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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 516

post #15451 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBint View Post

I have a quick question for MRX300 owners. I am considering picking one up used, but I am concerned about the dimensions because of the design of the rack I am using, and there is nowhere local where I can check it out myself. The specs are 17.25in wide by 15.25in deep (43.9cm by 39.0cm). The question is, what does this include? Can someone with easy access to a unit do a quick measurement for me? I need to know the size of the chassis itself, both depth (faceplate to backplane, not including knobs or connectors) and width (chassis only, not including faceplate). Please?

43x33.4 cm
post #15452 of 16457
I'm at work right now but I can go into the MRX speakers configuration menu and set my AUX (center backs) to Zone 2 as the manual says to do for a 5.1 system even though I have 7.1.
Quote:
MRX manual page 15, section 3.2: If you are using 5.1 speakers, use the Surround outputs and set Aux to Zone 2 so no sound is lost.

If I then play a 7.1 BD like Iron Man 3, Expendables etc... and the front display reads DTS 3/2 then it's the core DTS track, but if it reads DTS-HD MA 3/2 it's the DTS-HD MA 5.1 track on my 7.1 system. It should be as simple as reading the front display to see whether the core(DTS 3/2) or if it's the Master Audio (DTS-HD MA 3/2) with the center backs mixed into the surrounds.

Is it me or am I simplifying this way too much?
post #15453 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

[quote name="philb37" url="/t/1289533/anthem-mrx-receivers-300-500-700-owners-thread-tweaking-guide/15420#post_23787160"]Hmm so I invested in a 300 put heights in and now tough mate? Im not feeling the love.....[/quote]Not sure I understand... why exactly are you looking to replace your 300?

New arc? Would you advise not then?
post #15454 of 16457
Thanks, Rock Danger, I think I can make it work!
post #15455 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The thing is, if you play the Disney "WOW World of Wonder", Blu-ray, DTS-HD MA 7.1 test track in a 5.1 speaker configuration, you get ALL 7.1 channels (down-mixed to 5.1 speaker output)! Which means it can't be decoding just the Core, right? Something is different between the AIX encode and Disney's encode and I've got no clue what it is.

There's more weird stuff going on with DTS than you can shake a stick at.
--Bob

I just got word that with this disc the MRX 310 also mixes the back channels to the sides (Bob is a 710 tester). I have asked our supplier for clarification regarding different modes. Hopefully the whole thing will be cleared up by tomorrow. And folks just a reminder, unlike the 710 and 510, the 310 is a work in progress not due until January or February depending on transit time from the factory, whereas 710 and 510 are already in a ship.

Well this has been very interesting so far and I'm very sorry if it caused anyone to stay up too late!
post #15456 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by philb37 View Post

New arc? Would you advise not then?

That depends on which problem needs fixing, your priorities in terms of functionality, and what it's all worth to you.

First, look at the green curve in your MRX 300 ARC results. If it matches the target as closely as you would like then there doesn't seem to be a need for looking further. More filters will help if the green curve is wiggly to the point of audibility, and the traditional good practices for speaker positioning etc have been observed.

Next, rank your feature priorities. Do you need height channels more than additional filtering? That one seems easy to answer.

Finally, and this applies regardless of anything else, only the individual can answer what it's all worth. My usual advice, and this comes mostly from experience with owning expensive amplifiers when I was younger, then from 12 years of taking pre-sales calls daily while at tech support: Do overspend because you'll never be able to enjoy it and do not underspend because you'll be spending more before you realize.

At least that's how I look at things. It's really up to you.
post #15457 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I'm at work right now but I can go into the MRX speakers configuration menu and set my AUX (center backs) to Zone 2 as the manual says to do for a 5.1 system even though I have 7.1.


If I then play a 7.1 BD like Iron Man 3, Expendables etc... and the front display reads DTS 3/2 then it's the core DTS track, but if it reads DTS-HD MA 3/2 it's the DTS-HD MA 5.1 track on my 7.1 system. It should be as simple as reading the front display to see whether the core(DTS 3/2) or if it's the Master Audio (DTS-HD MA 3/2) with the center backs mixed into the surrounds.

Is it me or am I simplifying this way too much?

