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Katzenberg and Cameron in a box-The future of 2-D to 3d conversion,and of HT itself . - Page 3

post #61 of 127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post
MILF Drillers in the Guggenheim.
A cherché character study no doubt...
post #62 of 127
Thread Starter 
Date of Release:
Authors:

Publisher:
Number of Pages:
Number of Tables:
Number of Figures:

May 2010
Dale H. Maunu, Chris Chinnock,
Norbert Hildebrand
Insight Media
75
2
29

The Need:
The 2010 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, NV brought to the forefront how far the technology of S-3D has advanced; major consumer electronics brands such as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Vizio, Sharp, Toshiba, LG and others demonstrated state-of-the-art 3D technologies that are ready for mass production in consumer products. The establishment of Stereoscopic 3D specifications for Blu-ray (optical storage and distribution) and HDMI (data transport) from host (Blu-ray Player, Set-Top-Box, Video Game Console, etc.) to the 3D-capable television enables the creation of 3D products with the plug-and-play functionality expected by consumers. Major 3D content channels and distribution deals have been announced by ESPN, DirecTV and the Discovery Channel, and there is much behind-the-scenes activity at the cable providers. And, NAB'10 confirmed that all parts of the content creation, production and distribution infrastructure are getting behind the roll out of 3D content to the home in 2010.

In the near term, however, there is very little content available for the consumer to enjoy on their new 3DTVs. A possible solution is converting existing 2D content to 3D. Such conversions can be done in real time, in near real time and in a time consuming off-line process. The quality is basically commensurate with the level of effort, with the real time solutions producing the lowest quality conversions. However, because there are many potential platforms where real time conversion can be embedded (3DTVs, Blu-ray Players, Set-Top-Boxes, etc.), this report focuses on this aspect of the conversion industry.
Report Objective:
The objective of this report is to give product planners and technologists involved with 3DTV in the home the information they need to make decisions about the incorporation of real-time 2D-to-3D conversion technology in future products. In addition, by looking at near real time and off line conversion techniques, we can offer a view of the development path this technology will follow.

The report is organized to provide a detailed look at the need for real-time 2D-to-3D conversion, the techniques for performing the conversion and a forecast for products including this feature. Additionally, the report provides useful information about the companies involved in real-time 2D-to-3D conversion and the alliances that have formed between them.



Methodology
Insight Media's approach to forecasting is unique and transparent. We have established a methodology of analyzing the market by considering the needs that are important to the consumer or OEM and by rating how well the products meet those needs today and in the future. We use the results of these analyses to guide us in developing our forecasts. The transparency comes from the detailed explanation of all assumptions used in creating the forecast. We do not provide a number without a detailed supporting explanation.

Who Should Buy:

3DTV Set Makers and Suppliers
Blu-ray Player Makers and Suppliers
Set-Top-Box Makers and Suppliers
SoC and Media Processor Developers and Suppliers
Internet, Cable, Broadcast and Satellite Delivery Companies and Supply Chains
Developers of real time, near real time and off line conversion technology
Investors looking for information to support due diligence
Deliverable:
This report is delivered as a PDF file under a site license agreement.
post #63 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

3D kicks ass! I'm with peter on this one

I'm replacing my home theater with dual projection circular polarized 3D in Q1 2011 (using 3D-XLs for stereo-demultiplexing), have an Optoma HD66 for the living room that will be upgraded to 3D when the 3D-XL is released, and use an Acer 3D Vision computer monitor.

3D is the way of the future.

I would kill to have a 3D-XL setup in my home theater!
post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Date of Release:
Authors:

Publisher:
Number of Pages:
Number of Tables:
Number of Figures:

May 2010
Dale H. Maunu, Chris Chinnock,
Norbert Hildebrand
Insight Media
75
2
29

The Need:
The 2010 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, NV brought to the forefront how far the technology of S-3D has advanced; major consumer electronics brands such as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Vizio, Sharp, Toshiba, LG and others demonstrated state-of-the-art 3D technologies that are ready for mass production in consumer products. The establishment of Stereoscopic 3D specifications for Blu-ray (optical storage and distribution) and HDMI (data transport) from host (Blu-ray Player, Set-Top-Box, Video Game Console, etc.) to the 3D-capable television enables the creation of 3D products with the plug-and-play functionality expected by consumers. Major 3D content channels and distribution deals have been announced by ESPN, DirecTV and the Discovery Channel, and there is much behind-the-scenes activity at the cable providers. And, NAB'10 confirmed that all parts of the content creation, production and distribution infrastructure are getting behind the roll out of 3D content to the home in 2010.

