at that sub on Amazon and I will tell you one of the VTF15 will smash both of those subs. I used to own a Klipsch 12" sub similar to that and my amp always had issues. I thought when it was working that it sounded good. Boy I was proved wrong when I got the HSU VTF15. I just got done watching Pacific Rim and there is bass throughout the whole film, the VTF handled it just fine. This sub has kept me happy in my HT room for over a year now and it is still puts a grin on my face when I watch new movies like Pacific Rim!



Yes! I'm going to watch Pacific Rim tonight.
post #4445 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Yes! I'm going to watch Pacific Rim tonight.
Sweet!
I actually watched the 3D portion last night but I had to keep the volume down low. Today I watched the 2D version and with a more authoritative volume level. There was bass throughout the film although not as low as the comparative Cloverfield but still decent and entertaining.
post #4446 of 5097
Pacific Rim sucked as a movie but the score was excellent!
post #4447 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post

Have been following this thread and subwoofer for over a year now. Still kicking around buying this monster. The question is I have had some older Infinity BU 120's for the past 12 years and have had them fixed a few times due to the amps.

Back that many years ago they were pretty good and have served me well. Now the question comes if the HSU will be a good upgrade as I have never experienced a so called true subwoofer.

I'm running a Denon 3806 in 5.1 right now. I'm using Infinity RS 5's for my mains and Infinity CC3 for center. My surrounds are the Infinity RS 1s. They are very clean sounding speakers and bought them at the same time as the Infinity subwoofers.

If you need room measurement I will get those later after work. This is in a dedicated open living room theater.
post #4448 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Pacific Rim sucked as a movie but the score was excellent!

Nonsense, the movie was excellent......lol. Gipsy Danger was all that. When is the last time you saw a 20 story tall robot walking down the street dragging an oil tanker and then using it as a Louisville Slugger.

Ok, ok, it's not going to win any awards.biggrin.gif
post #4449 of 5097
Honestly, what are people expecting from a Robot vs. Monsters movie?!

GDT said it best, "This movie was made by people who love Robots and Monsters, for people that love Robots and Monsters."
post #4450 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

dang tablet! Anyway, as a vtf owner, I believe you will be overjoyed! This was my first over $500 sub. I really had no idea what to expect. It obviously receives great reviews, but nothing could prepare for the emotions that it would produce in me. It has been by far the largest improvement to my system any single purchase has made. Ht sound is for me about dynamics, and you cant do better for the money that is for sure!
post #4451 of 5097
My setup is HSU-VTF-15H, Jbl LS80, LS40, LScenter, HK AVR-7200+ Para HCA-1000. My room is 14'x18'x8', my sub is 2' from the corner below the screen. Listening position is 15' from the screen. The HSU sub provides all of the low bass that I could ever want in this room, but I am lacking that mid-bass punch. Hsu has a mid bass unit that I am considering, but I would like to get more from my L+R. I believe that they should perform well in this range. I am only giving the LF 125w from the para and the HF gets much more than it needs from the HK (100w) These speakers are not high sensitivity (<90dB), and jbl recommends bi-amp, but also says 200w continuous would be the max for these speakers. So I am hoping someone could tell me how much power I could give the LF, and if that might give worthwhile results. Thanks-
post #4452 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

Honestly, what are people expecting from a Robot vs. Monsters movie?!

GDT said it best, "This movie was made by people who love Robots and Monsters, for people that love Robots and Monsters."

Real Steel was much better, and that's a "robot" movie.

Just because its a robot or monster movie doesn't mean it gets a pass for sucking.

Just my opinion. Back to the normal VTF talk biggrin.gif
post #4453 of 5097
I'm going to post up some room dimensions and layout just to get advice.

I'm sure like others it's hard to spend that type if money that you cannot see or demo locally.
post #4454 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Real Steel was much better, and that's a "robot" movie.

Just because its a robot or monster movie doesn't mean it gets a pass for sucking.

Just my opinion. Back to the normal VTF talk biggrin.gif


We will agree to disagree, but that could be another thread!tongue.gif
post #4455 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

Honestly, what are people expecting from a Robot vs. Monsters movie?!

GDT said it best, "This movie was made by people who love Robots and Monsters, for people that love Robots and Monsters."

Real Steel was much better, and that's a "robot" movie.

Just because its a robot or monster movie doesn't mean it gets a pass for sucking.

Just my opinion. Back to the normal VTF talk biggrin.gif

Nuts lol, Rim took me back to all the early godzilla films.
post #4456 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

Honestly, what are people expecting from a Robot vs. Monsters movie?!

GDT said it best, "This movie was made by people who love Robots and Monsters, for people that love Robots and Monsters."



Agreed and I just finished watching PR and thoroughly enjoyed it. No ultra low LFE, but the whole movie was filled with good bass. I'd have to say my 15H is broken in well now.
post #4457 of 5097
Yeah buddy glad you enjoyed it!
post #4458 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Real Steel was much better, and that's a "robot" movie.

Just because its a robot or monster movie doesn't mean it gets a pass for sucking.

