Short description of what filming is.
The camera captures light from what's being filmed.
Short description of capturing the light.
The light fits into the area the camera see's it, and not more or less area than that.
The size of the area the light is filmed in changes the size of the light being captured.
Short description of seeing the captured light.
To see the light of what's being filmed you need to see from the area the camera captures it.
It's possible to see the captured light from a different area it was captured in, and when this happens you don't see the captured light exactly as the camera saw it.
The viewer should see the filmed light at the intended size.
If you see the light of what's being filmed from a different area than where the camera was when it captured the light, your seeing the size of the captured light differently than the camera saw it, and this makes the size you see different than the size the camera saw.
So maintaining the area is important when watching the captured light, the quality of the area your watching the film in is judged by whether or not the captured light being seen is the same size the camera filmed it at.
So there is a new term I'll coin - "quality area" .
Short description of Bad Filming - Zoom.
When watching the captured light in a quality area, what's seen is in a naturally proportioned size - Faces don't seem too large that it's strange to see them.
There's a problem when the area is quality and the faces are too large or small when first seen: this creates a problem with motion as well, when they move they seem to move exaggeratedly.
To fix this you would see the persons face at a normal proportion for the area it was filmed in, and then dolly the camera to zoom in or out and so change the area to a larger one or smaller one.
The same thing for the environments foreground and background, it exists in the area the light is captured in.
Short description of Good Filming.
The person or thing is in the area your filming.
The shot begins with the area. The area holds the background and foreground in context of their natural proportion, or you look at the area and everything seems neither too large or small.
The character is then shown within the area.
If the area is not holding the background and foreground in proportion, when the character is first seen he or she is too large or small for what seems natural and the speed the character moves at is also off.
Then with the background and foreground set up so when the character is first shown he or she is in natural proportion, if the person wanders out around the area he or she will stay in proportion: the camera may stay stationary, dolly up to them, or turn following them from one stationary spot.
Think of the area as a web-page and the character as font size. The size of the web-page when you see the font is neither too large or small for what seems natural.
Then the font changes size on the web-page so it becomes either larger or smaller. Seeing the font at a exaggerated size when first seeing the web-page is not seeing it as a natural web-page.
Different text is different size, but there's stationary or regular font size.
Short description of Good Filming using technical details specified in terms of stereoscopic camera geometry as an equivalent of human vision system.
The simple rules are.
• Fixed HFOV field of view of 40 deg, target screen size 48 inch (diagonal) screen.
• The stereo window of the camera is the same size as the target screen.
• The view angle of the camera is the same as the viewer view angle.
• No zoom. Best focus and maximum DOF as permitted by the lens system.
• To project such content on different size of the screen one must simply float the window in or out to transform the stereo-window into its original camera position.
Audio of the text
____________________________________________________________ ____
Mathew Orman and Joe Clark, you two can discusss this threads first post to agree or disagree on points on how a 3D stereoscopic film should be made.
I know people in the movie business read this forum so I thought it would be a good idea to post this topic here. Me and Mr.Orman discussed this over at 3dvision-blog.com already.
__________________________
The above was for Mr.Orman to discuss the making of 3D with Mr.Bloggs, but sofar nobody has wanted to talk to him about making 3D, until now when I read Walter Murch talk about 3D: link
So after reading Walters letter to Roger Ebert I sat down and wrote the following below (I hope Mr.Orman doesn't get upset that somebody else's ideas are presented here besides his own):
3D is the perception of real distance when looking at the screen, 2D accomplished this.
"Once the x- and y-axis are specified, they determine the line along which the z-axis should lie" - wikipedia, Cartesian coordinate system.
This means once you've established the 2D x and y coordinates the z axis may exist.
2D video x and y axis brings a perception that the z axis exists, and this affiliation is seen even though there is only x and y axis.
When you see the z axis but it removes you from the story's immersion, it's because it's showing that the z axis is seen.
Test to show you 3D.
1.) Hold two fingers in front of your left or right eye and form a plus sign +, now you see how to hold your left and right hands, thumbs facing your face, in front of your left or right eye. Remember to keep both eyes open even though your holding your hands in front of only one eye.
2.) Open your computer and Notepad, make notepad full screen and then look at the white screen made by Notepad with your hands in a plus sign +, as described in step one.
3.) Now to see the 3D effect poke your thumb out towards your eye, so the thumb is pointing right in front of your eye, this is the z axis.
Now try without your thumb pointing in front of your eye, this is the x and y axis.
If your trying to see what's going on in Notepad, when your thumb pokes out it takes your attention away from the Notepad screen, doesn't it?
Presbyopia: is a age related eye disorder. What Presbyopia does to the eyes is it progressively diminishes the eyes ability to focus on near objects.
The problem of 3D TV, is that the audience must focus accommodation their eyes at the plane of the screen -- say it is 80 feet away. This is constant no matter what.
But their eyes must converge at perhaps 10 feet away, then 60 feet, then 120 feet, and so on, depending on what the illusion is.
Most people over the age of 50 lose the ability to link convergence and accommodation cues, due to Presbyopia.
All living things with eyes have always focussed and converged at the same point.
When the convergence changes, the eyes focus there. With Presbyopia the convergence changes, the convergence will be further in, but the focus cannot follow it.
This makes the mind concentrate on the convergence and not on the focus.
How this fits into films is if the mind concentrates on convergence and not focus the person identifies the video as 3D, or immersive, but if the mind focuses on the convergence and focus at the same time then there is zero parallax and so no 3D effect or immersion from positive and negative parallax.
The young eyes can see convergence and focus at close range, but the old eyes cannot because of Presbyopia, so the old eyes have the effect that 3D offers, and not 2D.
The Brechtian trick described by Walter Murch.
"Brecht created an influential theory of theatre, the epic theatre, wherein a play should not cause the spectator to emotionally identify with the action before him or her, but should instead provoke rational self-reflection and a critical view of the actions on the stage.
For this purpose, Brecht employed the use of techniques that remind the spectator that the play is a representation of reality and not reality itself [...]. Such techniques included the direct address by actors to the audience, exaggerated, unnatural stage lighting, the use of song, and explanatory placards." - wikipedia.
To fix this Brechtian effect the z axis brings to video, you wave the z axis back and forth, gently: this waving motion breaks the focus on the z axis and then the focus goes back to the x and y axis presentation.
It matters if you wave the z axis in a 360 degree circle as compared to moving in either the x or y directions.
When you wave the z axis in a circle the focus remains on the z axis, but wave the z axis in either the x or y axis direction and the focus moves away from the z axis.
To test this, do the 3D test described before, but this time wave the hands around to the left and right, then up and down, then in a circle -You will see the Notepad screen becomes more or less visible.
Back to discussing 3D displays now, on a volumetric 3D video, the z axis when shown can be put into context of the x and y axis, because the eyes look at the z axis, then they look at the x and y axis.
To move the eyes from the z to the x and y axis, and keep focus, the eyes do not move in a circular direction - like your rolling your eyeballs in your head.
So, to define what 3D effect is : The mind concentrates on the convergence, then back to the focus and convergence, because concentrating on only the convergence and not convergence and focus may create the Brechtian distraction: not being able to focus on the convergence and accomodation seen in 2D is not a good thing, it's old man eyes.
Wikipedia says the root word of Presbyopia is Old man + sightedness, it sets in at around 40+ years of age: some people think 3D is Awesome, so old man eyes may make the world look Awesome, making the concerns 2D brings moot.
To tell a story, contrast zero parallax with positive and negative parallax: the main story running time is made up of over the top Brechtian theater - when the plot driven part of the story is shown, it gives feedback to this. Seeing convergence and focus in a 3D film is seeing 2D, or zero parallax - there is no Brechtian effect from the z axis, it's all story driven.
The story is told in z axis 3D, then 2D shows this story in a new light. In subliminal marketing, it may be that one characteristic of the topic subject is bolded and another characteristic is muted: the bolded characteristic is in 2D and the muted characteristic is in z axis 3D. 3D (Brechtian effect), gives a critical view of what happens in 2D.
Audio version
The camera captures light from what's being filmed.
Short description of capturing the light.
The light fits into the area the camera see's it, and not more or less area than that.
The size of the area the light is filmed in changes the size of the light being captured.
Short description of seeing the captured light.
To see the light of what's being filmed you need to see from the area the camera captures it.
It's possible to see the captured light from a different area it was captured in, and when this happens you don't see the captured light exactly as the camera saw it.
The viewer should see the filmed light at the intended size.
If you see the light of what's being filmed from a different area than where the camera was when it captured the light, your seeing the size of the captured light differently than the camera saw it, and this makes the size you see different than the size the camera saw.
So maintaining the area is important when watching the captured light, the quality of the area your watching the film in is judged by whether or not the captured light being seen is the same size the camera filmed it at.
So there is a new term I'll coin - "quality area" .
Short description of Bad Filming - Zoom.
When watching the captured light in a quality area, what's seen is in a naturally proportioned size - Faces don't seem too large that it's strange to see them.
There's a problem when the area is quality and the faces are too large or small when first seen: this creates a problem with motion as well, when they move they seem to move exaggeratedly.
To fix this you would see the persons face at a normal proportion for the area it was filmed in, and then dolly the camera to zoom in or out and so change the area to a larger one or smaller one.
The same thing for the environments foreground and background, it exists in the area the light is captured in.
Short description of Good Filming.
The person or thing is in the area your filming.
The shot begins with the area. The area holds the background and foreground in context of their natural proportion, or you look at the area and everything seems neither too large or small.
The character is then shown within the area.
If the area is not holding the background and foreground in proportion, when the character is first seen he or she is too large or small for what seems natural and the speed the character moves at is also off.
Then with the background and foreground set up so when the character is first shown he or she is in natural proportion, if the person wanders out around the area he or she will stay in proportion: the camera may stay stationary, dolly up to them, or turn following them from one stationary spot.
Think of the area as a web-page and the character as font size. The size of the web-page when you see the font is neither too large or small for what seems natural.
Then the font changes size on the web-page so it becomes either larger or smaller. Seeing the font at a exaggerated size when first seeing the web-page is not seeing it as a natural web-page.
Different text is different size, but there's stationary or regular font size.
Short description of Good Filming using technical details specified in terms of stereoscopic camera geometry as an equivalent of human vision system.
The simple rules are.
• Fixed HFOV field of view of 40 deg, target screen size 48 inch (diagonal) screen.
• The stereo window of the camera is the same size as the target screen.
• The view angle of the camera is the same as the viewer view angle.
• No zoom. Best focus and maximum DOF as permitted by the lens system.
• To project such content on different size of the screen one must simply float the window in or out to transform the stereo-window into its original camera position.
Audio of the text
____________________________________________________________ ____
Mathew Orman and Joe Clark, you two can discusss this threads first post to agree or disagree on points on how a 3D stereoscopic film should be made.
I know people in the movie business read this forum so I thought it would be a good idea to post this topic here. Me and Mr.Orman discussed this over at 3dvision-blog.com already.
__________________________
The above was for Mr.Orman to discuss the making of 3D with Mr.Bloggs, but sofar nobody has wanted to talk to him about making 3D, until now when I read Walter Murch talk about 3D: link
So after reading Walters letter to Roger Ebert I sat down and wrote the following below (I hope Mr.Orman doesn't get upset that somebody else's ideas are presented here besides his own):
3D is the perception of real distance when looking at the screen, 2D accomplished this.
"Once the x- and y-axis are specified, they determine the line along which the z-axis should lie" - wikipedia, Cartesian coordinate system.
This means once you've established the 2D x and y coordinates the z axis may exist.
2D video x and y axis brings a perception that the z axis exists, and this affiliation is seen even though there is only x and y axis.
When you see the z axis but it removes you from the story's immersion, it's because it's showing that the z axis is seen.
Test to show you 3D.
1.) Hold two fingers in front of your left or right eye and form a plus sign +, now you see how to hold your left and right hands, thumbs facing your face, in front of your left or right eye. Remember to keep both eyes open even though your holding your hands in front of only one eye.
