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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 455

post #13621 of 16451
I'm finding that using Anthem Music on 2 channel analog in uses my subs much more than straight stereo does.. Because of this straight stereo sounds very thin to me. Is that normal?
post #13622 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by megame View Post

I'm finding that using Anthem Music on 2 channel analog in uses my subs much more than straight stereo does.. Because of this straight stereo sounds very thin to me. Is that normal?
If you have tower speakers capable of going down to 20hz, then I'd say it's not normal. But if you have towers that don't drop much below 40 hz, or bookshelves that don't drop below 60hz, then I'd say it's completely normal.
post #13623 of 16451
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Stereo mode use only the front R/L channels?
post #13624 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Stereo mode use only the front R/L channels?

I would think if you ran ARC in the "traditional manner" you would have left/right and subwoofer (based on the low pass crossover), correct?
post #13625 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Stereo mode use only the front R/L channels?
scirica is correct, if you have stereo with a crossover the sub will be on in the menu and it will use the sub too . If you want stereo without the sub you have to go into: Speaker Configuration >> Bass Management. Then change the fronts to large and set the sub to off. Then you'll have full range fronts in stereo without the sub.
Edited by Legairre - 2/13/13 at 4:02pm
post #13626 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

scirica is correct, if you have stereo with a crossover the sub will be on in the menu and it will use the sub too . If you want stereo without the sub you have to go into: Speaker Configuration >> Bass Management. Then change the fronts to large and set the sub to off. Then you'll have full range fronts in stereo without the sub.

My fronts are set to small 80Hz; so then the question remains why in stereo mode the sub is several dB quieter than when using anthem music?
post #13627 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by megame View Post

My fronts are set to small 80Hz; so then the question remains why in stereo mode the sub is several dB quieter than when using anthem music?

It's just a made up DSP setting. it's whatever the designer felt like.
post #13628 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by megame View Post

My fronts are set to small 80Hz; so then the question remains why in stereo mode the sub is several dB quieter than when using anthem music?
Also stereo mode directs all bass below the crossover from only the front L/R speakers to the sub while Anthem Music mode directs bass below the crossover from the front L/R and the surrounds to the sub. Since Anthem Music mode uses the surrounds while stereo doesn't use surrounds you just have more redirected bass because you have more speakers in the mix with Anthem Music mode. You have bass below the crossover from four speakers( or six speakers if you have a 7.1 setup, center is not used) with Anthem Music mode and only from two speakers with stereo
Edited by Legairre - 2/13/13 at 8:52pm
post #13629 of 16451
If the source is only two channel how could you possibly derive more bass below 80hz from it? Just because an internal DSP is processing those two channels in to 4, 5 or whatever channels doesn't mean you end up with anymore frequencies below 80hz than what is in the original source material.
post #13630 of 16451
It's not really more it's just where it's directed. If 2 channel and everything below a 80Hz crossover goes to the sub and then say Anthem music and you have 80Hz on the Front L/R and 120Hz on the surrounds. When in 2 channel you were only sending everything below 80Hz to the sub but now your sending bass below 80 & 120Hz. The sub is playing a wider range than it was in 2 channel and the bass will be more noticeable than if the other speakers were playing it. This is all assuming his surrounds have a higher crossover than his fronts like mine.
post #13631 of 16451
Just bought the Anthem MRX 700 and Paradigm Studio 100's. Only two pieces of the puzzle so far, but it's all I can afford for now. Glad to join the Anthem club!
post #13632 of 16451
Hey, congrats and welcome to the club.
post #13633 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Hey, congrats and welcome to the club.

Thanks! Now I gotta figure out what speaker wires to get..
post #13634 of 16451
You don't need to break the bank and spend a bunch of money on speaker wire. I can remember about 10 years ago when our house was being built, this old electrician was the guy in charge of overseeing all the wiring. I was telling him my plans for building a theater in the basement and I had always been one of those spend a bit on speaker wire guys. He told me copper is cooper don't waste your money. What you need is good oxygen free(so it doesn't oxidize) copper speaker wire with a good protective jacket and the right gauge. I took his advice and others here and on other forums and started buying my wire from places like monoprice.com and partsexpress.com. You'll be surprised how cheap good wire can be.
post #13635 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

You don't need to break the bank and spend a bunch of money on speaker wire. I can remember about 10 years ago when our house was being built, this old electrician was the guy in charge of overseeing all the wiring. I was telling him my plans for building a theater in the basement and I had always been one of those spend a bit on speaker wire guys. He told me copper is cooper don't waste your money. What you need is good oxygen free(so it doesn't oxidize) copper speaker wire with a good protective jacket and the right gauge. I took his advice and others here and on other forums and started buying my wire from places like monoprice.com and partsexpress.com. You'll be surprised how cheap good wire can be.

Ok thanks!
post #13636 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

You don't need to break the bank and spend a bunch of money on speaker wire. I can remember about 10 years ago when our house was being built, this old electrician was the guy in charge of overseeing all the wiring. I was telling him my plans for building a theater in the basement and I had always been one of those spend a bit on speaker wire guys. He told me copper is cooper don't waste your money. What you need is good oxygen free(so it doesn't oxidize) copper speaker wire with a good protective jacket and the right gauge. I took his advice and others here and on other forums and started buying my wire from places like monoprice.com and partsexpress.com. You'll be surprised how cheap good wire can be.