Just my opinion. Back to the normal VTF talk biggrin.gif

Thats complete BS.
post #4459 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Thats complete BS.

Great, my opinion is BS according to you. Good for you. Maybe you can add a few bigger words to your vocabulary, but I won't hold my breath rolleyes.gif

Look, people have different opinions and likes. Saying someone elses opinion is BS is rather childish and just shows how immature you are.
post #4460 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Great, my opinion is BS according to you. Good for you. Maybe you can add a few bigger words to your vocabulary, but I won't hold my breath rolleyes.gif

Look, people have different opinions and likes. Saying someone elses opinion is BS is rather childish and just shows how immature you are.

Well you did say in your post that the movie "sucks", so that is a pretty small worded opinion right? That opinion might call by out other opinions you might not like.

Real Steel is a decent movie, but hardly a comparison to PR because Real Steel is a father/son story and the robots serve as a background to the true story. PR is a genre movie about robot vs monsters and the survival of earth, nothing more nothing less.
post #4461 of 5097
Exactly, "sucking", and you are going to bring up my vocabulary? Ha!

Anyways, I liked Real Steel, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion (how unfair it may be), just know you are in the minority and I find it odd someone would say it sucked. That should be left for movies like Vehicle 19, which indeed sucked...

I can't wait to watch in 3D tomorrow night and see how the VTF15 performs!
post #4462 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Exactly, "sucking", and you are going to bring up my vocabulary? Ha!

Anyways, I liked Real Steel, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion (how unfair it may be), just know you are in the minority and I find it odd someone would say it sucked. That should be left for movies like Vehicle 19, which indeed sucked...

I can't wait to watch in 3D tomorrow night and see how the VTF15 performs!



You will love the constant and consistent bass in this movie. The VTF15 was really showing off last night when I watched PR biggrin.gif
post #4463 of 5097
The reviews on here and HDD for AQ/PQ have me excited!

After watching WWZ, and then Star Trek Into Darkness 3D last weekend, Im having a good run of fun flicks with BASS.
post #4464 of 5097
I posted what I thought was a legitimate question yesterday, but all anyone wants to talk about are movies rolleyes.gif
post #4465 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

I posted what I thought was a legitimate question yesterday, but all anyone wants to talk about are movies rolleyes.gif



Hi and I'll give this a shot smile.gif I'm actually going through the same thing, I'm lacking mid bass punch. My Def Tech sub had plenty of this for music so for me I think it's taking some time getting used to my new bass. Also I haven't really tried other settings, I'm EQ1 one port open Q .5. I'm adding another VTF15 in about a week and after break in I'll get serious about fine tuning them. As far as biamping speakers I'm not a fan, I think you would do much better to have 200 watts of good clean high voltage power going to your JBL's. I'm also surprised JBL recommended biamping without an external crossover because IMO doing it with the speakers internal XO is pointless. I've also found my Parasound HCA1500A to lack bass when compared to my Sunfire amp, YMMV. I found my old PSB original golds did not wake up until I put 400WPC @ 4ohms into them.

Edit;
I got to thinking that JBL has there reasons for recommending biamping. Maybe you would share that reason? I'm not familiar with that model of speakers so fill us in if you can. My Revel F52's are also bi ampable and I tried them that way and I went back to the normal wiring, IMO it didn't do a thing except cause Audyssey to cross them at 250Hz, ouch!
Edited by comfynumb - 10/17/13 at 5:44am
post #4466 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi and I'll give this a shot smile.gif I'm actually going through the same thing, I'm lacking mid bass punch. My Def Tech sub had plenty of this for music so for me I think it's taking some time getting used to my new bass. Also I haven't really tried other settings, I'm EQ1 one port open Q .5. I'm adding another VTF15 in about a week and after break in I'll get serious about fine tuning them. As far as biamping speakers I'm not a fan, I think you would do much better to have 200 watts of good clean high voltage power going to your JBL's. I'm also surprised JBL recommended biamping without an external crossover because IMO doing it with the speakers internal XO is pointless. I've also found my Parasound HCA1500A to lack bass when compared to my Sunfire amp, YMMV. I found my old PSB original golds did not wake up until I put 400WPC @ 4ohms into them.

Edit;
I got to thinking that JBL has there reasons for recommending biamping. Maybe you would share that reason? I'm not familiar with that model of speakers so fill us in if you can. My Revel F52's are also bi ampable and I tried them that way and I went back to the normal wiring, IMO it didn't do a thing except cause Audyssey to cross them at 250Hz, ouch!
Thanks for the reply! In the manual is says that there are "several sonic advantages" to bi-amping. I always thought it was just for the sake of improved dynamics, but I can't back it up. Do you really think that 200w would be enough? It sounds like the HCA-1500 wouldn't do the trick.
Do I need to worry about the 200w max continuous spec in the manual? Would 300w be too much?
Edited by mumbleypeg - 10/17/13 at 6:16am
post #4467 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

Thanks for the reply! In the manual is says that there are "several sonic advantages" to bi-amping. I always thought it was just for the sake of improved dynamics, but I can't back it up. Do you really think that 200w would be enough? It sounds like the HCA-1500 wouldn't do the trick.
Do I need to worry about the 200w max continuous spec in the manual? Would 300w be too much?