Incorrect! DTSMA Blu ray7.1 to 5.1 setup, you need to have the player in LPCM or you will get DTS.
post #15458 of 16457
As for the whole, is the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track using the core DTS 5.1 track if you only have a receiver configured for 5.1 speakers? Here's what I did and found.

1) Re-ran ARC setup configured as 5.1(on my 7.1 system)
2) Set Aux output as Zone 2 as the manual says to do on page 15, section 3.2 for a 5.1 setup.
3) Played several DTS-HD MA 7.1 Blu-rays.

Here's the pics of the results:

Front display for a 7.1 Blu-ray with system configured as 5.1. The front display shows the incoming signal that it is decoding


Front display for a 7.1 Blu-ray with system configured as 5.1 when you press the "Audio" button. The front display shows the incoming signal on the top and the outgoing on the bottom after it's been decoded.


Looks to me like a DTS-HD MA 7.1 track on a 5.1 system is playing the core DTS 5.1 track. Just press the audio button and you'll always be able to tell what track the MRX is outputting on the on the second row of the display.

Looks like MRX 310 owners are going to be getting the core DTS 5.1 track on DTS-HD MA 7.1 Blu-rays, unless they use their players for decoding.
Edited by Legairre - 9/30/13 at 4:53pm
post #15459 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Incorrect! DTSMA Blu ray7.1 to 5.1 setup, you need to have the player in LPCM or you will get DTS.
Thanks Brian, I wasn't really saying what the outcome would be, but more what the process would be to determine the output.

BTW: you were correct.
post #15460 of 16457
What we do know is the Anthem (not sure of other AVRs) process is confusing. Without pressing the audio button, you might think that your are getting DTS Ma. If you don't have the AIX disc, get it.http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T9Hy9d%2BNL.jpg
post #15461 of 16457
Well put Brian. It's very confusing and a bit misleading. No wonder there's so much confusion about what the MRX 310 will display. From your post it sounds like you already knew what the outcome would be. cool.gif
post #15462 of 16457
I'd still like to know what's different about the AIX and Disney DTS-HD MA 7.1 tracks. What's clear is that if you are getting 7.1 channels of content down-mixed to 5.1 speakers -- as is happening with that Disney test track -- then you are not just hearing the Core audio. The Core is never more than 5.1 discrete channels (just like regular DTS).
--Bob
post #15463 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

That depends on how many 4-ohm speakers you're about to use. Using them on all channels is not recommended but I've never seen an issue when using them just for the front three plus sub, or with the front L/R playing full range (no sub). With a sub and bass management, some of the the load is taken away from the amp.

In the opposite case, electrostatic speakers where the low impedance comes in on the upper end, the level from source material isn't high enough to pose an issue for the amp. Some of the MRX testers are co-workers at our sister company Martin-Logan, and not one related issue was reported for either MRX generation in use with the elecrostats.

Take this as just anecdotal evidence, I'm running a MRX-500 with 5 Magnepan speakers (1.7's for L/R, CC3 center, MC1's for surrounds) and a subwoofer. Whether movies or multi-channel music, have not felt the need for a separate amp, loudest we would typically listen to is -10 on the volume control. Even after extended listening, the MRX is never more than warm. Not saying to disregard Nick's advice, just pointing out that for my setup, with my listening habits, do not have the need for a separate amplifier.
post #15464 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'd still like to know what's different about the AIX and Disney DTS-HD MA 7.1 tracks. What's clear is that if you are getting 7.1 channels of content down-mixed to 5.1 speakers -- as is happening with that Disney test track -- then you are not just hearing the Core audio. The Core is never more than 5.1 discrete channels (just like regular DTS).
--Bob

Maybe an issue with WOW.
post #15465 of 16457
Could be, but if 7.1 channels are actually getting to the 5.1 speakers, and if the Bitstream is being seen as DTS-HD MA, that sounds like the right sort of "issue" to have.
--Bob
post #15466 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

In the opposite case, electrostatic speakers where the low impedance comes in on the upper end, the level from source material isn't high enough to pose an issue for the amp. Some of the MRX testers are co-workers at our sister company Martin-Logan, and not one related issue was reported for either MRX generation in use with the elecrostats.

