Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 401

Generally speaking, it is not possible to use an alternative measurement system to measure your room and produce a frequency response that matches the calculated response in ARC. Bear in mind that the response shown in ARC is an average/mix of the 5 mic position measurements, whereas a response from something like REW represents a measurement from a single mic location.

That being said, I was able to discern a notable difference in the measured response with ARC on vs off. In Movie mode, with all speakers crossed over to my sub at 60Hz, I was pretty happy with the ARC on result.

In Music mode, with my Front speakers running full range and no sub, I was a bit disappointed with the resulting bass response with ARC on. ARC did a good job on correcting the room mode issues, but I felt that the bass level was unnecessarily attenuated, which surprised me since this wasn't the case when the sub was involved. As a result, I've added +4 to the Bass setting for the one input that uses Music mode and 2.0 source.

I'll post some graphs from REW, but I need to redo some measurements first.

Dan

Finally got to run ARC on my MRX300 driving GoldenEar Triton 2s for L/R and a GoldenEar center channel (no surrounds yet). The Tritons have built in powered subwoofers. For some reason the MRX does not output the LFE channel in the main speaker output when set to subwoofer=no, which means I need to run an LFE cable into the Tritons for movie listening and ignore it for music. My right speaker is right next to a corner, while the left is next to an open hallway. Both are about 24" from the back wall, toed in to the listener position. I made 2'x4' acoustic panels, 5 of which go on the wall behind the speakers and 2 to the side of the Right speaker (the one in the corner). I ran ARC in three configurations: no panels, 5 panels (i.e. 3 in the back wall), and the full 7 panels. I am posting all of ARC's measurements. I'd appreciate your comments/analysis. Let me know if you'd like to see a picture of the setup with the speakers, TV and panels, in case it helps understand the setup. I uploaded the 7 Panel , 30 cutoff setup to the MRX. ARC set the calibration of the subwoofer level in the Movie setup in the MRX to -6dB.

ARC No Panels -
Movie Setup:
ARC No Panels Movie.png 68k .png file

Music Setup - 60 cutoff:
ARC No Panels Music 60.png 40k .png file

Music Setup - 30 cutoff:
ARC No Panels Music 30.png 40k .png file

Targets:
ARC No Panels Targets.png 68k .png file
Edited by esautomatix - 8/26/12 at 3:39pm

Part 2 of post 12003.

ARC 5 Panels -
Movie Setup:
ARC 5 Panels Movie.png 69k .png file

Music Setup - 60 cutoff:
ARC 5 Panels Music 60.png 40k .png file

Music Setup - 30 cutoff:
ARC 5 Panels Music 30.png 41k .png file

Targets:
ARC 5Panels Targets.png 66k .png file

Part 3 of post 12003.


ARC 7 Panels -
Movie Setup:
ARC 7 Panels Movie.png 69k .png file

Music Setup - 60 cutoff:
ARC 7 Panels Music 60.png 40k .png file

Music Setup - 30 cutoff:
ARC 7 Panels Music 30.png 40k .png file

Targets:
ARC 7 Panels Targets.png 67k .png file

Please note that in all these ARC set the Movie speaker to configuration for the main L/R speakers to Small 60, which is not the way GoldenEar recommends. Thus I changed the L/R main speakers to Large, Subwoofer=yes in the Movie configuration. The Music configuration also has them as Large, but with subwoofer-no.

If you set your speakers to Large, the subwoofer will not get used. Leave your speakers set to small 60. Unless you don't want the sub, in which case set them to large and set the cut off as low as is reasonable for your speakers.
Edited by Tigger! - 8/26/12 at 4:11pm

I'm confused...

You state that when you tell the MRX it has no sub, it does not output an LFE track. This is correct. What were you expecting? The LFE output is your sub. If you say you don't have a sub, the MRX will throw away the LFE.

I'm also concerned about how you have your fronts configured. Are they set to receive bass from the main channel input? Or from an LFE input? Or both. What are all the inputs and filters on your front main speakers, can you provide a high res picture for us and description of how they are currently set?

Do you have an actual sub or are you using the LFE input on your main front speakers as your sub?

Your center does not go below 120Hz. If I'm reading your graphs correctly, the LFE input on your front mains has a crossover/ low pass filter at 80Hz. This is leaving a hole in your centers sound stage from 80 to 120Hz.