No problem. Doubling the power only adds 3db to the volume part (I believe it's 3db) but can definitely help. I would post this in a JBL thread, there are MANY JBL owners on AVS who would share their thoughts I'm sure. I just don't have any experience with that model. Best of luck and let us know how you make out.
post #4468 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

My setup is HSU-VTF-15H, Jbl LS80, LS40, LScenter, HK AVR-7200+ Para HCA-1000. My room is 14'x18'x8', my sub is 2' from the corner below the screen. Listening position is 15' from the screen. The HSU sub provides all of the low bass that I could ever want in this room, but I am lacking that mid-bass punch. Hsu has a mid bass unit that I am considering, but I would like to get more from my L+R. I believe that they should perform well in this range. I am only giving the LF 125w from the para and the HF gets much more than it needs from the HK (100w) These speakers are not high sensitivity (<90dB), and jbl recommends bi-amp, but also says 200w continuous would be the max for these speakers. So I am hoping someone could tell me how much power I could give the LF, and if that might give worthwhile results. Thanks-

Alright I will give you an answer

You need measurement equipment. This is how you diagnose your audio problem.

Some culprits to lacking mid-bass punch.
1. Room nulls from subwoofer, speaker and/or seat placment
2. Allison effect from speaker placement.
3. Cancellation between mains and sub at crossover region.
4. Reflective surfaces increasing perceived treble making it seem like midbass lacking.

These can be understood through measurements, and fixed by moving things, tweak sub distance, or by adding room treatments. The room dominates the audio presentation below the Schroeder frequency. By selecting proper room treatments for the job, you help to remove the room's influences.

Bi wiring has been spoken of quite a bit around avs, do a search. Here is one thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1388090/benefit-of-bi-wire-speakers

Doubling of power gives 3 dB (without compression being a factor).

Have you tried turning down the treble and/or running a mode like re-q to turn down the treble? If you turn down the treble and recalibrate levels, this will give your speaker a warmer sound obviously.

If you aren't measuring your system, you are just guessing. Good Luck
Edited by Luke Kamp - 10/17/13 at 10:15am
post #4469 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Alright I will give you an answer

You need measurement equipment. This is how you diagnose your audio problem.

Some culprits to lacking mid-bass punch.
1. Room nulls from subwoofer, speaker and/or seat placment
2. Allison effect from speaker placement.
3. Cancellation between mains and sub at crossover region.
4. Reflective surfaces increasing perceived treble making it seem like midbass lacking.

These can be understood through measurements, and fixed by moving things, tweak sub distance, or by adding room treatments. The room dominates the audio presentation below the Schroeder frequency. By selecting proper room treatments for the job, you help to remove the room's influences.

Bi wiring has been spoken of quite a bit around avs, do a search. Here is one thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1388090/benefit-of-bi-wire-speakers

Doubling of power gives 3 dB (without compression being a factor).

Have you tried turning down the treble and/or running a mode like re-q to turn down the treble? If you turn down the treble and recalibrate levels, this will give your speaker a warmer sound obviously.

If you aren't measuring your system, you are just guessing. Good Luck
Thanks for the thorough reply! Looks like I have my work cut out for me! I do have bass traps in all corners, and wall to wall carpeting with foam padding, and I have felt masking surrounding my screen and covering the walls and ceiling 14' back from the screen. I can say that the treble suits me very well. It is smooth and sweet and very well controlled in my room. I have input my room dimensions into a calculator, but I really couldn't interpret the results. I will try to upload some pics, Maybe you could give me some tips about placement.
post #4470 of 5097
Its really difficult to diagnose without knowing what we are working with in regards to frequency response. You can try some 200 hz to 20 hz bass sweeps and see if you have some audible dips. Basically you want to hunt down the specific midbass frequencies that are lacking. Once you know specific frequencies are the issue you can start to work on how to fix it. Play the frequencies that are low, and walk around room. If these midbass frequencies are louder in places as you move around, its modal. If it stays the same, it is probably allison effect (as cancellation is always there as its a 1/4 wavelength cancellation off boundary). If its because you have a phase interaction at crossover between sub and speakers, trying adding a few feet to the sub distance in avr.


The easiest and best way to do this is with a measurement mic. With the new USB mics and freeware, getting this done for ~$100 makes it a no brainer in getting the maximum out of your setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs

Doing this you can see starting point and what changes do instantaneously. Can't recommend this ability to visualize what we are hearing enough. Its an invaluable resource. I will never setup any system without measuring ever again.

Without measuring you can try moving speakers in and out from front wall, try moving subwoofer around or seats forward or back a little. Can try some of the known modal cancellation subwoofer placements such as 1/4, 1/2 distances between offensive boundaries.

I wasn't implying that you have bad treble, but if you turn the treble down, the midbass will be more audible. Harman has done several studies on what make good sq and their proprietary room correction doesn't eq to a flat frequency response. wink.gif
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