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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 459

post #13741 of 16450




Did a first stab at ARC last night. I will tweak it a bit and rerun over the weekend. I already know my sub is the weakest link since it rolls off around 38hz. I need to review my channel levels and post them as well.
post #13742 of 16450
Quote:
I've never used the Event Viewer before. Didn't really know about it. What exactly would I be looking for?]

You get to it via Control Panel > Admin Tools > Event Viewer

Click on Windows Logs and then probably in Application (or possibly System) look for the red !Error at the times you used ARC on your laptop.
Edited by mhuk - 2/22/13 at 12:05pm
post #13743 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mominayal View Post

Hi all,

My set up is mrx 300 with MCA 30 for my CM9 LCR. Sounds amazing for movies. Playback with my sonos unit does not sound so good. Specifically there is a major drop off in the bass from the sub. Interstingly when I play the sonos and have the L and r channel disconnected the sub pounds hard. Once they are back on....not much at all. The setting for the speakers are all small 60Hz. I have tried changing the listening mode from streo to Anthem Music, to PLIImusic but no help.

What should I do?

The fact that your Sub output appears to reduce when the L & R are playing would seem to imply that the Sub is out-of-phase with the mains - in effect the speakers are working against each other through the crossover region (around 60Hz in your case). You could try altering the Listener Position value for the Sub - while checking each change with a track that demonstrates the effect you're describing. You have actually set all the Listener Positions to the correct values? This has to be done manually - ARC does NOT set it for you.
Note:- Main speaker distances should be set to the actual measured value - but Subwoofers often delay the signal due to internal DSP actions, so the distance may not be the same as a straight measurement.
I always 'tweak' the sub distance to optimize the crossover splice between mains & sub - but I use measuring equipment to test each setting (laborious, but worth the effort)

Regards, Mike.
post #13744 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Your graphs look really good. ARC also set your sub to 120Hz and you have nice response down low, and your speaker levels look good too. What sub did you get it looks like it plays really low? It's also good that you set the ARC HPF to FLAT with a sub that plays low.cool.gif

Legairre
Thank you
The sub is Paradigm monitor Sub 12 ..
Edited by pixellman - 2/22/13 at 1:54pm
post #13745 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellman View Post

Legairre
Thank you
The sub is Paradigm monitor Sub 12 ..

I have the Sub15 and I have to say I'm impressed with Paradigm subs!!
post #13746 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVS View Post

I really like the UMC-200 aside from just a few annoyances that will likely be fixed with a firmware update, just as not remembering what Playback mode you set for a source between power cycles. Certainly nothing major.

As far as EmoQ EQ goes, it just turns the sound in to a lifeless and very thin sound, and when you run it once and then run it again, it will completely change the recommended crossover settings on your speakers. In addition after calibration your channel output levels will be off by as much as 3 db when using a SPL to measure manually. I got fed up with EmoQ and just run everything in Direct mode, but my room really needs equalization. Being fed up with it I went a purchased a Pioneer SC-61 with the D3 amps, and after listening to the UMC-200/UPA-500 combo I quickly took the Pioneer back and reinstalled the UMC-200. Sound is so much more open, airy, with better detail and bass. I was very surprised by the difference. I replaced a Denon 3312CI with the UMC-200 and remember at the time of the change that it was a nice improvement but didn't realize how much until I tried another receiver immediately after listening to the UMC-200. To be fair I tried the Pioneer with and without Equalization and compared to the UMC-200 found the sound rather lifeless, and closed in.

I am wondering whether it would be worth it to give the MRX-300 a shot either as a preamp or standalone for the room correction. The room is a dedicated theater room that I use obviously for movies but also for critical music listening.
Can you still return the Emo? I'd say it's definitely work giving an MRX-300 a try. ARC is very impressive.
post #13747 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachelor View Post





Did a first stab at ARC last night. I will tweak it a bit and rerun over the weekend. I already know my sub is the weakest link since it rolls off around 38hz. I need to review my channel levels and post them as well.
What sub do you have and do you have a the sub's crossover bypassed or have the subs crossover turned up as high as it will go to get it out of the way?
post #13748 of 16450
Here are my results from the first run of ARC. Any comments are appreciated. Fronts are Definitive Technology Pro tower 400 with built in Subwoofers. No stand alone SUB but I ran as a sub with LFE connection split to both.



post #13749 of 16450
Can someone explain what ARC is trying to do? I see the red as measured and the blue as target, but what exactly is calculated? Is that what the speakers will play after the correction? Is the reason it's not closer to the ideal target line because it is just not possible?