2.) Open your computer and Notepad, make notepad full screen and then look at the white screen made by Notepad with your hands in a plus sign +, as described in step one.
3.) Now to see the 3D effect poke your thumb out towards your eye, so the thumb is pointing right in front of your eye, this is the z axis.
Now try without your thumb pointing in front of your eye, this is the x and y axis.
If your trying to see what's going on in Notepad, when your thumb pokes out it takes your attention away from the Notepad screen, doesn't it?
Presbyopia: is a age related eye disorder. What Presbyopia does to the eyes is it progressively diminishes the eyes ability to focus on near objects.
The problem of 3D TV, is that the audience must focus accommodation their eyes at the plane of the screen -- say it is 80 feet away. This is constant no matter what.
But their eyes must converge at perhaps 10 feet away, then 60 feet, then 120 feet, and so on, depending on what the illusion is.
Most people over the age of 50 lose the ability to link convergence and accommodation cues, due to Presbyopia.
All living things with eyes have always focussed and converged at the same point.
When the convergence changes, the eyes focus there. With Presbyopia the convergence changes, the convergence will be further in, but the focus cannot follow it.
This makes the mind concentrate on the convergence and not on the focus.
How this fits into films is if the mind concentrates on convergence and not focus the person identifies the video as 3D, or immersive, but if the mind focuses on the convergence and focus at the same time then there is zero parallax and so no 3D effect or immersion from positive and negative parallax.
The young eyes can see convergence and focus at close range, but the old eyes cannot because of Presbyopia, so the old eyes have the effect that 3D offers, and not 2D.
The Brechtian trick described by Walter Murch.
"Brecht created an influential theory of theatre, the epic theatre, wherein a play should not cause the spectator to emotionally identify with the action before him or her, but should instead provoke rational self-reflection and a critical view of the actions on the stage.
For this purpose, Brecht employed the use of techniques that remind the spectator that the play is a representation of reality and not reality itself [...]. Such techniques included the direct address by actors to the audience, exaggerated, unnatural stage lighting, the use of song, and explanatory placards." - wikipedia.
To fix this Brechtian effect the z axis brings to video, you wave the z axis back and forth, gently: this waving motion breaks the focus on the z axis and then the focus goes back to the x and y axis presentation.
It matters if you wave the z axis in a 360 degree circle as compared to moving in either the x or y directions.
When you wave the z axis in a circle the focus remains on the z axis, but wave the z axis in either the x or y axis direction and the focus moves away from the z axis.
To test this, do the 3D test described before, but this time wave the hands around to the left and right, then up and down, then in a circle -You will see the Notepad screen becomes more or less visible.
Back to discussing 3D displays now, on a volumetric 3D video, the z axis when shown can be put into context of the x and y axis, because the eyes look at the z axis, then they look at the x and y axis.
To move the eyes from the z to the x and y axis, and keep focus, the eyes do not move in a circular direction - like your rolling your eyeballs in your head.
So, to define what 3D effect is : The mind concentrates on the convergence, then back to the focus and convergence, because concentrating on only the convergence and not convergence and focus may create the Brechtian distraction: not being able to focus on the convergence and accomodation seen in 2D is not a good thing, it's old man eyes.
Wikipedia says the root word of Presbyopia is Old man + sightedness, it sets in at around 40+ years of age: some people think 3D is Awesome, so old man eyes may make the world look Awesome, making the concerns 2D brings moot.
To tell a story, contrast zero parallax with positive and negative parallax: the main story running time is made up of over the top Brechtian theater - when the plot driven part of the story is shown, it gives feedback to this. Seeing convergence and focus in a 3D film is seeing 2D, or zero parallax - there is no Brechtian effect from the z axis, it's all story driven.
The story is told in z axis 3D, then 2D shows this story in a new light. In subliminal marketing, it may be that one characteristic of the topic subject is bolded and another characteristic is muted: the bolded characteristic is in 2D and the muted characteristic is in z axis 3D. 3D (Brechtian effect), gives a critical view of what happens in 2D.
Audio version