I am curious if Martin Logan (or Paradigm) would test their higher-end speaker models on the MRX. For example the Summit X is $15K / pair and the recommend amp range is large --as little as 20W and as much as 600W.
post #15467 of 16457
This was posted in the Paradigm thread. Figured you guys may be interested as well.
Quote:
Next year, Anthem will introduce a high-end two-channel preamp to complement the new M1 monaural digital amplifier. But surround products are on the roadmap as well, including a refresh of the receiver lineup, new multi-channel amplifiers and a next-generation Statement processor.

http://www.marketnews.ca/QA/FEATURE:SupplySide-CanadianMade:ParadigmElectronicsInc..html?page=1
post #15468 of 16457
Thanks Legairre for the message earlier.

I actually gave up with trying to get to the bottom of this as the goalposts keep moving. But say you're right for the moment and it's mixed down to core only. That's about 70% of home theatre user not getting hi res audio and all their 7.1 movies have a ceiling of 1.5Mbps as opposed to a 7.1 setup that will be variable up to 6Mbps for something like 'Tron Legacy' and 11.5 Mbps for 'I am Legend'

Then regarding the set your player to LPCM over HDMI - I did and it didn't sound any better but lit the display up as multi channel (as it should) I then took a full rip of Tron into the computer and ran it as LPCM and DTSMA (bypassing microsofts codecs) and again no audible difference.

So with that said, is the 1.5Mbps ceiling in the upper end of our hearing and anything above is little to no use on 5.1? If so, it is misleading from the entire industry and not one manufacturer.

My 2 cents on it so far.
Edited by Rock Danger - 10/1/13 at 3:37am
post #15469 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

This was posted in the Paradigm thread. Figured you guys may be interested as well.
"Next year, Anthem will introduce a high-end two-channel preamp to complement the new M1 monaural digital amplifier. But surround products are on the roadmap as well, including a refresh of the receiver lineup, new multi-channel amplifiers and a next-generation Statement processor."

Take it from me, the product manager: The Statement multichannel refresh is on the back burner. Yes, AVS people, you read it here first. It's a huge R&D undertaking and the tech keeps changing e.g. 4K then HDMI 2.0 / 4K60 then HDCP 2.2 within the year, and no one knows whether the market will accept the push any more than 3D. Even if 4K60 demand turns out to be higher than 3D's, the content delivery has a few more hurdles. We're just as tired of it as our customers are, and have other things to keep us busy in the mean time. The article, which surprised me when I saw how forward-looking it was - I had no part in it - is outdated in certain areas, and the person in the first picture hasn't been at the company for months. Not to worry, everyone working or visting our Cedia booth last week felt that things have been a lot more upbeat this year than in quite some time.
Edited by Nick @ Anthem - 10/1/13 at 5:52am
post #15470 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'd still like to know what's different about the AIX and Disney DTS-HD MA 7.1 tracks. What's clear is that if you are getting 7.1 channels of content down-mixed to 5.1 speakers -- as is happening with that Disney test track -- then you are not just hearing the Core audio. The Core is never more than 5.1 discrete channels (just like regular DTS).
--Bob

Can't answer that but did get confirmation from our supplier (for MRX the only part of the DSP that we do is ARC and AnthemLogic) that MRX 310 "uses core+extension 7.1 => 5.1 downmix based on the table below", which I couldn't view. So, another day to see what's in it.

eta: just got the re-send and it's the mapping coefficients including for wide and height channels. Still doesn't answer your question, an encoder thing, but at least we know that the less common "extra" surround formats are also being handled by the 310 and for that matter 510/710 in downmix mode.
Edited by Nick @ Anthem - 10/1/13 at 5:28am
post #15471 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I am curious if Martin Logan (or Paradigm) would test their higher-end speaker models on the MRX. For example the Summit X is $15K / pair and the recommend amp range is large --as little as 20W and as much as 600W.

Some time ago I hooked up MRX 500 to Summit X in the factory's demo room. No issue.
post #15472 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Without pressing the audio button, you might think that your are getting DTS Ma.