+++++1
post #13637 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyrocks View Post


Ah ha. Someone who has actually confirmed with Anthem that there is a deficiency in the subwoofer level after ARC. There have been several people complain about percieved weak bass, including myself, but we are always told to just listen to what ARC gives you for a while because you are just not used to hearing correct sound. This is indeed quite good advice, but I've been listening to what ARC sets for a little over a week now and though my perception has improved, it's not enough to make it sound right to my ears. As soon as I raise the sub level several DB it sounds better and like what I'd expect. I too have measured with my Rat Shack meter after ARC and the sub indeed does measure 3-4 DB lower thant the rest of the speakers. We are also told not to do this becaus the mic on the Rat Shack meter is not as accurate in the low region as the ARC mic, but it seems now there is some truth into what's going on here.



-Glen


I did the same thing. ARC set my sub to -4, bass is very very weak. I manually set it to 0 which is 4 db higher and it sounded perfect. Some people say to leave the ARC calibration alone, but for me, I will adjust it the way it sounded good to me. I also up my center channel 3 db and it sounds better on HT.
post #13638 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyrocks View Post


Ah ha. Someone who has actually confirmed with Anthem that there is a deficiency in the subwoofer level after ARC. There have been several people complain about percieved weak bass, including myself, but we are always told to just listen to what ARC gives you for a while because you are just not used to hearing correct sound. This is indeed quite good advice, but I've been listening to what ARC sets for a little over a week now and though my perception has improved, it's not enough to make it sound right to my ears. As soon as I raise the sub level several DB it sounds better and like what I'd expect. I too have measured with my Rat Shack meter after ARC and the sub indeed does measure 3-4 DB lower thant the rest of the speakers. We are also told not to do this becaus the mic on the Rat Shack meter is not as accurate in the low region as the ARC mic, but it seems now there is some truth into what's going on here.



-Glen
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

I did the same thing. ARC set my sub to -4, bass is very very weak. I manually set it to 0 which is 4 db higher and it sounded perfect. Some people say to leave the ARC calibration alone, but for me, I will adjust it the way it sounded good to me. I also up my center channel 3 db and it sounds better on HT.

I’ve changed my tune since this reply almost 2 years ago. I actually contacted Anthem to inquire about the possible sub level deficiency after ARC and Andrew from Anthem tech support didn’t say there was one at all. He just showed me a sample ARC chart with a high bass peak at 50 Hz that was being corrected. He said that I was just used to a peak in my room like this and that is the reason I thought the bass was weak after ARC corrected. So it is a myth that ARC sets the sub -4db low. The reason the Rat Shack meter measures a -4db deficiency is simply because the ARC mic is more sensitive down low and adjusts accordingly. You really do have to listen to what ARC sets for a while to get used to corrected sound. After 2 years of ownership of my MRX 300 I no longer raise the sub level over what ARC sets. If I want a little more oomph down low, I just use the bass tone adjustment anywhere from +2 through +6 depending on the material. That’s what those controls are there for. cool.gif

-Glen
post #13639 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyrocks View Post


I’ve changed my tune since this reply almost 2 years ago. I actually contacted Anthem to inquire about the possible sub level deficiency after ARC and Andrew from Anthem tech support didn’t say there was one at all. He just showed me a sample ARC chart with a high bass peak at 50 Hz that was being corrected. He said that I was just used to a peak in my room like this and that is the reason I thought the bass was weak after ARC corrected. So it is a myth that ARC sets the sub -4db low. The reason the Rat Shack meter measures a -4db deficiency is simply because the ARC mic is more sensitive down low and adjusts accordingly. You really do have to listen to what ARC sets for a while to get used to corrected sound. After 2 years of ownership of my MRX 300 I no longer raise the sub level over what ARC sets. If I want a little more oomph down low, I just use the bass tone adjustment anywhere from +2 through +6 depending on the material. That’s what those controls are there for. cool.gif

-Glen

Great follow up and I believe this is exactly how MRX owners should handle bass adjustments. For my Blu-Ray input I leave everything just the way ARC set it and it sounds wonderful. For my Directv input I go into the bass tone adjustment and pump that to +2 or +4.
post #13640 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Great follow up and I believe this is exactly how MRX owners should handle bass adjustments. For my Blu-Ray input I leave everything just the way ARC set it and it sounds wonderful. For my Directv input I go into the bass tone adjustment and pump that to +2 or +4.

Yep, blu-ray is amazing for me aswell just how ARC sets it. I bump up my Cox cable +2. With 2 channel music anywhere from +2 to +6 depending on the material and also use Anthem Music listening mode. \m/

-G
post #13641 of 16451
Hi Glen thanks for the great post. I haven't compared with my Rat Shack meter yet but when you measured with the Rat Shack did you apply the correction values that make the Rat Shack accurate. I use to use these spreadsheet that the admins at HomeTheaterShack created back when I had a BFD. They have the correction values built into them you just have to use the right spreadsheet for the model of RS meter you have. Just plug in the reading from the RS meter in the RAW SPL column and you'll get the actual SPL in the SPL with Calibration column.