I would have expected calculated to be the amount of correction ARC will induce to get to the 'blue line', but the graphs do not follow this.
post #13750 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Can you still return the Emo? I'd say it's definitely work giving an MRX-300 a try. ARC is very impressive.

I can't return it but I am sure I can sell it for just under what I paid for it anyway. I will likely give it a try. Would you recommend MRX-300 over the 500. i won't use the Anthem streaming I have other boxes for that. What do you think as far as using the internal amps versus a separate amp. I guess the thing would be to try both.
post #13751 of 16450
Quote:
Would you recommend MRX-300 over the 500.

I tried an MRX-300 while I waited for my MRX-500 to arrive...I am using (MRX-500) it as a prepro with an Outlaw 7500 (5x200W); no difference in sound quality. I went for the MRX-500 because it has more power and also has USB for streaming and Ethernet for Internet radio (even though I have those features with my Oppo BDP-103). I wanted the extra power only if I ever had trouble with my amp, i.e., needed to decide new amp or no amp and go with MRX-500 internal amps...
post #13752 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by MES2 View Post

Here are my results from the first run of ARC. Any comments are appreciated. Fronts are Definitive Technology Pro tower 400 with built in Subwoofers. No stand alone SUB but I ran as a sub with LFE connection split to both.





MES2. I'm not familiar with your speakers but I can tell you
That there is a problem with the measurements of your left/right
Speakers. One has lots bass the other none! Something
Must be wired incorrectly.
post #13753 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

MES2. I'm not familiar with your speakers but I can tell you
That there is a problem with the measurements of your left/right
Speakers. One has lots bass the other none! Something
Must be wired incorrectly.

While ARC was doing the measuring the left front response was smooth, the right front created a loud distortion/vibration noise. I was actually worried there was a problem with the right but playing music and movies with the Denon and Anthem pre ARC sounded fine. After ARC did its thing everything still sounds good.

As I mentioned, they have built in amplifiers to power a second 6 inch driver, so I can only presume that either the gain on the left and right amplifier provide completely different output at a similar level, or the amplifier on the left unit is defective. My understanding is that the speakers can be run "normally" as full range by simply connecting via the speaker terminals which triggers a preset crossover for the sub driver, or by connecting an optional LFE input as well, which will override the preset crossover and allow the amplifier/processor to set the crossover points. The only available adjustment on the speaker is a gain/volume control.

I will play around to see if I can determine the reason to the difference between the output on the fronts.
post #13754 of 16450
How do I read a quick measure chart?

These charts are where I placed the sub on the floor right in front of my normal listening position (I pushed the sofa back) and then took quick measure readings by placing the microphone in several positions:

Corner by bookcase


Current sub position


Front left corner


End of sofa by door


End of sofa by radiator



And these are my ARC readings prior to today's Quick Measure on the sub:




Looking at the Quick Measure charts which is the best place to put the sub in and what on the chart shows this? My guess would be by the bookcase as it's most similar in shape to the one in the FAQs and is flatter around 100hz than the front left corner?

Ideas, help and suggestions much appreciated smile.gif

The sub is an SVS 25-31pci, the floor is wooden (above a cellar so the sub tends to boom even when placed on a sandwich of high density foam/ paving slab/ high density foam) and there is no acoustic treatment in the room but it's on my list to read, learn and implement as soon as possible...
Edited by mhuk - 2/23/13 at 7:38am
post #13755 of 16450
MES2 do a search on this thread about using Def Tech speakers
With ARC... I seem to recall some interesting problems/solutions
Regarding the built in powered subs on your speakers.
post #13756 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuk View Post

How do I read a quick measure chart?