In the near term, however, there is very little content available for the consumer to enjoy on their new 3DTVs. A possible solution is converting existing 2D content to 3D. Such conversions can be done in real time, in near real time and in a time consuming off-line process. The quality is basically commensurate with the level of effort, with the real time solutions producing the lowest quality conversions. However, because there are many potential platforms where real time conversion can be embedded (3DTVs, Blu-ray Players, Set-Top-Boxes, etc.), this report focuses on this aspect of the conversion industry.
Report Objective:
The objective of this report is to give product planners and technologists involved with 3DTV in the home the information they need to make decisions about the incorporation of real-time 2D-to-3D conversion technology in future products. In addition, by looking at near real time and off line conversion techniques, we can offer a view of the development path this technology will follow.

The report is organized to provide a detailed look at the need for real-time 2D-to-3D conversion, the techniques for performing the conversion and a forecast for products including this feature. Additionally, the report provides useful information about the companies involved in real-time 2D-to-3D conversion and the alliances that have formed between them.



Methodology
Insight Media's approach to forecasting is unique and transparent. We have established a methodology of analyzing the market by considering the needs that are important to the consumer or OEM and by rating how well the products meet those needs today and in the future. We use the results of these analyses to guide us in developing our forecasts. The transparency comes from the detailed explanation of all assumptions used in creating the forecast. We do not provide a number without a detailed supporting explanation.

Who Should Buy:

3DTV Set Makers and Suppliers
Blu-ray Player Makers and Suppliers
Set-Top-Box Makers and Suppliers
SoC and Media Processor Developers and Suppliers
Internet, Cable, Broadcast and Satellite Delivery Companies and Supply Chains
Developers of real time, near real time and off line conversion technology
Investors looking for information to support due diligence
Deliverable:
This report is delivered as a PDF file under a site license agreement.

Hellya! I can't wait until 2D to 3D conversion systems are available to the masses. All hail 3D!!!
post #65 of 127
Peter, 40% off on all its reports in a Black Friday sale, looking to prop the 2010 numbers.
post #66 of 127
Thread Starter 
post #67 of 127
Thread Starter 
Found this...



Now you believe me?
LL
post #68 of 127
Hello,

Looking at this system it seems to use a pair of Teranex VC-100 processors together with three pieces of Teranex software,VC1-2D-3D, VC1-3D-ENC and VC1-3D-DEC. Based on what I've seen I understand the VC-100 Dual Channel as a platform is around $19,000 per unit, but I've seen no suggestion of a price on the software. Does anyone know what the software will be coming in at? Hopefully this setup will be on display in the UK sometime soon.

I have no doubt this is a truly stunning system, and probably the best there is right now (I remember my response the first time I saw a Teranex scaler in operation on a pair of stacked, 9" Barco projectors. WOW!! I also remember the dental bills needed to fix my teeth after my jaw slammed into the floor ) The Teranex is a stunning scaler, but looking at the Reon and Realta chipsets, they have managed to capture a very large proportion of the performance of a stand alone scaler in a relatively affordable chipset.

I only hope that this technology follows a similar trajectory so that in 5 years time we can see this kind of quality of 2D - 3D conversion in AV Receivers, Blu-Ray players and possible even compact, stand alone boxes.

Regards,

Dave
post #69 of 127
Thread Starter 
Hardware and software bundle starts at 38.
post #70 of 127
Hello,

Thanks for the pricing update Peter. It's still costly but not as bad as I thought.

Roll on integration into a Teranex chipset for domestic consumption.

Best wishes,

Dave
post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Hardware and software bundle starts at 38.

Just had to put some thoughts in this thread!

First off, I think everyone on this forum is pretty passionate about what they do or want with home theater. So I see some of the interactions and chuckle sometimes, because I think one person's statement of what they do or don't like is not necessarily a criticism of anyone else.

I, for one, appreciate your passion for this stuff, and watch your posts for stuff to look out for in the future. I've also see some of your demos at CEDIA, CES etc. Very nice.

I am DYING for this box - but of course, I'm not necessarily in the market at 38 (gulp) - I'd drop 10 K in a flash to add this to the 2 projector 3D system I'm building tho!

Any thoughts from Teranex on when this stuff may start to trickle down into custom asics?

As far as 3D is concerned.. sure, it isn't "necessarily" the end-all, be all, BUT I LIKE it! I will always buy native 3D content over converted, or the 2D versions. But there is also SO MUCH 2D content that I wish I could watch in GOOD 3D quality.