We need to better understand your setup so we can help

As for the accoustic paneling, it is hard to see that it is having a big impact from the averaged graphs you posted. You would be better off posting graphs using Quick Measure, where the result is not averaged with multiple mic measurments. That having been said, what frequency ranges were the traps meant to target? I see some changes in the 3k-10k region and around 100-200Hz range. What were the ranges and expectations the manufacturer specified fro your traps?
Edited by Tigger! - 8/27/12 at 8:07am

It seems that the Tritons need to be setup differently from other speakers as they have built in subwoofers and they work best when fed directly into their main input. However, because of the way the MRX handles the LFE part of multichannel audio it's necessary to feed an LFE cable to the Tritons. See what Sandy Gross from GoldenEar had to say:

So, what I'm doing is always using the built-in subwoofers but when listening to stereo I have the MRX as sub=no so I get the full spectrum into the main speaker connector, but when listening to multichannel movie soundtracks (when I have an LFE channel that the MRX is not outputting in the main output) I set the Movie mode to sub=on and then of course I get the LFE in its dedicated cable. Makes sense?

Again, this is because GoldenEar recommends running the Tritons as Large, irrespective of whether we feed an LFE channel into them or not. And of course this would be unnecessary if the MRX was redirecting the LFE into the main speakers. Unfortunately it's not.

I set the Music mode to no sub, and the Movie mode to sub. Thus when listening to stereo the MRX is outputting full spectrum via the main speaker line, and when listening to multichannel (when there is an LFE) the MRX is outputting that channel in the LFE channel. Again, the expectation is that if I set the MRX to sub=no then the LFE information would go out in the main line, but in fact that is not what's happening thus making it necessary to connect an LFE cable too. The question is whether I should set the Tritons to Large plus sub=on as recommended by GoldenEar, or to Small 60 (or some other number) plus sub=on as recommended by the MRX.

My center is not full spectrum, so the way GoldenEar recommends using them is by setting them to Small and crossing them over at 120. Then the subwoofers in the Tritons take over the low frequencies. Shouldn't the midrange in the Tritons handle the frequencies between 80 and 120hz, while their subwoofers handle everything below 60hz?

I made these panels myself using Roxul 80 2" mineral wool. I don't know exactly the range of frequencies they absorb, but they are there mainly to prevent reflections from behind and the sides of the speakers (particularly the corner behind Main Right). You are right that the differences don't seem to be as dramatic as I thought they would be, but the sound is tighter. Before the panels some frequencies seemed to "move" in the staging, clearly being reinforced or not by the room.

Thank you for your help!
Edited by esautomatix - 8/26/12 at 6:10pm

I'm not sure what the point is to send LFE to the mains since 99% of speakers can't handle it and in fact many speakers have trouble with bass.
John

Because the GoldenEar Triton 2 have built-in powered subwoofers, John.

The LFE Track is not considered essential, many Receivers will throw it away (as I understand it) if you do not have sub, this is not unique to the MRX's. (You did not answer my question on if you have an actual sub out side of your mains, but I take it you do not). Note: Anthems signature line does send the LFE to the front mains, the MRX's I believe do not. (Sorry, I think I was missleading on the LFE in my last post, I've updated it... was typing to quickly!)

I would personally set the your Music Profile as: Front L/R Full Range with a cutoff of 30, Center (as recommended by ARC, currently 120 Hz... see comment in the next quoted section) and Sub On. With your Mains set to full range, nothing from a 2.0 signal that is set to Stereo will be crossed to the sub (Large/Full Range speakers do not get crossed to the sub, regardless of your cutoff). This should however alow you to play multi channel music and have your center cross over to the sub, if you should choose to do so.

For your Movie Profile,:I would set your Fronts to be "Small" (Not Full Range) with a cut off of 60 as suggested by ARC. Center, as ARC set it (again see next quoted section). Sub On. This will take some of the load off of the MRX's internal amps as they only have to handle material above 60Hz and allow the powered subs to take care of the lower frequency grunt work with the larger amps in your speakers (I'm assuming they are larger).

I find most people listen to Movies at a much louder volum than Music, so off loading some of the heavy lifting for movie watching makes more sense than for music. Also this will allow fro the LFE track and the Crossed over bass material to be better integrated together. A few Notes... Make sure you have a "Y" cable off of your LFE output on the MRX so you are feeding both of your Front speakers. You also want to make sure the distance you set for your sub to your listening postition and your Fronts to your listening position are all the same distance. If your Front Left is a different distance than your Front Right... I would set them all to be the same as your Front Left and try to arrange your speakers and or listening position to be an equal distance as best as you can.

I'm still confused as to what options we have on the back of your speakers...

Main Speakers, can we control the Low Pass filter on the Sub/LFE input? Currently it looks to be 80Hz, which is not ideal. We would like it to be at least 120Hz or higher.