I haven't tried it with the MRX but I will tonight when I get home.

OLDER RS Analog Meter MODEL #33-2050.xls 53k .xls file
NEWER RS Analog Meter MODEL #33-4050 and the RS Digital Meter MODEL #33-2055.xls 53k .xls file
post #13642 of 16451
Have something to tell us about it. Anthem is now selling it in Thailand.
post #13643 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

+++++1
Well this may be true to a point..I did a three month study using many different speaker cables..monster,audioquest,straight wire,cardas,kimber etc..they all sounded different..not bad just different, a few brands I just did not like at all..I'm using straight wire encore 2.. These stood out as near perfect balance and much more 3d sound,depth soundstage etc..but I do this with HDMI cables also..many people say there's not much difference..but.there is..its there!.. For most anything decent will do,but I'm obsessed with any slight improvement in sound and picture!
post #13644 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Well this may be true to a point..I did a three month study using many different speaker cables..monster,audioquest,straight wire,cardas,kimber etc..they all sounded different..not bad just different, a few brands I just did not like at all..I'm using straight wire encore 2.. These stood out as near perfect balance and much more 3d sound,depth soundstage etc..but I do this with HDMI cables also..many people say there's not much difference..but.there is..its there!.. For most anything decent will do,but I'm obsessed with any slight improvement in sound and picture!

I don't see Encore 2's under speaker cable (I do in interconnects) on their website. Am I missing something?
Did you mean one of the others for speaker wire? Just curious.
post #13645 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Well this may be true to a point..I did a three month study using many different speaker cables..monster,audioquest,straight wire,cardas,kimber etc..they all sounded different..***

I assume (from the erroneous conclusion) that your "study" was sighted, not blind.
post #13646 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I assume (from the erroneous conclusion) that your "study" was sighted, not blind.

Or he has "bat-like" hearing abilities. I do believe that quality of speaker wire is important to getting as much as possible out of your system, but I'm skeptical about that much differentiation between high-end brands.
post #13647 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean-l View Post

I don't see Encore 2's under speaker cable (I do in interconnects) on their website. Am I missing something?
Did you mean one of the others for speaker wire? Just curious.
Encore 2 has been discontinued that's why its not showing up..they produced them back when pure cooper was not as expensive..anything from straight wire is very very good..you will notice a difference I guarantee that!.. And yes I'm a very critical listener with bat ears..lol...I have c.o.d. when it comes to audio/video..lol. The sad thing is I have two sets of straight wire crescendo analog interconnects that cost more than the Mrx..but now those and my DAC are useless, but that's the price we pay for arc!
post #13648 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I assume (from the erroneous conclusion) that your "study" was sighted, not blind.
Oh no..it was a blind study with 5 of my audio guru's one owns a very hi end asaudio store..we are all critical listeners..and we all heard a very big difference in speaker cables and HDMI cables..not to much in interconnects but they were there ..just slight changes in soundstage,depth etc..I know this is a highly debated topic and these observations are just my opinion..like I said I'm obsessed with this hobby..I have parasound halo amps ,Mrx 300,oppo 103 brp..everything is hooked up with upgraded pangea power cords running into a Furman elite power conditioner,all paradigm studio speakers and a velodyne spl-1000 sub
Happy listening!
post #13649 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Oh no..it was a blind study with 5 of my audio guru's one owns a very hi end asaudio store..we are all critical listeners..and we all heard a very big difference in speaker cables and HDMI cables..not to much in interconnects but they were there ..just slight changes in soundstage,depth etc..I know this is a highly debated topic and these observations are just my opinion..like I said I'm obsessed with this hobby..I have parasound halo amps ,Mrx 300,oppo 103 brp..everything is hooked up with upgraded pangea power cords running into a Furman elite power conditioner,all paradigm studio speakers and a velodyne spl-1000 sub
Happy listening!

Did you know all of the HDMI cables in the world are made in the same place? The actual wire spools. And the way the signal is processed from HDMI either everything is read correctly or nothing is correct. Does anyone in your group know anything about digital signal processing? The only difference will be the fancy connectors / shielding if you have any external interference. It is highly debated because one side doesn't debate. They make outrageous claims not backed by any verifiable facts.
post #13650 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

Did you know all of the HDMI cables in the world are made in the same place? The actual wire spools. And the way the signal is processed from HDMI either everything is read correctly or nothing is correct. Does anyone in your group know anything about digital signal processing? The only difference will be the fancy connectors / shielding if you have any external interference. It is highly debated because one side doesn't debate. They make outrageous claims not backed by any verifiable facts.

It can make a difference if on the edge of the maximum distance for HDMI, which varies from 6-12 yards. Though I suspect the cables tested were probably 1 or 2 metres where there'd be no difference whatsoever.

The L/C/R characteristics of speaker cables do vary but usually only detectable above 16kHz.

Though maybe this is the wrong thread to discuss such things. smile.gif
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