Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 38

Mine is permanently attached so that won't make any difference.
John

I have been thinking about that a lot. Much of speaker selection depends on the room and the WAF. Economically bookshelf speakers are less expensive than towers. I will probably be going with bookshelf speakers for the fronts, a dedicated center channel, a large subwoofer, and ceiling mounted surrounds. I would start with a 5.1 system, maybe go to 7.1 in the future. I have always been partial to bookshelf speakers over towers anyways.

There are folks using the latest VMWare Fusion to run the Anthem applications connected to the AVM 50v or Statement D2 processors. It works fine.

However in the PRIOR version of Fusion, there were reports that the Keyspan adapter was not working correctly under XP. Folks found that a Belkin adapter was a better choice. Belkin model F5U409-CU.

I don't know whether that holds true for the newest version of Fusion. But if you have problems making the Keyspan work, try that Belkin adapter. Uninstall the Keyspan driver before installing the Belkin, and reboot after each such uninstall and new install.
--Bob

The historic limitations you are talking about were in the content. Producers were only mixing a small range of audio frequencies into the content's surround channels because the early surround content was "ambience only". There wasn't any content in there that was intended to attract your attention. In many cases this was due to the surround content being built up by processing stereo masters. And since they were "creating" the surround channels in processing like that, they couldn't be too aggressive about what they tried to put in there.

That is no longer the case.

Modern surround tracks contain full range content all the way around the room. Aggressive surround tracks in movies are now the norm -- with things going on in the surround channels that are intended to attract your attention. The surrounds no longer just fill in the "ambience".

And surround sound processing algorithms like PLIIx (which can raise 2.0 content to 5.1 or 7.1 speakers of output) have also gotten more aggressive in what they will "create" for those surround channels.

Multi-channel music formats, like SACD, also assume you have high quality speakers all the way around.

So that means you really should try to get quality speakers for the surrounds and you should pay attention to timbre matching your front speakers and your surrounds so that sounds that pan around the room don't change in an unnatural fashion just because they've moved into the next speaker.

But NONE of your speakers need to be "full range" in the sense that they can also handle bass all the way down. If you have a competent subwoofer, ARC will see to it that your sub supports all of your speakers -- handling their bass for them. The sub will also handle the LFE (bass sound effects content) -- the ".1" in "5.1" for example. ARC takes care of the blending and the transitions from each speaker to the sub.

ARC can do this because bass frequencies are "non-localizable". I.e., the bass appears to be coming from all around you rather than from any given speaker (including the sub itself). So the sub can be just about anywhere and still do its job of handling the lower frequencies that would otherwise have to come out of individual speakers.
--Bob

Since you have Fusion installed, give it a try, someone here said they got it to work. If it works for you great, if not then install and run Windows via bootcamp.

If the problem with his analog was that the analog input levels were not set properly between the Source and the MRX you would not expect the problem to show up when using the internal tuner, as of course Anthem would have matched that as part of the design.

If the problem is a bug -- for example if Dolby Volume was mistakenly active for his analog sources even though he had it turned OFF -- then it is not clear whether it would affect the tuner.

I'd like to see that his analog input levels were correct, and then start looking for bugs -- or possibly even a hardware failure in the analog digitizer in his MRX. The type of gross quality change he is describing should *NOT* exist between the analog and digital inputs.
--Bob

Even before I connected my ethernet cable, I was able to get to the media screen and see the settings screen, so for now I would be looking at why you can't get the Media screens to come up on your TV.

Since your getting a black screen, the first thing I would try is from a soruce you can see the setup screens, go into setup and under "Audio/Video Setup and Presets" see how the Video Output Configuration is set for soruce 7 (Media). Maybe it somehow got changed to a different video out.

-Bruce

I've had my MRX500 for a week now and have made decent progress in dialing it in thanks in large part to this AVS thread.... However, the amount of flexibility leaves me wondering how my settings compare to others.

I currently have 2 sources input to the receiver via HDMI:
1. Oppo BDP-83 with PCM selected.
2. Dish Network receiver, ViP622DVR, set to Dolby Digital/PCM (Dolby Digital if it exists otherwise PCM).