Center, can we control the high pass filter? It looks to be 120Hz. It would be ideal to simply disable it altogether ifpossible and let the MRX handle this. If we can not disable it, can we set it as low as possible, 60Hz or lower.
Edited by Tigger! - 8/27/12 at 3:31pm

Not true at all. Nearly all receivers redirect the LFE channel to other speakers set to large when the Subwoofer output is set to OFF/None. I never heard of any unit that does not redirect the LFE channel per the DD and DTS specifications.

The LFE is dropped in most DVD players when you use DD material downmixed to the DVD player's analog 2 channel outputs.

I've been down this road with my Triton 2's. My eventual solution is to set Movie with separate feed into the LFE input of the Speakers (sub-yes). Music is set at full range 30 hz no sub. I know of nobody that has gotten below 120hz on the SS50C center speaker. Sandy is a firm believer in *phantom center* and anything lower than 120 should be routed to the mains. (I offered to pay for a horizontal Triton 3 to use as a center speaker:-)

I'll bet money that you need to turn your Triton *Sub's* volume down, especially the one in the corner. Your setup is very much like mine. My speaker in the corner is turned all the way down and my levels still come up at -5. What are your levels?

That's the 1% I mentioned. So why would receivers consider this important? That was my point, not that you wouldn't benefit.
John

+1, let's see your levels!

Hydrotex, very interesting. Once you better corrected the levels for the subs in the Triton's, were you able to get the sub to extend higher than 80Hz?

The 80Hz limit appears to be imposed on the LFE inputs of the speakers themselves... this makes very little sense if GoldenEar is expecting the center to get redirected to the LFE output for under 120Hz to their fronts. They are leaving a gap between where their powered sub picks up and the center drops off. Why would they do this? Surely they don't expect the Receiverd to direct 120Hz+ to the center, than 80-120Hz to the front mains and 80Hz- to the sub?

Hi

I cannot decide which Anthem to get 300/500/700

I currently have a 7.1 setup.

My speakers are M&K S150/SS150, CS35 and a 350THX Sub.

My room is 15 feet by 12 feet.

I was leaning towards the 300 and maybe getting a power amp at a later date but having looked at my av rack there is not enough room for a power amp without replacing the rack which is handmade and a lot of hassle!

So my question is would the 300 on its own be enough to drive my speakers or should i be thinking about the 500 or 700.

I am without amp at the moment having just sold my onkyo 5007 so looking to buy in the next couple of days.

Thanks

I tried an MRX300 in a room the same sort of size and it went loud enough, though it went wrong and had to go back. Then I got a good deal on the MRX500 which does the job very well, goes louder than I can put up with and sounds pretty relaxed at those volumes. I have a stereo amp I could use to take some load off it but don't think I need it.

My speakers are XTZ99.26 Mk II which are not much above 4 ohms and 88dB efficiency.

Can you get a home demo to check for yourself?

I have revised my language to be less dramatic. However a quick google search and the first couple of articles I found all discussed how many receivers do not fully implement DD and other standards specifically by the book and in fact the first article specifically called out not sending the LFE to front Large speakers.

That having been said, it would seem like this is something that the MRX's should handle and I'm surprised that they don't. Perhaps a firmware update down the road will address this if enough people send in a request (though I must say the number of people this impacts is probably pretty low). If almost all of the other receivers on the market have begun implementing this I'm sure Anthem will have their eye on it as well.

Any constructive suggestions you might be able to add to help esautomatix out? You seem to have a lot of Speaker experience. Perhaps you have thoughts on how best to integrate his GoldenEar's with the resources available through the MRX?

My room is 13 x 11 x 9, with B&W Matrix 80x speakers in a 5.1 setup with an SVS cylinder sub. I personally opted for the MRX300 because I already have a streaming audio solution (Logitech Squeezeboxes) and I do not listen to Internet Radio. As such, for me, the choice of 300 vs 500 vs 700 strictly came down to the amplifier power output differences. I reasoned that if I did find the 60W of the MRX300 insufficient, I would rather invest the $500 or $1000 differential into a dedicated multichannel external amp.

Since putting the MRX300 into my system, I've yet to find myself ever wanting of more output oomph, so it remains to be seen if I'll ever add an external amp or not. My MRX300 has been in daily operation now for almost 6 months and I've yet to run into any of the problems, glitches or lockups being experienced by others.

