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The Official HSU VTF-15H Thread - Page 156

post #4651 of 5097
Yeah that's pretty pitiful

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #4652 of 5097
Those subs already have a low margin, can't expect em to sell em for a loss.
post #4653 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Those subs already have a low margin, can't expect em to sell em for a loss.

Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.
post #4654 of 5097
And you're not paying for the overhead of engineering, development, website, a physical place to build the subs, business administration costs, insurance, employees, and still have to turn a profit after all that to make whatever living you need to justify all your time and energy put into it.

After all that is accounted for I bet the profit margin isn't as good as it looks when you compare the raw parts cost vs retail. smile.gif
post #4655 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.

I feel the same way about cars, which is why I always build my own.

Ford, Lexus - all a bunch of scam artists
post #4656 of 5097
And lumber prices are outrageous. I'm growing my own tree
post #4657 of 5097
I was gonna send em to the woodshed for that short sided reply, glad to see some rational folks here already did.

What a ridiculous reply... Troll much on the holidays?

Quote:
Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.

As stated above, sure you can build certain things like this for much cheaper, it has ZERO bearing on a company that has to do it. Personnel for support and logistics, engineering and marketing, then benefits.

Any one that can pull their head out of their, well, you know, long enough knows that the VTF15 is an excellent deal and the company offers excellent support.

I've come to appreciate these things, just like how Oppo runs and supports their blu-ray player business. Im sure I could build my BDP-103D for a few hundred less than the $599 I paid Oppo... Then I could pay myself to fix it when it breaks.
post #4658 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.

I feel the same way about cars, which is why I always build my own.

Ford, Lexus - all a bunch of scam artists

Well my sub is 6 to 10 dbs louder then hsu. Maybe you don't notice that improvement. Yep ford is a ripoff.
post #4659 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Well my sub is 6 to 10 dbs louder then hsu. Maybe you don't notice that improvement. Yep ford is a ripoff.

You simply "can't see the forest for the trees"...
post #4660 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I was gonna send em to the woodshed for that short sided reply, glad to see some rational folks here already did.

What a ridiculous reply... Troll much on the holidays?

Quote:
Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.

As stated above, sure you can build certain things like this for much cheaper, it has ZERO bearing on a company that has to do it. Personnel for support and logistics, engineering and marketing, then benefits.

Any one that can pull their head out of their, well, you know, long enough knows that the VTF15 is an excellent deal and the company offers excellent support.

I've come to appreciate these things, just like how Oppo runs and supports their blu-ray player business. Im sure I could build my BDP-103D for a few hundred less than the $599 I paid Oppo... Then I could pay myself to fix it when it breaks.

Gadget your ridiculous. Took me to the woodshed ? Your one who needs to get his head out of his "@ss. I stated commercial subs. Hsu marks up just like the rest. Comparing building a sub vs a car or a blueray is stupidity. Your dual hsu subs wont beat my one diy. Ltd 02 designed it and the stereo integrity 18 is far superior to the hsu driver.

As for troll .... look at my stats. The help ratio of my account crushes yours.
post #4661 of 5097
To put it into perspective, the company I work for sells lamps and lighting fixtures. A $100 lamp we sell to retailers such as Amazon, Kohl's or Lowe's will be sold for at least $200 or even $300. It costs us $30 to have this lamp manufactured by our suppliers in China. So you think the margin is high, right?

My employer is barely breaking even.
Edited by chuckychuck7 - 11/28/13 at 11:54pm
post #4662 of 5097
Wow, escalated to penis measuring via post count in 8 posts.

http://failbob.com/well-that-escalated-quickly/

It's a simple matter of not knowing what it takes to run a profitable business. It seems that most people who claim that any product they can build themselves are unaware of that.

Chalugadup, may I suggest an exercise? Consider what you make at your job, break it down into an hourly wage if you don't all ready know it. Now add up every minute you spent researching, designing, ordering parts, building, and testing your subwoofer. Now add time to package and ship your subwoofer. Multiply that by what you make at your current job hourly. Now add the cost of all the parts you purchased for your sub and you will arrive at what would be considered the retail price of your sub.