My Listening Mode Presets are the same for both:

Audio Signal	Selection
2.0	AnthemLogic-Cinema
2.0 DD Surround	PLII Movie
Multi Channel PCM	None
5.1 Dolby Digital	None
Dolby Digital Surround EX	Same as Dolby D-5.1
5.1 DTS	None
DTS-ES	Same as DTS-5.1

I would appreciate any feedback.

That makes sense to me if you have a 5.1 speaker setup.

If you have a 7.1 speaker setup, you may want a surround mode for some of those "None" choices so that 5.1 content input gets raised to 7.1 speaker output.
--Bob

One thing I have not seen you address RE the BR player is the difference in BR and DVD media. A DVD that carries a 480i native "picture" requires a lot more processing than a BR disk that is native at 1080P, DVD is where the video processing is most tricky. Also the content source, film at 24 fps or video at 30 fps which is a multiple of the native display refresh is a factor (think 60 hz power in US). Where in the video path the signal gets to your displays native video resolution determines where money might be spent. There has not been much said about Video up conversion on this thread RE the MRX.

I would suggest that larger speakers do better with dynamics, a single 5 inch driver will no do the job of a pair of 12's in making you feel "there". That said unless you have room for some really big speakers, think JTR or Seaton, using higher grade smaller speakers and a good sub to me makes better sense than large fronts. That said sub placement is critical and from my recent reading and experience in my room dual subs might need to be considered to even out the LFE in a room.

Just to give a quick summary:

MRX 500 installed by dealer (including doing ARC); 7.1 system. Linn Helix FR and FL; Paradigm CC290; Paradigm Titan surrounds and Paradigm ADP 190 for rears and Paradigm UltraCube 10 for the sub. I upgraded from 5.1 with a Rotel 1056 to this system.

To be honest I do not feel a radical improvement has taken place. In music the soundstage is bigger, but I can not pinpoint instruments like many are saying. (I use Anthem logic music mode)

In movies I do not feel immersed in the movie and certainly do not have the 3D effect some are talking about.

I tried listening with ARC on and then off and could notice no real difference.

As my dealer installed and I am not technical, I do apologise if I am wasting your time as I can not post pre and post ARC graphs etc and do not always understand a lot of what is written about, but would value some thoughts from the many pros on this forum as right now I am feeling somewhat down!!

Make sure that Dolby Volume is turned off in the MRX.

For listening to stereo music, try Stereo audio mode. Not all music works well if you try to create surround sound from it as with Anthem Logic Music.

It will be worth your time to get familiar enough with ARC to view, capture, and post the charts here. I'm assuming the dealer left you with the ARC setup application installed on your Windows PC and an ARC results file from his setup. If not, then you may need to start from scratch.

There are also some basic mistakes the dealer might have made in the setup. For example, if you are having trouble localizing audio sources it is possible that he wired one or more of the speakers with mismatched polarity. This will screw up the imaging between speaker pairs. It's also possible he didn't put the speaker distances in correctly. There are lots of silly mistakes like this, and if you want to double check and eliminate them as possibilities you need to get familiar enough with the gear you bought to check these things out. None of this is particularly tough, but if it is the first time you've tried to do it yourself it can be a bit daunting.

(ETA: Obviously, the alternative is to tell the dealer you are not satisfied and get him back in to either do the job right or take the gear back. I'm presuming you are posting here because you don't want to do that, but that means you are going to have to bite the bullet and start learning about this stuff. Don't be scared off by what you don't know. Just get started asking questions.)
--Bob

Thanks so much Bob, for the feedback and encouragement.

I think my old amp has been sold and I really do like the improvement of video quality so not all is bad!!

A question on the measurements? Is that from speaker to main listening position?

Sadly he used his own laptop so I have nothing on file, but I am starting to think that I need him to relook at my LF and RF speaker placement and then re run ARC in which case I would ask his to give me the before and after graphs for me to post.

I have done a small amount of listening in basic stereo mode and will try that some more.