Regards,

Dan

Thank you for your answer, Tigger. Let me answer your questions:

- I do not have a sub other than the two built-in in the main speakers (they have 1200W amplifiers, BTW).
- In terms of what's on the back of the speakers, the main speakers have a level control for the sub. No low pass filter control. Center, no control at all. Any filtering should be handled by the receiver.
- Yes, I have a Y splitter sending LFE cables to the mains from the single LFE output in the receiver.
- All distances are set as you recommended

This makes sense, yet GoldenEar is recommending to set them as Large, sub=yes. I wonder why...

The way I understand it is the GoldenEars are expecting anything below 120Hz in the Center channel to be redirected to the mains, where presumably the speakers would take care of distributing the right frequencies to the appropriate drivers. So, yes, I believe your last statement is representative of what's happening (or should be happening).

Thanks!
Edited by esautomatix - 8/27/12 at 6:39pm

Interestingly enough, before I ran ARC I made sure all my levels were correct, including the subs. I measured the main speakers at 75dB and individually adjusted each of the two subs to 71dB. I had to reduce the volume of the right sub (the one in the corner) all the way down. When both were connected they measured at around 75dB. Then I ran ARC and it gave me an error when measuring position 4 (slightly to the front and left of the main couch, farthest from the lowered sub) as it found the difference in level between the various positions to be greater than 10dB. So I aborted the measurement and raised the level of the right sub to be equal to the left, re-ran ARC and it liked that better and adjusted the curves as posted in the graphs above.

After running ARC all my levels were 0dB except for the subs that were set to -6dB.

Because the GoldenEar Triton 2 have built-in powered subwoofers, John.

Sure, I understand your point, but I still don't understand why the receiver should decide arbitrarily the speaker cannot handle the bass. It seems to me much more logical to pipe the LFE information into the main speaker line when the mains are set to Large, no sub and let the speaker's crossovers get rid of anything they cannot handle. Otherwise the output of the receiver is anemic unless you run an LFE cable.

I have to admit I never have either. Seems like a pretty essential piece of bass management. I guess I am out as a future MRX owner, as I will not have a chance to add a sub for a while. Glad I read this before I pulled the trigger.

Interesting, I think what they are expecting is not likely to be happening. crossing part of the centers low mid to the fronts and the low low to the sub is not going to happen. And the MRX is going to attempt to direct everything the center has below 120 to the sub (LFE) which currently appears to only be only able to support up to 80Hz.

Hey all

I just was searching through this rather large thread to find an answer to my current problem. I have been running my MRX 500 in 5.0 for about 6 months now and tonight I hooked up a sub. (Rythmik F15HP) I get a hum from the outlet, (I will deal with that later) but I can't get signal from the MRX. I have the cable stuck in the "sub" out that is 4 in on the back left of the AVR, and I have the other end of the cable to LFE in on the Rythmik. The green light goes on for both Auto and On, but all I can hear is the hum. I have never had a sub before, and I have likely made some very obvious mistake. Could someone take a crack at helping me?

Thanks a bunch.


Jono2channel

Why would the MRX do that? Why wouldn't it send the 80hz-120hz material to the mains? Maybe this point explains their suggestion to configure the mains as Large with sub=on?

Have you told the MRX you have a sub? Have you re-run ARC to include a sub?

To make things easier, I've included my charts and targets. My right front speaker is in a corner. my left has a open space to the left. My component cabinet is also located between the speakers. I've pulled the main speakers out about as far as i can (~12"?). As you can tell, I've got some nasty stuff going on. My right speaker (built in sub) is turned all the way down. I'm running 10 gauge wire to all speakers except the surrounds (Monitor Audio brand is different) which are built in to the ceiling and I'm not sure of the gauge that the AV installer used there. Levels: LF-3, C-3, RF-3, SR+3, SL+3, Mov Sub-5. arc1.JPG 421k .JPG file arc2.JPG 211k .JPG file targets_arc.JPG 70k .JPG file music_arc1.JPG 418k .JPG file music_arc2.JPG 211k .JPG file

I personally do not have the room for a second amp so the Anthem would have to power my system on its own.

The MK S150 are 4 ohms and quite demanding speakers and my setup is 7.1 so not sure if the 300 would have enough power to drive them but then the 700 is not that much more powerful!

Any MK owners using the Anthem MRX ?

Isn't there any way you can get a demo at home? That would be the best test.

As I mentioned earlier my speakers are only 88dB which if the stats quoted are to be believed are 3dB less sensitive than the M&Ks 91dB and that makes a very big difference in the amount of power needed to drive them - i.e. you should need less watts than me. As for the four ohms (which mine nearly are) then that will draw more watts from the amp. My 500 doesn't get too hot when driven loud.

The 500 and 700 have bigger transformers and larger capicitors.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-300-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures