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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 444

post #13291 of 16450
This thread is all over the place. I wish there were separate ones just for the ARC tests and another for reviews/ technical.
post #13292 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Hi Bittermidget and welcome!

I'm very surprised that you feel the treble has become super bright? Your speakers start rolling off around 5k and ARC does not correct above 5k, so there should be NO change in your high end treble experience where we normally expect things to be "bright". ARC did do a little filling on your surrounds and rear speakers between 2k-5k, are all your speakers sounding bright or just the surrounds and rears?

As for the mid sounding a little flatter, ARC did reduce a bit of a mountain you had between around 400-800 Hz on almost all of your speakers. This shouldn't have been to dramatic, but might be noticeable. Taming the mid section while not doing anything to the treble may also explain why the treble feels a little brighter (as relative to the mid it is now a more, even though the treble didn't change, the mid did).

I would highly recommend you not set the treble down -2 and simply listen to your system for a solid week, exactly as ARC has set it. I think you are perhaps accustomed to a less than ideal previous eq and your brain will quickly re-adjust and be much happier with the new sound once you give things a little time for your brain to catch-up with your ears biggrin.gif

In fact, I'm going to guess that in a weeks time, you won't think things are bright, but rather cymbals and other high frequency sounds will sound like they have better clarity and punctuation than they used to.

As for recommendations (besides giving things a SOLID week of listening where ARC set them by default)... the main thing I would focus on is your sub. Your sub looks to be very strong, which is awesome. I see that you set it to flat and that looks like it will work well with your sub, so good work on that one. However, I see an issue on the higher side. It appears ARC picked a cutoff of 80 for your sub. Yet your sub clearly is happy to go much higher and we would like ARC to naturally set it at 120.

My suspicion is that the rapid roll off from 50 to 90Hz is fooling ARC in to thinking that you have a low pass filter set somewhere around 60 to 80 and ARC has picked a cut off of 80 to match the low pass filter it thinks is there. Obviously given how your sub rebounds around 100Hz, there is not filter there... ARC has just been fooled! It happens (though not to often).

Two things you can do... the first is the preferred method and worth playing a little to see if you can make it happen. The second is only a last resort and not something we normally would recommend.

1) Move your sub (probably only slightly, possibly just a few inches) and see if you can get rid of the hole at 90Hz. If you can re position your sub slightly and get that hole to come up even a few db's I think ARC will be happy and set your cutoff to 120Hz for you. To help you with repositioning the sub, you can use Quick Measure with your sub and watch what ARC is hearing as you move your sub. Once you find a better spot with Quick Measure, re-run ARC and let's see if it picks 120Hz naturally!

2) If all else false and since we can clearly see your sub is happy well up to 200Hz, you could force ARC to use 120 in your targets window. To do this, change the subs cutoff to 120, re-calculate and see what happens. I'm not sure ARC has enough resources to actually completely fill the hole at 90Hz... but we can see if it can get really close. Again, option 1 is a far better option and even if option 1 doesn't get you to 120, if you can reduce the dip at 90 some, it will help if you have to resort to option 2 wink.gif

Again, and you will read it all through this thread, before you start tweaking your bass and treble settings... please listen to the MRX for a solid 1-2 weeks where ARC set it and make sure you give yourself a little time to get used to the corrected sound. I think you will find you love it!

Tigger - thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed opinion. I appreciate that. I will certainly leave the ARC settings and treble adjustments as-is for a while and listen to more music before final judgement.

I'm building 2 additional identical subs to be placed strategically in the room to help smooth out the bass response and pressurize the large room. I will try the quick measure when placing them to see if I can lessen/eliminate the 50-90 Hz null. I am basically stuck with the position of the existing sub since it doubles as my center channel stand below my projector screen.

I also suspected that the impression of excess treble may be due to a reduction in the midrange node that I had become used to, or that the MRX is just revealing more than the Pioneer. Because opinions of ARCs results seem to be mostly positive, I'll continue to listen. My issues with bright treble is with the mains, not necessarily the surrounds.