I'm VERY excited by this development... I want it NOW!
post #72 of 127
Thread Starter 
Hi RDjam, I have had a lot of wow moments with this box, I think I experienced what James Cameron found when he tried running the Titanic sailing footage through his dimensionalisation machine, I know why he decided to go ahead with the conversion. I saw what he must have seen when i played "a Thin Red Line" front to back on the teranex, there are several scenes of navy ships cutting water and only there does your brain finally get the true scale of these huge ships and the majesty of them cutting water.

With Titanic you will have to wait, with the teranex you wont.


And I really wish that the projector companies triple hell bent on copying me through reverse engineering my posts in these forums, by sending mystery shoppers (like their distributor in India) and one stooping to spying on my confidential communications (as I am a blogger=reporter that makes them federal criminals) -I really wish they did their own R&D -a__holes!

If it weren't for them id really share, but one thing the way this works the process is so sophisticated the video delays are substantial, which means you need a professional surround processor like the datasat ap-20 to handle such long delay memories.
post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If it weren't for them id really share, but one thing the way this works the process is so sophisticated the video delays are substantial, which means you need a professional surround processor like the datasat ap-20 to handle such long delay memories.

That is NOT a problem - I wouldn't mind having to worry about delaying the sound. I am assuming that this box could probably do FI frame rate conversion and output two 60p streams as well if desired, instead of 24p?

Good luck with your competitors - don't let them grind you down!
post #74 of 127
Thread Starter 
While you can get semidecent 3-D from doubleflash
60p streams are not the ideal way to see a 24 fps movie, the Barco will take the 2 x 24 and triple flash it to 144, it will also triple flash 60 to 180(have not seen yet but could be good for pc gaming). Otherwise with 120 hz doubleflash the cadence will look wierd, like on the Christie real d 120 setup shown last year at infocomm in 3-D alley, there ones eyes rejected the 120 double flash cadence after having getting used to the big boy 3-D demos.
post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

While you can get semidecent 3-D from doubleflash
60p streams are not the ideal way to see a 24 fps movie, the Barco will take the 2 x 24 and triple flash it to 144, it will also triple flash 60 to 180(have not seen yet but could be good for pc gaming). Otherwise with 120 hz doubleflash the cadence will look wierd, like on the Christie real d 120 setup shown last year at infocomm in 3-D alley, there ones eyes rejected the 120 double flash cadence after having getting used to the big boy 3-D demos.

Yes I agree. 24p shown at 60p is generally not optimal. To correctly convert 24p to 60p for 3D, a box like the Teranex would have to frame interpolate the 24p and create the new frames to 120p, then drop every other frame.

Of course, I don't know if they have done anything like that, but it would give you perfect 60p for each eye with a dual projector setup, without having to suffer 3:2 pulldown. Some projectors could also FI this new 60p stream to 120p per eye after the 60p is fed in.

The stuff that you are doing is probably far beyond this, but this is probably the ultimate scenario for the homebuilt system I am playing with.
post #76 of 127
Darn it Peter! I'm having flashbacks to the 90's when I lusted after Faroudja Quadrupler video processors on Barco 9" projectors! Only now it's Teranex/Doremi 3D processors on Barco 3D projectors!!! :O
post #77 of 127
I'm worried now . . . I was hoping that I could, at least, maybe enjoy watching hd porn using the 2D-3D conversion on my new Panny P50GT25 arriving in a few days. The glasses are already here, and they feel very comfy on top of my own prescriptions.
post #78 of 127
Thread Starter 
Well thank you for ruining a perfectly interesting and ground breaking thread with your description of the self satisfaction ergonomics of 3D glasses.
post #79 of 127
The thread seemed to be sputtering . . . I'm trying.

Seriously though, your exuberance has inspired me! I'm almost a complete 3D virgin (I did see 3D once at Disney with my daughters ... something with a bee in it, it think). Oh I am sorry, I do fondly remember the anaglyphic Creature from the Black Lagoon.

I so want 3D to be great, at least as mind expanding as the leap from stereo to quad and now 5.1, 7.1, etc. I flashback every time I listen to a finely crafted Steely Dan Surround (though that era was more drenched in freeze phlegm and not nearly as memorable as the Hendrix era). I'm squirming with anticipation at the arrival of my new toy tomorrow in hopes that I can realize somewhat of a similar sensation.

Speaking of expansion/conversion, have you heard the GART 5.0 Electric Ladyland? It is a fine exposition of what can be done to convert stereo source to surround sound (sans chip processors) even if I do say so myself.
post #80 of 127
Thread Starter 



LL
LL
post #81 of 127
Unfortunately items 2 and 8 are happening far too often.

Strange that the chart does not show the 20% safe area around the edges as mentioned during Certifi3D session I attended.
post #82 of 127
Thread Starter 
Software and firmware upgraded today. Huge improvement.


Now you have full proc amp TERANEX quality on the 3D before it was hard to effect. Great Images.

Dimensionalisation algorythms improved, -2 FX setting is factory demo mode, to that you can add depth from 0 to 12.
post #83 of 127
Thread Starter 
Here are pics of the New Jeff Beck concert.

I switched to a VIZIO passive lcd 3d display to be able to program the presets for the Barco P series that is till to be manufactured.

I really don't like the active solution for the gen 1 LCD panels, despite the stair-stepping and jaggies seen at close proximity, the solidity of the Vizio 65" in 3D is fantastic!

Here is a very natural looking concert footage on the teranex vc-100 2>3D.




LL
LL
post #84 of 127
Cineramax,

it's a breath of fresh air when I hear people, especialy someone at your calibre, chooses passive 3D over active 3D. Too many people dismissed passive 3D before trying it because "it's not 1080p". I'd rather deal with half-res than flickers.
post #85 of 127
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the kind words David.

If I had to do a whole house of tv's, most would be passive 65's and maybe a couple of active 85" (because it's the only option). No doubt that passive is the most comfortable and ghost free.

The Vizio glasses are 8 grams versus 80 for the Samsung's. It does get heavy on the schnoze if you have to sit there for a week evaluating 200 blu-ray on the fly 3-D conversions. After 40 hours on the samsung my left eye muscle hurt.

With the vizio glasses I have dozed off without remembering I still clad them.

Another advantage of Circular Polarized is that there are some very good optics coming out, experimenting with the RealD clip-ons over standard Walgreens 1.5 reading glasses I got a glimpse at the very high end in 3D, RX 3D.

Only circular polarization or infitec will have a high MTF solution for this.

The active RX glasses will use an incremental optical layer to further reduce the already compromised MTF (speaking based mostly on the samsungs that I have to keep on buying in order to get MvA, Shrek and now Megamind)
LL
post #86 of 127
Thread Starter 
Clinical Study Finds 3D Blu-ray Stimulating
By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 3/31/2011


London - In case you needed clinical documentation, a team of neurological researchers here has determined that 3D Blu-ray delivers an enhanced emotional entertainment experience that engages viewers more than standard Blu-ray Disc or DVD -- at least in England -- according to a new study.

Working on behalf of the European Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), the Mindlab International team at the Sussex Innovation Centre, Brighton, tested over three days last November, 24 subjects evenly split between males and females between the ages of 18 and 54 years old.

Test participants watched three clips in all three formats (3D Blu-ray, 2D Blu-ray and 2D DVD) from 90 to 180 seconds in length. The clips were all from major Hollywood studio produced films from the last 12 months covering three different genres.

The team measured skin conductance (electro-dermal activity EDA), which is a sensitive psychophysiological index of changes in sympathetic autonomic arousal that is integrated with emotional and cognitive states, using small electrodes attached to two fingers of the non-dominant hand.

In addition, brain activity was measured using EEG to distinguish attention, and emotion direction (approach or withdrawal response determining positive or negative reactions).

The result: the 3D Blu-ray format was the most effective, followed by Blu-ray Disc and then DVD.

The study findings were released in conjunction with new Blu-ray Disc sales figures conducted by Futuresource Consulting, showing that the total European market for Blu-ray Disc sales in 2010 was 45 million units, virtually double 2009's figure, according to the European BDA.

With the U.K. sales accounting for nearly 30 percent (13 million sales) of the European total and more 3D content now making the transition from cinemas to the home, Blu-ray's popularity within the U.K. looks set to continue in 2011, the Euro BDA said.

After comparing the total attention levels for each format, the study results showed that on average, subjects were 12 percent more attentive when watching Blu-ray 3D compared with a Blu-ray Disc, and 17 percent more attentive when watching a Blu-ray Disc over a standard DVD. When comparing attention levels between Blu-ray 3D and a DVD, attention levels jumped by an incredible 29 percent.

For emotional response, "a significant increase" was determined when watching Blu-ray over DVD, but peaked with 3D Blu-Ray at an 8 percent increase when watching 3D Blu-ray compared to DVD.

Audiences were 7 percent more engaged when watching 3D Blu-ray over a Blu-ray Disc, and 12 percent more engaged when watching a Blu-ray Disc over a standard DVD.

When comparing engagement levels between Blu-ray 3D and a DVD, subjects were found to be 18 percent more engaged with 3D Blu-ray.