These charts are where I placed the sub on the floor right in front of my normal listening position (I pushed the sofa back) and then took quick measure readings by placing the microphone in several positions:

Corner by bookcase


Current sub position


Front left corner


End of sofa by door


End of sofa by radiator



And these are my ARC readings prior to today's Quick Measure on the sub:




Looking at the Quick Measure charts which is the best place to put the sub in and what on the chart shows this?

Ideas, help and suggestions much appreciated smile.gif

The sub is an SVS 25-31pci, the floor is wooden (above a cellar so the sub tends to boom even when placed on a sandwich of high density foam/ paving slab/ high density foam) and there is no acoustic treatment in the room but it's on my list to read, learn and implement as soon as possible...

MHUK, 1st and 3rd (top to bottom) are the most promising. Good luck!
post #13757 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuk View Post

You get to it via Control Panel > Admin Tools > Event Viewer

Click on Windows Logs and then probably in Application (or possibly System) look for the red !Error at the times you used ARC on your laptop.

Thanks. I've looked back several months or at least as far back as I can remember trying my last upload and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I did see errors, but they seem to be minor errors associated with other stuff that occur in a monthly pattern with regular use of the laptop. They aren't associated with ARC. I dunno. confused.gif I will look at the event log more closely the next time I try an ARC upload.

-G
post #13758 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by megame View Post

I'm finding that using Anthem Music on 2 channel analog in uses my subs much more than straight stereo does.. Because of this straight stereo sounds very thin to me. Is that normal?

You are right, there's something wrong.
I use my MRX without subwoofer but has the same issue.
What i don't understand is that Anthem call it music mode but even then it change the frequencie curve when going from stereo to Anthem music !
I allready wrote about this a long time ago, but no one responded to my post.
I even thought about writing to Anthem asking what's going on with the equalizing in Anthem music mode.
For me it's unusable with music listening when it change the bass octaves that way, and why should it ?
I just calibrated the sound to my room and speakers to have a linear responce !
post #13759 of 16450
Anthem music 2 channel uses the front L/R and surrounds. In my with my setup Anthem music has more bass than 2 channel because my 4 surrounds have a 120Hz crossover and my fronts have a 60Hz crossover. In 2 channel my sub is only playing the bass from 60Hz down, but with Anthem Music using the surrounds and they have the 120Hz crossover it's sending a much wider frequency range to my sub. It's just a matter of my sub playing bass from 120Hz down with Anthem music and only from 60Hz down in 2 channel . What is the crossover of your surrounds?
post #13760 of 16450
Anthem Music does change the FR of the front speakers. It's easy to hear using pink noise. I agree it is unacceptable for music.

Like the above poster that's why I stopped using it.
post #13761 of 16450
So is it safe to say the green 'calculated' is the corrected speaker output? Do you get those graphs only after ARC listen's, determines the adjustments to reach target, you upload the adjustment, and it listens again to the corrected output?
post #13762 of 16450
Yes the green is the corrected. You run ARC once, check your graphs and if they look good you don't have to run ARC again. Just make changes in the target window and see the results in the graphs as many times as you like and then upload to the MRX. As long as you don't have to move the speakers or seating you only have to run ARC once. You can change the target window , see the results in the graphs and upload as many times as you like without re-running ARC.
post #13763 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Anthem Music does change the FR of the front speakers. It's easy to hear using pink noise. I agree it is unacceptable for music.

Like the above poster that's why I stopped using it.

What mode do you use for two-channel music? I always like the way Anthem
Music sounds...now you got me thinking. What were the FR changes?
post #13764 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Yes the green is the corrected. You run ARC once, check your graphs and if they look good you don't have to run ARC again. Just make changes in the target window and see the results in the graphs as many times as you like and then upload to the MRX. As long as you don't have to move the speakers or seating you only have to run ARC once. You can change the target window , see the results in the graphs and upload as many times as you like without re-running ARC.