I apologize if this has been covered in detail (I've read "only" about 50 pages of this topic), but I'm still a bit confused with the exact sub crossover point ARC is choosing. The mains and center are set to crossover to the sub at 60 Hz and the surrounds at 80 Hz. So I suspect the sub crossover to be somewhere in the 80 Hz range, but the goal is to have ARC set the cutoff at 120 Hz? As I attempt to match phase of 3 subs with my mains, it would be helpful to know what the real crossover point is from sub to mains (60 Hz in this case?) If subs are added and ARC then sets the cutoff point to 120 Hz, what is the true crossover frequency to use for phase matching? Perhaps crossover points and cutoff points displayed by ARC are not even related when discussing ARC? I think I'm struggling with ARC terminology here since it's very different than what I'm used to using for room correction. I should probably dedicate a few extra hours scouring the forums for ARC useage.

Thanks again.
post #13293 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post

I've read "only" about 50 pages of this topic.

I hope you started at PAGE #1 of two different threads - shown BELOW.

Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700

and

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1

BOTH Page #1's are filled with Advice and Links.
post #13294 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post

So I suspect the sub crossover to be somewhere in the 80 Hz range, but the goal is to have ARC set the cutoff at 120 Hz?
I been reading this in the thread for a while and have wondered the same thing. Now I know there is LFE up to 120Hz and that 80Hz has been the standards from THX for a loooong time. Why are we shooting for 120Hz if the standard has been 80Hz, and is there some ARC document somewhere that says with ARC we should shoot for 120Hz instead of 80Hz, because I'd like to read up on ARC as much as possible. How did you guys hear the 120Hz was what ARC is trying to achieve with the sub?

BTW could the 120Hz sub crossover with ARC be because ARC uses a separate crossover for the sub channel (and separate crossovers for the speakers) where other systems use a global crossover for the speakers and sub so while the speakers are set to small and crossed at 80Hz the sub has to be crossed at 80Hz as well? Is the 120Hz because ARC has the flexibility to cross the sub separately from the other speakers and use all the LFE up to 120Hz without effecting the other speakers?

Thanks
Legairre
Edited by Legairre - 1/14/13 at 10:38am
post #13295 of 16450
Thanks. I just started at Pg.1 of MRX and didn't branch off to links yet. I will go back and study before asking more questions.
post #13296 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gandy View Post

1) Fresh format with NTFS, placed a freshly ripped WAV file on both the root and in a directory two folders deep. All the WAV files played correctly on the Passport Drive.
2) Added 5 directorys and a total of 50 files. Anthem stopped playing the files that were saved in the previous step and plays nothing now. Files/songs show up in the Anthem, but when selected it says "Nothing to play".
3) Fresh format with NTFS, repeated the exact same procedure used in step 1, now the Anthem will not play the same files, and gives the error from Step 2.
4) Fresh format with NTFS, added two MP3s at the root. Songs show up in menu, when selected it says "Nothing to play".
5) 1 gig memory stick with two WAV files (same as step 1) and the will play fine.
6) Same memory stick, added two more folders and sub directories, and 4 more WAV files. Now nothing will play.
7) Erased everything and added 2 MP3 files at the root. Same error, "Nothing to play".

This is very disappointing. I had a choice between this and another receiver and would have went a different route had I known this would be a problem. I need to be able to play the CD archive from WAV or other lossless format, as well as my HDTracks files.

Hi Jeff Gandy,

Two more ideas...

1) You should report this to Anthem and check with them... again I would like to know if you have the same issues with MP3's. I know you are interested in lossless, but most people doing lossless or higher res files do them through a separate device. The USB port is typically used more for simple MP3's, so it would be good to know if that is working for you.

2) Are you running the latest MM firmware. Keep in mind that updating the main firmware does not update the Multimedia firmware. This is done with a separate download on a USB stick.

The current version of the MM firmware is v1.1.0.
post #13297 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gandy View Post

The Passport does not have external power, just USB.
I think the problem is the Passport is too big a HD, without a power source. I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere in the manual. This is why a stick works ok. Myself, I have a 2TB drive, but it's powered. It works just fine with wav.
Hope this helps.
post #13298 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post

...
I apologize if this has been covered in detail (I've read "only" about 50 pages of this topic), but I'm still a bit confused with the exact sub crossover point ARC is choosing. The mains and center are set to crossover to the sub at 60 Hz and the surrounds at 80 Hz. So I suspect the sub crossover to be somewhere in the 80 Hz range, but the goal is to have ARC set the cutoff at 120 Hz? As I attempt to match phase of 3 subs with my mains, it would be helpful to know what the real crossover point is from sub to mains (60 Hz in this case?) If subs are added and ARC then sets the cutoff point to 120 Hz, what is the true crossover frequency to use for phase matching? Perhaps crossover points and cutoff points displayed by ARC are not even related when discussing ARC? I think I'm struggling with ARC terminology here since it's very different than what I'm used to using for room correction. I should probably dedicate a few extra hours scouring the forums for ARC useage.

Thanks again.

Hi Bittermidget,

Sounds like you are coming to some of the same conclusions I highlighted, so that is great.

With your sub, if you could even move it forward or backward a few inches, that may make a huge difference. Not sure if that is possible given your configuration.

As for more info, check out the first two posts of this thread and follow the links (at least 2 levels deep). No need to read the whole forum, just about everything you need will be highlighted in those links and the underlying links.

As for the sub, the LFE track for a movie can go as high as 120Hz. As the LFE track is only sent to the sub, we aim to make sure the sub goes up to 120Hz (Also a number of centers, particularly the GoldenEar's seem to not perform below 100Hz! so it is important that those subs be able to cross to the sub as well without a hole opening up, not the case for your center... but another reason in addition to the LFE track for targeting 120Hz). As for the crossover and cutoffs, they are different and there is some help on the matter you will see in the links and notes on the first page. The confusion comes in the fact that they both feel like they are the same thing, even though they are not... and in fact that in a lot of case they often end up being set the same, which only adds to the confusion.

In all likely hood, the MRX is actually crossing your Mains at 60 and your surrounds at 80. For the purposes of phase matching, I would probably target the higher of the two 80. However, until you add your other subs, I would think phase should not be to complicated as your fronts and sub sound like they are in the same plane at the front of the room.

I trust you setup the correct distances on the MRX for each speaker to your main listening area? You can do this before or after running ARC, it doesn't matter... but you should do it before you begin playing with phase. wink.gif
post #13299 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanknuck View Post

I think the problem is the Passport is too big a HD, without a power source. I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere in the manual. This is why a stick works ok. Myself, I have a 2TB drive, but it's powered. It works just fine with wav.
Hope this helps.

Manual does list that the USB is only good for 0.5A, which was why I earlier suggested a memory stick... but I believe in his last post he repeated his experiment with a 1GB memory stick and had the same problem.

Assuming he is not using any of NTFS's encryption on the files, NTFS should work fine as should FAT16 and FAT32. The MRX is capable of playing WAV files, so again, that should not be an issue. Though as most people probably play such media through other sources and only use the USB port for MP3 music on a memory stick most of the time, I would like to know if the MP3's are working so we know if this is perhaps a larger issue specific to just his unit. biggrin.gif

One other thing... the MRX does create an index of your music on the drive, so make sure the drive is not locked (read only)!
post #13300 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Hi Bittermidget,

Sounds like you are coming to some of the same conclusions I highlighted, so that is great.

With your sub, if you could even move it forward or backward a few inches, that may make a huge difference. Not sure if that is possible given your configuration.

As for more info, check out the first two posts of this thread and follow the links (at least 2 levels deep). No need to read the whole forum, just about everything you need will be highlighted in those links and the underlying links.