Making some big assumptions here, a $60k salary, 40 hrs a week, $29ish/hr and say 15 hours of total work (again, every minute counts) that's $425ish plus your stated $475 in parts, total $900 theoretical retail. But wait, now to make a living you have to mass produce, market and sell them. Oh, and you'll need a place to build them, and pay other people to help you build them fast enough to meet demand an d maintain your salary of $60k/year. Either your salary goes down or you need to charge more for your product.

Seriously think about that, apply your own numbers to the equation and then consider if the HSU is a ripoff.

WRT the car analogy, I also race cars. It's taken me five years and $20k to modify...not even build a complete car but to MODIFY a car that can as many or more Lateral G's than many super cars. And if I even tried to add up all my time spend over 5 years making that happen I've no doubt I'd have a $100k+ car build cost.
post #4663 of 5097
Something else to think about, Chaluga, time is money. It took a lot of time to research, order parts, build, and fine-tune your sub. For people who don't have the time for all that, the VTF15h is a great deal. Sure the individual parts are a lot more modest than what you could build for yourself for the same price, but there is a hell of a lot of time saved for those who don't have or don't want that kind of spare time invested in putting together a sub. Another thing to think about is, yeah the VTF15h isn't amazing components, but the overall sub is refined and engineered to a degree that DIY rarely achieve. Does your sub have the kind of linearity that the VTF15h has? Is its impulse response as good? Can it match the VTF15h's outstanding group delay measurements? What about its compression magnitude? What would your sub's passing CEA scores look like? Have you even measured its distortion profile, or can you only talk about raw SPL?

I'm all for DIY when when you already have the tools, skills, and knowledge to make it work, but for those who don't, subs like the VTF15h are a very sensible option.
post #4664 of 5097
Let's face it, he's obviously shown he has no idea how business works. Hopefully the "excellent" advice you give around here isn't how to properly run one.

A) Its quite obvious that one can build a great sub for cheaper than an internet direct company can, noone ever disagreed with that
B) The discussion was about Hsu's margin as a company with the overhead they have. You can't just add up the parts and say the product costs X to build (you obviously do not understand this)
C) Hsu subs are considered an excellent value in this market by just about everyone, except you.
D) You sound like a lot of DIY guys Ive read after they did it. "My sub was cheaper and it beats yours". Whoopity doo... I've also seen some and they aint that pretty.

So maybe you should go back to the DIY threads and move on (you obviusly do not belong in the thread), because you just continue to show what you don't understand about the real world. You challenged a statement by me that they had a small margin on the sub so discounting was not something they usually do, by stating how cheaply you could build one. If you can't understand what is wrong with that statement, then, there is not much to further discuss. Or maybe you should go back to school and take some business courses.

I'd also ask if you considered your time, in hours, spent obtaining parts and building the sub to completion. Now, times those hours and mins at say $35/hour, and then tell me how much your sub cost then? Now, is the finish enough where you could sell it to someone? Is it reliable enough? As asked before have you done frequency response testing to see how it actually performs?

All of this is what a company that sells them has to do, plus more. Yes, you can build yourself one for cheaper, but a company doesnt work like that so don't go around spewing incorrect statements when you obviously do not have a clue about business. Like I said "forest for the trees"... have a nice life.
Edited by gadgtfreek - 11/29/13 at 5:25am
post #4665 of 5097
What happened here?!

I am in agreement with others that HSU margin is very low at the regular price for this subwoofer. Factor in just the cost of the boxes/packing material that they have to spend $$$ on per year and someone to actually pack all that up.
post #4666 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornSlippyZ View Post

What happened here?!

I am in agreement with others that HSU margin is very low at the regular price for this subwoofer. Factor in just the cost of the boxes/packing material that they have to spend $$$ on per year and someone to actually pack all that up.

Short version - Just someone that thinks that since they can build a "better" sub for cheaper, that it means Hsu gouges us...
post #4667 of 5097
JUST BOUGHT MINE!!

Would appreciate assistance when it gets here and setting it up:)
post #4668 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

JUST BOUGHT MINE!!

Would appreciate assistance when it gets here and setting it up:)

Congrats!
post #4669 of 5097
Wow that was silly. No way you can build an enclosure as nice as the 15H with its finish for $25. DIY rules performance to $, "it is known" (game of thrones ref. smile.gif)

Tools are $$, time is $$. HSU along with other ID companies sell a nice finished product for the money. They aren't selling snake oil special rubber feet upcharge or power cables...

chalugadp,

I don't know why you chose this particular thread, as your arguments pertain to any finished subwoofer being sold vs. DIY. That being said I really enjoyed your build and will follow your speaker build. You do great work! I am finishing up a new sub system myself and will be moving the 15H's out the theater and into the living room. This is one addictive hobby! eek.gif
post #4670 of 5097
Wow, that gives new meaning to trolling.
post #4671 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by keefy6 View Post

JUST BOUGHT MINE!!

Would appreciate assistance when it gets here and setting it up:)


Congrats!
post #4672 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Low margin .... no way. The driver is 150 bucks , amp 2 to 3 hundred. Wood 25 bucks.
I built my own 18" si sub that crushes my vtf15 I already own. I bought an inuke 3000 with 1100 watts going to the sub and 700 for everything. If you can build your own you soon realize what a ripoff commercial subs are.

Now imagine quitting your current job and sell your DIY's cheaper than HSU and then you will truly appreciate what it takes to run and stay in business and have great customer support as well as one of the best bang for the buck products.
post #4673 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Wow that was silly. No way you can build an enclosure as nice as the 15H with its finish for $25. DIY rules performance to $, "it is known" (game of thrones ref. smile.gif)

Tools are $$, time is $$. HSU along with other ID companies sell a nice finished product for the money. They aren't selling snake oil special rubber feet upcharge or power cables...

chalugadp,

I don't know why you chose this particular thread, as your arguments pertain to any finished subwoofer being sold vs. DIY. That being said I really enjoyed your build and will follow your speaker build. You do great work! I am finishing up a new sub system myself and will be moving the 15H's out the theater and into the living room. This is one addictive hobby! eek.gif

Make sure you post some pics of your diy venture... Luke smile.gif looking forward to seeing your diy results.
post #4674 of 5097
I can't believe the nonsense people are posting here. I got my vtf15 back in September and I had to pay a couple hundred more since I am in Canada. All I can say is it was worth every penny. I really like the comparison of the light company. Anyone can buy a socket and an extension cord for 10 bucks but nobody does. Every one pays for the built lamp. That being said, the adjustment of this sub is what I paid for. I wouldn't know where to start building something like what this sub has where you can change the mode depending on your room. I value my time so for me to spend 100 hours researching acoustics to get similar sound to this, I would rather pay and know it will be good. As far as the 8 extra drains, louder doesn't mean better.
post #4675 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Insano View Post

I can't believe the nonsense people are posting here. I got my vtf15 back in September and I had to pay a couple hundred more since I am in Canada. All I can say is it was worth every penny. I really like the comparison of the light company. Anyone can buy a socket and an extension cord for 10 bucks but nobody does. Every one pays for the built lamp. That being said, the adjustment of this sub is what I paid for. I wouldn't know where to start building something like what this sub has where you can change the mode depending on your room. I value my time so for me to spend 100 hours researching acoustics to get similar sound to this, I would rather pay and know it will be good. As far as the 8 extra drains, louder doesn't mean better.



There are always a couple of guys that like to talk smack and don't believe anything is as good as their sub, whether it be DIY or whatever. The truth is many of us just don't want a DIY sub in our rooms and I seriously doubt the average person could produce a piece as handsome as any Hsu sub or any other good brand of sub. Yeah I know there are some really good DIY subs out there but they aren't for everyone, so to each his own.
post #4676 of 5097
How are you supposed to argue product cost/value/performance comparatively when X says their time is free because they like to do it (therefore it cant be added to cost), yet Y has to pay build costs (labor and benefits)?

Conversation has been ended before it started...
post #4677 of 5097
Just bought a very lightly used VTF15 for my father. Got a nice deal I think!
post #4678 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

Make sure you post some pics of your diy venture... Luke smile.gif looking forward to seeing your diy results.





biggrin.gif
post #4679 of 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post





biggrin.gif



Very nice!
post #4680 of 5097
Nice job Luker! cool.gif
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