Thanks for the explanation!
post #13765 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by MES2 View Post

While ARC was doing the measuring the left front response was smooth, the right front created a loud distortion/vibration noise. I was actually worried there was a problem with the right but playing music and movies with the Denon and Anthem pre ARC sounded fine. After ARC did its thing everything still sounds good.

Does it sound like something is "loose" or "rattling". Happens at the same frequency every pink noise run/burst? It's not loud for me, more of a little rattle. Same side FR.

I had a driver(speaker) in the speaker replaced a while ago because of this. I could NOT replicate it or "feel" anything.

So I took it down to the American Corp office for my speakers (which happened to be in my city until they shut it down, BUMMER!)

Anyway they said yes they thought something was wrong. So they replaced it. BUT the noise has NOT gone away. And once again I have NEVER been able to replicate it. NOR has there EVER been any indication during usage of static/SQ/rattling etc. But then a pink noise run is not like regular usage. So I just thought something was loose in the speaker and the pink noise aggravated it and lived with it. U gotta think I swapped speakers around before taking it down for repair, but for the life of me I can't remember.

I wish I could remember if it was something that STARTED happening or always did with my Anthem(s) ARC runs. I also can't remember if it happened with a Marantz, but I KNOW it didn't with an Arcam AVR400.

Maybe it's time I ran ARC switching some speakers around. Left to right and maybe move a newer REAR speaker up there to see if it does it.

Time to figure out if it's the speaker or the FR from ARC doing it. Anthem MRX700 number 4?
Edited by dean-l - 2/24/13 at 3:54am
post #13766 of 16450
Ok, I used quick measure to try and set the gain on the Front L/R Amplifiers to get similar results and then remeasured with ARC. Graphs attached for run 2. This time I removed the rears from the Music profile.







the vibration/noise generated by the L and R fronts with test signal is now produced by both, but only happens during measurements. I presume that sub is actually triggered during this measurement as well as when the sub signal is measured. Due to the range of the L/R test signal it causes surrounding objects to vibrate. It is not present during regular use after ARC is calibrated and uploaded. I wonder if it skews the results produced?
post #13767 of 16450
After much "fun" I've moved by my SVS cylinder and it's not hidden away any more and is sitting on a black foam insert from a large Peli case.. I'd forgotten how large the sub looks!

ARC for the old sub position:



ARC for the new sub position:


Using the rain scene from Hero to test the new front heights the sub seemed more punchy, with no boom although ARC is still setting the crossover to 80hz. Is the graph better or is it as good as I can get without any bass traps/ acoustic panels?

Thanks smile.gif
post #13768 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuk View Post

After much "fun" I've moved by my SVS cylinder and it's not hidden away any more and is sitting on a black foam insert from a large Peli case.. I'd forgotten how large the sub looks!

ARC for the old sub position:



ARC for the new sub position:


Using the rain scene from Hero to test the new front heights the sub seemed more punchy, with no boom although ARC is still setting the crossover to 80hz. Is the graph better or is it as good as I can get without any bass traps/ acoustic panels?

Thanks smile.gif

I don't see the green line for the new sub position. Did you re-calculate? I'm certainly no expert but it looks to me like you sub is rolling off below 50 hz.
post #13769 of 16450
Quote:
I don't see the green line for the new sub position

I'm must have taken a screenshot before I clicked calculate, here's the chart from opening the config file:



What would that suggest in terms of room acoustics if it rolls off below 50hz? Is it the block of high density foam it's stood on?

The sub is now besides the front right speaker, with a wall behind it and a bookcase to the right of it - no room to move it as it would either block the front speaker or be in front of a working fireplace eek.gif
post #13770 of 16450
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuk View Post

I'm must have taken a screenshot before I clicked calculate, here's the chart from opening the config file:



What would that suggest in terms of room acoustics if it rolls off below 50hz? Is it the block of high density foam it's stood on?

The sub is now besides the front right speaker, with a wall behind it and a bookcase to the right of it - no room to move it as it would either block the front speaker or be in front of a working fireplace eek.gif

I might have missed it, but what is the manufacturer and model of your sub?
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