As for the sub, the LFE track for a movie can go as high as 120Hz. As the LFE track is only sent to the sub, we aim to make sure the sub goes up to 120Hz (Also a number of centers, particularly the GoldenEar's seem to not perform below 100Hz! so it is important that those subs be able to cross to the sub as well without a hole opening up, not the case for your center... but another reason in addition to the LFE track for targeting 120Hz). As for the crossover and cutoffs, they are different and there is some help on the matter you will see in the links and notes on the first page. The confusion comes in the fact that they both feel like they are the same thing, even though they are not... and in fact that in a lot of case they often end up being set the same, which only adds to the confusion.

In all likely hood, the MRX is actually crossing your Mains at 60 and your surrounds at 80. For the purposes of phase matching, I would probably target the higher of the two 80. However, until you add your other subs, I would think phase should not be to complicated as your fronts and sub sound like they are in the same plane at the front of the room.

I trust you setup the correct distances on the MRX for each speaker to your main listening area? You can do this before or after running ARC, it doesn't matter... but you should do it before you begin playing with phase. wink.gif

Tigger - your explanation clears up many questions I had regarding crossovers and cutoffs. I'll spend some time over the next week or two sifting through ARC posts you and drhankz recommended. Thanks for taking the time!
post #13301 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post

Tigger - your explanation clears up many questions I had regarding crossovers and cutoffs. I'll spend some time over the next week or two sifting through ARC posts you and drhankz recommended. Thanks for taking the time!

For the sub only crossover is not cutoff. The crossover will likely be set the same as your mains or in that range. The cutoff for a sub is like the MaxEQ range. This is the limit that ARC stops applying it's correction resources. In ARC target windows only cutoffs are shown. For all speakers except the sub this is the same as the crossover.
post #13302 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittermidget View Post

Tigger - your explanation clears up many questions I had regarding crossovers and cutoffs. I'll spend some time over the next week or two sifting through ARC posts you and drhankz recommended. Thanks for taking the time!

Thanks!

You will find better explanations in the definitions and links up front. This thread is a monster! but Jayray has done an amazing job of condensing all the important stuff into that second post. Now if I can just find a way to direct people there more easily! I feel like I need to make my signature flash or something... but that would be so obnoxious I would probably kill myself biggrin.gif

Happy reading, I know you are going to enjoy it. And if you still have any questions... shoot them our way!
post #13303 of 16450
Hey guys quick question. My sub's cutoff from ARC is 80Hz, more than likely due to a pre-ARC dip from 60-100. The sub is a Hsu 15H which easily plays down to 15Hz. so I have plenty of extension. I can't move the sub to fix the pre-ARC dip but ARC has corrected the dip. What would you guys recommend? leave the cutoff at 80Hz or change it to 120Hz since ARC thinks there's some kind of filter applied between 60-100Hz due to the pre-ARC dip and is probably confused or tricked by the dip.
post #13304 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Hey guys quick question. My sub's cutoff from ARC is 80Hz, more than likely due to a pre-ARC dip from 60-100. The sub is a Hsu 15H which easily plays down to 15Hz. so I have plenty of extension. I can't move the sub to fix the pre-ARC dip but ARC has corrected the dip. What would you guys recommend? leave the cutoff at 80Hz or change it to 120Hz since ARC thinks there's some kind of filter applied between 60-100Hz due to the pre-ARC dip and is probably confused or tricked by the dip.

Can you move the sub to get ARC to set the cutoff to 120 naturally?

Can you post your charts? I looked back a few pages and didn't see any.
post #13305 of 16450
Here you go, as you can see there is a pre-ARC dip in the sub frequency that is probably making ARC think I have a filter between say and 50-130Hz which is probably why the sub is being set to 80Hz. Also there is a lot of room gain as the sub goes down to 20Hz and below, but I can tame that with my SMS-1 at the 20 or so Hz frequency and then run ARC again after letting the SMS-1 pull down that peek.



post #13306 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Here you go, as you can see there is a pre-ARC dip in the sub frequency that is probably making ARC think I have a filter between say and 50-130Hz which is probably why the sub is being set to 80Hz. Also there is a lot of room gain as the sub goes down to 20Hz and below, but I can tame that with my SMS-1 at the 20 or so Hz frequency and then run ARC again after letting the SMS-1 pull down that peek.




I agree that that dip is probably causing ARC to be fooled and setting the cutoff at 80. The peak you have at 150 seems to be in all your speakers and probably is a result of the room. Can the sub be moved to fix that 150Hz peak and get ARC to set the sub to 120 naturally? That's the preferred option but you could always change the cutoff to 120 recalculate and upload to try it.
post #13307 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gandy View Post

7) Erased everything and added 2 MP3 files at the root. Same error, "Nothing to play".
.

It was happening with MP3s as well. I just figured out I can run Plex on the Roku and pull them in that way. I just wonder if it passes everything through. The MRX 500 is playing the flac 96/24s from HDTracks ok. It sounds crazy good, but what do I know.......
post #13308 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike645 View Post

I agree that that dip is probably causing ARC to be fooled and setting the cutoff at 80. The peak you have at 150 seems to be in all your speakers and probably is a result of the room. Can the sub be moved to fix that 150Hz peak and get ARC to set the sub to 120 naturally? That's the preferred option but you could always change the cutoff to 120 recalculate and upload to try it.
Thanks for the help. Yeah looks like the room has a peek at 150Hz.. I'll try and see if I can move the sub a bit and see if that helps. I'll also try changing the sub to 120Hz just to see how it sounds in it's current location too. Thanks
post #13309 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Thanks for the help. Yeah looks like the room has a peek at 150Hz.. I'll try and see if I can move the sub a bit and see if that helps. I'll also try changing the sub to 120Hz just to see how it sounds in it's current location too. Thanks

Getting there naturally by slightly moving the sub is really the best way to go. If you do force it to 120, post your 120 calculations so we can take a look.
post #13310 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gandy View Post

It was happening with MP3s as well. I just figured out I can run Plex on the Roku and pull them in that way. I just wonder if it passes everything through. The MRX 500 is playing the flac 96/24s from HDTracks ok. It sounds crazy good, but what do I know.......

If you are having issues with MP3's as well, than something is wrong. I would contact Anthem.

Did you confirm you are on the latest MM firmware? Version 1.1.0, remember, upgrading the main firmware does not change the Multimedia firmware.
post #13311 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Getting there naturally by slightly moving the sub is really the best way to go. If you do force it to 120, post your 120 calculations so we can take a look.

I haven't moved the sub yet but here's the before graphs with the sub at 80hz sub like ARC set it. All the graphs look the same except the before and after sub graphs.





And here's the after with the sub forced to 120Hz



Edited by Legairre - 1/15/13 at 7:55am
post #13312 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I haven't moved the sub yet but here's the before graphs with the sub at 80hz sub like ARC set it. All the graphs look the same except the before and after sub graphs.

...

And here's the after with the sub forced to 120Hz

...


The only graph that should change was the sub, so that is as expected.

It appears ARC is able to fill the hole you have, but it is at the edge of what it can correct. If moving it doesn't improve things, this forced option is probably better than 80. Let's hope moving a few inches improves things at least a little wink.gif
post #13313 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gandy View Post

It was happening with MP3s as well. I just figured out I can run Plex on the Roku and pull them in that way. I just wonder if it passes everything through. The MRX 500 is playing the flac 96/24s from HDTracks ok. It sounds crazy good, but what do I know.......

I tried a 3 TB WD My Book and the MRX doesn't recognize the drive at all.

You're feeding a flac file directly to the MRX or are you going through the Roku?
post #13314 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

The only graph that should change was the sub, so that is as expected.