Once again I do appreciate your time and help

Hi,

I would recommend setting the HDMI output from the Oppo BDP-83 to Bitstream and let the Anthem do the native processing unless you want to listen to Secondary Audio from Blu-Rays. This allows you to better see the type of Audio on the MRX's display in comparison to the smaller font/display on the Oppo. There has been lots of contentious arguments about whether Bitstream is better than PCM due to problems with jitter on the PCM signal. AFAIK this has never been scientifically proven anywhere ;-)

Cheers.

Tony

I really believe this is a "bug" with either the A-D conversion or the digitizing of the inputs. All my sources are set to Dolby Volume off, but when I initially posted my results, I had asked about what to do with Dobly volume AFTER running ARC with it off. Do you turn it back on? Here's why:

I ran ARC with Dolby volume off for all sources. Then I listened and got the tinny, compressed sound that dissapointed me so much. But when I would press Dolby ON, the sound would improve. It would get louder, a little more spacious, and bass would fill in a bit. Nothing like what eventually came through on the digital inputs, but a definate change from having Dolby volume off using the analogs.

I have no idea how to match the input levels for an analog signal, so I can't tell you that is the problem. But when I switch another CD player (cheapie) in to the analog inputs, I get the same resulting poor sound. If I throw a digital cable on that 2nd unit, it becomes a beautiful thing.

My squeezebox duet causes the same degradation when switched back to the analog inputs. But in all fairness, the duet was not a stellar analog performer to begin with, and I am most familiar with how it sounds over digital anyway, so that is probably not being fair to the MRX. It does fit the pattern though. I can't comment on FM because I have only listened to that in zone 2 over mediocre in-wall speakers.

These differences on my analogs are not subtle. We are not talking some esoteric audio theory of analog Vs digital. It sounds markedly worse. Worse than itself on digital, and not even close to my closest point of reference, the Arcam it just replaced. Throw in my first use of room equalization, and you begin to understand how I may have been confused as to how it should have sounded. MY MRX (maybe not yours or all mrxs) is like a wholly different machine running digitally.

I don't know why it is, but I am really glad it is.

Hey all
Well my Ethernet problem is a software issue. I am unable to get a video out from my media section of the AVR. I spoke to an Anthem tech support person and he told me to rerun the latest media firmware update. Tried this but it is impossible because I can't see it? Am I missing something in the settings windows? The strange thing is that I could see what was on my USB stick before I ran the update when I first got the AVR?

Put the USB drive into the slot. There are two choices once the update is detected, on the left YES and on the right NO. Use the curser to select. Now, since you can't see anything you won't be able to see progress. So give it about 5 min. and then remove the drive and then turn off unit. Now turn it back on and check the MM firmware version by pressing the info button several times. If the older version is still showing press the curser button in the opposite direction at your next firmware attempt presumably this will be the YES answer. Only way I can figure without a display.
John

Hey John
Thanks! I will not be able to try this until tomorrow in the AM.

Thanks for all the responses to my question. Bob, your explanation was exactly what I was looking for. I remember the importance of matching speakers all around (primarily tweeter) and will be purchasing a 5 speaker package.

video_bit_bucket touched on a topic I have been considering. More drivers in a given speaker could provide better dynamics. I currently have Atom's for my fronts and rears with a CCxxx center channel. When considering new speakers I spent about two days looking for bookshelf MTM systems to gain an extra driver. Then I realized that all my Atoms are on stands so why not go for floor standing speakers (fronts & rears) with relatively the same footprint. I've been considering some with dual 7" drivers, a mid, and obviously a tweeter. I'd love to go for even larger multiple driver speakers as described above but my room and budget can't handle them. I have a very competent sub which will stay. For this discussion let's consider that it will cover 20hz - 80hz.

So lets say I buy some floor standing speakers with the benefit of playing down to 30-40hz versus 60-70hz on a similar MTM bookshelf. It would appear from some of the ARC discussions that the MRX may cutoff low frequencies to the mains due to the sub, thus negating the lower frequency capability of the mains.