The format is displayed the moment that bitstream is acquired on new series incl. 310.
post #15473 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Can't answer that but did get confirmation from our supplier (for MRX the only part of the DSP that we do is ARC and AnthemLogic) that MRX 310 "uses core+extension 7.1 => 5.1 downmix based on the table below", which I couldn't view. So, another day to see what's in it.

Nick, not sure if you are permitted to disclose the information or not --- who does your DSP programming for the MRX series?

Cheers.
post #15474 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Can't answer that but did get confirmation from our supplier (for MRX the only part of the DSP that we do is ARC and AnthemLogic) that MRX 310 "uses core+extension 7.1 => 5.1 downmix based on the table below", which I couldn't view. So, another day to see what's in it.

eta: just got the re-send and it's the mapping coefficients including for wide and height channels. Still doesn't answer your question, an encoder thing, but at least we know that the less common "extra" surround formats are also being handled by the 310 and for that matter 510/710 in downmix mode.

Nick, could you please define your 'downmix mode' in regards to 7.1 > 5.1

Is it definitively core only @ 1.5Mbps max? (all models 310 / 510 / 710)

And obviously 5.1>5.1 ends up as full resolution @ 24.5 Mbps variable? If the first question is the case, is setting your player to LPCM over HDMI the way around it to give you core+ extension (full HD audio) ? It's very bizarre that all AVR's would do this when presented with a 7.1 signal but not a 5.1 signal.

When I asked DTS they said it wasn't the case re: 7.1 > 5.1 Not calling you a liar or anything just seems to go back and forward a lot. You'd think someone who works for DTS would come along and say something.
post #15475 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

This was posted in the Paradigm thread. Figured you guys may be interested as well.
http://www.marketnews.ca/QA/FEATURE:SupplySide-CanadianMade:ParadigmElectronicsInc..html?page=1

Thanks, nice story. Glad to hear they are bringing "home" some manufacturing.
post #15476 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Take it from me, the product manager: The Statement multichannel refresh is on the back burner. Yes, AVS people, you read it here first. It's a huge R&D undertaking and the tech keeps changing e.g. 4K then HDMI 2.0 / 4K60 then HDCP 2.2 within the year, and no one knows whether the market will accept the push any more than 3D. Even if 4K60 demand turns out to be higher than 3D's, the content delivery has a few more hurdles. We're just as tired of it as our customers are, and have other things to keep us busy in the mean time.

Have you considered getting out of video entirely, going audio-only like Bryston, at least on the Statement line?
Quote:
the person in the first picture hasn't been at the company for months.

Maybe that's why the picture had no caption naming the individual cool.gif
post #15477 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Danger View Post

Nick, could you please define your 'downmix mode' in regards to 7.1 > 5.1

Is it definitively core only @ 1.5Mbps max? (all models 310 / 510 / 710)

He has said the downmix "uses core+extension" several times now. Plus the fact that it is a "downmix" must mean Master Audio, as core would not need downmixing!
Edited by AVfile - 10/1/13 at 8:24am
post #15478 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

Can't answer that but did get confirmation from our supplier (for MRX the only part of the DSP that we do is ARC and AnthemLogic) that MRX 310 "uses core+extension 7.1 => 5.1 downmix based on the table below", which I couldn't view. So, another day to see what's in it.

eta: just got the re-send and it's the mapping coefficients including for wide and height channels. Still doesn't answer your question, an encoder thing, but at least we know that the less common "extra" surround formats are also being handled by the 310 and for that matter 510/710 in downmix mode.

Is this also true for the 300?
post #15479 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post

The format is displayed the moment that bitstream is acquired on new series incl. 310.
Nick, is that the output/decoded format or like the 300 where we are seeing the incoming signal constantly displayed . On the 300 to see what is being output/decoded we need to press the audio button as the pics I posted show. I think a lot of people assumed what they saw constantly displayed was how it was output/decoded and not what was input.
post #15480 of 16457
So...when correctly set up for dts hdma 7.1, when i push audio what should display read? As I have heights, should it be what i get dolby pliiz?

Confused...

I get in order...

Pliiz
Dts 5.1
Dolby vs wide
Dolby vs ref
None
Dolby pliiz
Edited by philb37 - 10/1/13 at 8:01am
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