It appears ARC is able to fill the hole you have, but it is at the edge of what it can correct. If moving it doesn't improve things, this forced option is probably better than 80. Let's hope moving a few inches improves things at least a little wink.gif
Thanks, yeah it seems ARC is doing a pretty good job with the null. I'll spend some time later tonight and see if a few inches makes any difference.

I must admit I was skeptical about how ARC would sound. In the past I've had receivers with MCACC and Audyssey and ARC is hands down a big improvement over both of them. My previous receiver (used as a pre/pro) was a Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH. The Pioneer with MCACC was nice but it always seemed like something was missing. With ARC there is an airiness and spaciousness to it. For instance with movies ARC really makes you feel like you are in a much larger room. Our dedicated theater is 13x24 and ARC really conveys the effect of a much larger room space. ARC also blends a lot more seamlessly than I remember with MCACC and Audyssey. With ARC there is a sense of the music and sounds almost floating around you versus being directional when they shouldn't be. I read a lot reviews about ARC and I have to admit they were right. I'm just glad Anthem added ARC to the MRX line.
post #13315 of 16450
how hard is the ARC to learn? is it pretty simple and straight forward?
Edited by Ryder125 - 1/15/13 at 5:35pm
post #13316 of 16450
post #13317 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Thanks, yeah it seems ARC is doing a pretty good job with the null. I'll spend some time later tonight and see if a few inches makes any difference.

I must admit I was skeptical about how ARC would sound. In the past I've had receivers with MCACC and Audyssey and ARC is hands down a big improvement over both of them. My previous receiver (used as a pre/pro) was a Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH. The Pioneer with MCACC was nice but it always seemed like something was missing. With ARC there is an airiness and spaciousness to it. For instance with movies ARC really makes you feel like you are in a much larger room. Our dedicated theater is 13x24 and ARC really conveys the effect of a much larger room space. ARC also blends a lot more seamlessly than I remember with MCACC and Audyssey. With ARC there is a sense of the music and sounds almost floating around you versus being directional when they shouldn't be. I read a lot reviews about ARC and I have to admit they were right. I'm just glad Anthem added ARC to the MRX line.

Yeah... I am very happy with my results as well...the soundstage between my main and sub has never sounded better. I finally got to watch the DNR and the the bass was loud, tight and controlled...with my previous set up it would often get loud but the bass just seemed more exaggerated or boomy especially ~50hz & below....ARC really helped smooth out that region for my sub and the overall sound had an airiness or openness about it....I thought anyways.

Lastly...I'd like to replace my surrounds with similarly voiced speakers...maybe that would help fix that "huge" disparity between the fronts and surround around +/- 200hz because there should be a better balance between the two.smile.gif

As for how hard or difficult can it be using ARC software....if I could do it...anybody can.biggrin.gif
post #13318 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Ok, so here are my ARC files.



I've used the quick measure to move my sub around. Here's the new reading. What do you think? I'm wondering whether I should be looking at another sub?

post #13319 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

I've used the quick measure to move my sub around. Here's the new reading. What do you think? I'm wondering whether I should be looking at another sub?


This looks much better. You still have a spike (though not a mountain any more) at around 80-90Hz and a dip at about 100-150Hz but not as bad as before. This spike followed by dip may still trick ARC, we will see. But on the whole this looks much better! I'd give ARC a try and see what it thinks. I would have loved to see the dip get cut down a bit more, but it looks like you have done well with what you have to work with.

As for a new sub, I'm not sure if that would improve things much... I'm guessing a lot of what we are seeing is more based on your room itself. The sub looks to be very capable as is.
post #13320 of 16450
Okay I have my MRX hooked up and not sure why I can't seem to get the two channel analog from cd player. On the Anthem if I use none for video input I have no audio on analog, which is strange. Once I use HDMI it says 2 channel PCM. I'm pretty sure I put Auto or Through on video so it should just bypass shouldn't it? Is there a way to just use Analog 2 Channel for music?
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