Since floor standing speakers are typically more expensive than bookshelf, and bookshelf provides some degree of future proofing since they are easier to place, it would appear that maybe the wiser choice after all are some high quality MTM bookshelfs?

I hope to avoid any debate on the musicality of a 2.1/5.1 system versus full range speakers. I'm looking more for first hand experience with ARC and discussion in that regard.

One thing is puzzling me. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's this whole Dolby Volume thing. Why does it sound better off? If BD's are made with Dolby True HD, then doesn't turning off the DV defeat the purpose of Dolby in the first place? Maybe I'm just confused, and that certainly wouldn't be the first time.
-Peter

I use 5 speakers that are a combination of two floor standing (F12), a center channel (C12) placed on the AVR stand underneath the TV and two bookshelf/monitors (M12) on their OEM stands from Revel. The Revel Concerta line. And I can tell you that the performance of these with the Anthem MRX 500 is outstanding. If you plan on using All Channel Stereo than you might want to look at 5 floor standing loudspeakers but for really good home theatre performance it is not necessary. Paradigm Studio 20s, PSB Imagine Bs etc. all are excellent bookshelf/monitors.

What is really important though is to get a good center channel speaker that has a dedicated midrange ideally located with the tweeter on top. See this excerpt from Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction: Loudspeakers and Rooms on pages 399-401 (Figure 18.18 in particular) on why this is so important especially when factoring in ARC measurements for multiple positions.

Hope this helps. Cheers.

Tony

I tried to use ARC for the first time on an MRX-700 and ran into an issue. I tried both v3.0 and v3.01 with the same results (firmware is 50.02 and my laptop runs Windows 7 32-bit).

Everything seems to work fine until the process attempts to take the first measurement at position 1 - each time I receive the message "Error measurement was not able to acquire a proper response (code 0x03)". The microphone is approximately 10 feet from the front left speaker. If I move the microphone about 2 feet from the speaker - it will move to the next speaker, but will eventually fail before it finishes all 5 main speakers. On one occasion with the microphone right in front of the front left, it did read all 5, then failed on the sub (which probably could have been corrected if I increased the sub's volume control). That seemed odd as it was about 10 feet from the surrounds at that time. However, I tried at least 4-5 other locations and it always failed on one of the main 5 and it never gets past the first speaker from my main listening position.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I was really hoping to finish my setup this weekend.

Thanks

Hi,

what happens when you run Quick Measure? Does that work correct?

Cheers.

Tony

Dolby volume is unrelated to the Dolby sound programs such as Dolby True HD. It is supposed to even out the sound variations in sources.

Dobly Volume is a scheme to reduce the annoying volume level swings that are common when watching TV and changing channels or, most egregiously, when a commercial comes on and blasts you out of your seat. It can also be useful when watching late at night or other times when you don't want to disturb others with big explosions, but still want to hear the movie dialog. It does this, in part, by compressing the dynamic range--low volume is boosted, high volume is cut. It employs some techniques to avoid distorting the sound too much, but by definition it is changing the sound output, so many people like to leave it off at all times. See the Dolby site for more info.

Thanks! Gee do I feel stoopid. After reading the explanations, it all makes sense. It seems more often than not when we get all these supposed ugrades/enhancements to sound it's disapointing. Just give me the pure sound any day.
-Peter

Make sure all speaker levels are set to 0 and the sub volume level set to 12 o'clock.
John

I didn't try Quick Measure. I'll try it later.

My dealer offered to let me borrow his mic kit to determine if the mic is the issue. He thought it might be the Keyspan adapter that I am using, however, I upgraded the firmware using the Keyspan adapter and my PC appears to be communicating properly with the MRX700 as it turns the receiver on/off, etc. during the process. For reference, I am using the following Keyspan driver version 3.7.0.5 dated 5/13/10.

Thanks

How critical are the mic placements for ARC? I know they recommend a semi-circle type of pattern, but this pattern doesn't work well in my small room. Has anyone had success with a two row type of pattern? I took my fourth and fifth measurements from ~2ft in front of the first three. My charts do look good, but I'm a constant tweaker. And, I'm always looking for ways to achieve that last ounce of performance. Thoughts?