"This study shows that Blu-ray isn't just a huge step up technically, it also delivers a better and more engaging viewing experience in the home. When you watch a Blu-ray Disc, you feel every moment with more emotion, drama and excitement. When you add 3D to the mix, it only enhances the experience further," stated Graham Heaton, European BDA promotions committee chairman.

"This study has shown how format change affects the viewer on both a conscious and a non-conscious level. The sharper contrast of the Blu-ray formats allows the brain to process more of what is being seen as less effort is needed to focus on certain objects," said Duncan Smith, Mindlab International managing director. "3D is a fully immersive format, increasing engagement in viewers. The fact that subjects were witnessed as having increased eye movement and head movement is testament to this. The 3D technology draws attention to peripheral images on the screen and, coupled with Blu-ray quality definition, it is able to deliver footage that increases engagement and emotional response over all other formats".

"Psychological research into perception suggests that the brain inherently prefers 3D images and interprets 2D images as 3D where possible," said David Lewis-Hodgson, Mindlab chairman and research director. "This makes evolutionary sense since the real world is 3D; 2D images such as images in print or on screen have existed only since our vision perception evolved to the stage at which it is now. As evidence suggests that humans decode visual information as 3D, we can therefore infer that actual 3D images are more pleasing to the visual system than traditional 2D images."


LL
post #87 of 127
I wonder if these numbers might have been even higher if they'd chosen different 3D titles. Regardless, it's a study I can believe, because it matches my own experience while watching 3D content. I've said this here at 3D Central before - I have a physiological reaction to 3D that is different than my physiological reaction to 2D. I don't have the tools to measure it, but I know it's real. I have no doubt that future studies will be able to verify that there is indeed a quantifiable difference.
post #88 of 127
Thread Starter 
Now go rent the 3D version of TRON and you will get the exact same effect on the TERANEX UP CONVERSION or even a bit better than this DISC.


DISNEY: BUSTED!
post #89 of 127
You're saying that Disney didn't actually record the movie in 3D and use Teranex or Teranex-like vonverter only?
post #90 of 127
Thread Starter 
Worse they paid a bunch of morons ( with the exception of Laser Pacific who just mastered the disc competently)to waste their time to deliver something softer and less detailed than what the TERANEX COULD HAVE DONE. At least on the majority of scenes for sure!!!

Precisely what I tried to articulate to Cameron during my 4 minute one on one argument at Cinemacon, at least have one of these Teranex units in your home and compare with the product subbed-out to IN THREE : a very dangerous company (loose cannons on deck), their product IS WAY TOO SOFT they use noise reduction and ghostbusting and like Alice it's all flat and soft, well at least Alice had CGI pop touches.

A list Hollywood Directors it's time to pony up for CINERAMAX teranex powered conversion rig. I am not marketing but I alone know the secret sauce. Would hate to have more incomplete reverse engineering hackjobs than we already have from 2 projector HUSHBOX DCI VAR/manufacturers.

Here read it from their press release:
Digital Domain studios in California and Vancouver recently completed production on Walt Disney Studios’ TRON: Legacy, which was generated and produced in stereoscopic 3-D. In-Three completed 3-D stereo work on Tim Burton’s visionary blockbuster Alice in Wonderland, which grossed over $1 billion at the worldwide box office.

“For over 10 years we have been intensely focused on bringing rich and immersive 3-D images to the screen,” said Neil Feldman, In-Three CEO. “We are excited to work with Digital Domain to deliver quality 3-D stereo entertainment experiences for today’s audiences.”

“3-D stereo movies exploded on the market this year,” added Digital Domain CEO Cliff Plumer. “Alice in Wonderland was a visually amazing 3-D immersive experience, and TRON: Legacy will end the year with another dazzling 3-D entertainment event. I have known Neil and the talented artists and technologists at In-Three for a long time. We will collaborate to provide the highest quality 3-D stereo solutions to filmmakers.”


Just found out the truth.
Do I know MY 3D or do I know my 3D?

IN THREE is not competent enough to deserve owning the rights to the term DIMENZIONALIZATION.


We need more people like ERIC BREVIG (JOURNEY/YOGI B) directing 3D films, enough of choking off the frontal lobe of the percival zone of comfort, be that they are following 75 year old German 3D compositional rules or not.


In 5 years people will have Teranex technology in the home- what is wrong with the fvcking studios?

I am going to setup a challenge and throw down a challenge to show these studio execs that appear to simply have no clue, OR INTEREST in their GOLDEN GOOSE.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › Katzenberg and Cameron in a box-The future of 2-D to 3d conversion,and of HT itself .