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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 525

post #15721 of 16457
Well, side wall placement and turning the subwoofer didn't solve the null issue.....but after two hours of just doing Quick Measure, I figured it out!
I have two rows of 3 seats and the subwoofer is in the left front corner. Using Quick Measure at every seat, I found that each seat on the right side of the room had SEVERE nulls from 60Hz and up (basically, after 60Hz it looked like a sheer cliff drop-off). The middle and left seats had pretty normal small peaks/nulls.

When I run ARC, I normally use my boom mic stand to place the microphone in the middle of each seat at ear height, so I have six total measurements. Here is the ARC results of using my normal six measurement spots showing I still have bad nulls from 60Hz on up causing ARC to use 80Hz for the LFE LPF setting:


Here is the same graph with me manually setting the LFE LPF to 120Hz:



Now, here is where the hours of Quick Measure paid off. The following graph is using new measurement spots (front row middle seat, front row between left and middle seat, front row between right and middle seat, back row between left and middle seat, and back row between right and middle seat):


Now, as you can see, ARC still set the LFE LPF to 80Hz (as the 80Hz setting had a near perfect Flat response curve), so I cheated a little more and manually set it to 120Hz and here is the final result (the curve isn't as Flat as the 80Hz setting, but it is dang close):

And here is the Target screen for this graph:

Levels are +2 for FL, 0 for Center, +2 for FR, -1 for SR, -1 for SL, and -3 for Subwoofer


Using the new mic placement and changing the LPF LFE setting to 120Hz manually, my MLP (middle seat, front row) and secondary MLP (middle seat, back row) sounds better than it did with the Sub 25. Nothing is missing from my normal reference scenes, instead there is more detail in the mid-LFE range and the room is more pressurized in the ultrasonic range (sub-20Hz).

The other big plus is that while experimenting with Quick Measure I found that when the F25 is placed in the right front corner the major 60-70Hz null is mainly present on the two left side seats of the room, whereas when the sub is in the left front corner the null is mainly present on the two right side seats of the room. This makes me feel that getting a second F25 and placing it in the right front corner SHOULD knock out this major 60-70Hz null across all seats and voila! Time will tell obviously.

So excited!
Edited by BigCoolJesus - 10/19/13 at 6:51pm
post #15722 of 16457
Hey Big Coll J,
That sub must sound Amazing! Congrats on your purchase. Rythmik's are amazing subs.
post #15723 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPoon View Post

i have my mrx700 for over a year now...got to admit the ARC makes a huge difference (owned pioneer elite, denon, sony es receivers previously....). Like most of you in this forum .. I experience speaker clicking/ pop sound during initial power on or switching source/inputs.

I hope anthem addresses this issue with the new mrx710s... and that the hdmi can be upgraded to 2.0 std.

I'm eyeing out on this mrx710 or the next iteration of the NAD T7XX receiver line.
I have the same issue, a slight pop, click, a codec noise when powering on, changing source etc. Its worse when listening to certain CDs as it is very noticeable when transitioning between tracks. For those CDs I use my Myryad via analog. I worked with Andrew at Anthem via email for weeks and finally sent in the my MRX 500 as he felt it was a resolvable issue. But after a few weeks I received a call from Anthem telling me they could not reproduce the problem! It was sent back and still has the issue. Others I have spoken to like Tony (TK01) on here, gave up and replaced the MRX with other makes. I have kept the 500 because while it was being "serviced" I tried similarly priced Marantz and Pioneer units to find them to be less desirable in SQ, especially in 2 channel music. If I had the money, I would have replaced the 500 with a CA651/751. TBH, while disappointing, it is more of an annoyance or inconvenience given the timing and level of the noise. Movies are not a problem and neither is watching TV (except for changing Channels) and the use of the analog eliminates the problem for music except the SACD, DVDA that have to be played via the OPPO. Given the problems others have experienced I consider myself lucky. At least Anthem tried to resolve the issue and perhaps it is inherent to certain combinations of equipment? One thing for sure, I doubt Anthem will be using the same Chinese manufacturer as they did for the MRX300, 500, 700 line ever again.

Resigned to my little clic
post #15724 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post


Using the new mic placement and changing the LPF LFE setting to 120Hz manually, my MLP (middle seat, front row) and secondary MLP (middle seat, back row) sounds better than it did with the Sub 25. Nothing is missing from my normal reference scenes, instead there is more detail in the mid-LFE range and the room is more pressurized in the ultrasonic range (sub-20Hz).

The other big plus is that while experimenting with Quick Measure I found that when the F25 is placed in the right front corner the major 60-70Hz null is mainly present on the two left side seats of the room, whereas when the sub is in the left front corner the null is mainly present on the two right side seats of the room. This makes me feel that getting a second F25 and placing it in the right front corner SHOULD knock out this major 60-70Hz null across all seats and voila! Time will tell obviously.

So excited!
I think your right, putting a second sub in the right front corner should solve the nulls. If you do get another one keep us posted as it would be interesting to know the results.
post #15725 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post


Can someone please clarify this issue? Are Anthem MRX x10 receivers capable of processing high resolution FLAC files over HDMI, or do they need to down-sample the incoming signal? What about high resolution DTS-HD Master Audio (96 kHz, 24 bit, 5.1)? It is unusual that Anthem does not cover any high resolution audio formats in the specs. For example, if you read specs for sub $1000 receivers from Yamaha, Pioneer, and Marantz, you can easily tell that these receivers fully support 192kHz/24Bit AIFF/WAV/FLAC formats as well as DTS-HD Master and Dolby TrueHD multi channel audio decoding.

Are Anthem receivers peculiar in this respect so that when ARC is engaged during playback they will down-sample ALL high resolution audio to some lower resolution format? If so, that would be truly bizarre especially for a $2000 receiver like MRX 710.

There is no media player on the MRX x10 series. To play Flac media source you will probably have to use a media such as the one in the oppo 103 who will convert a High Rez Flac source into Multichannel High Rez PCM format through the HDMI connection.
post #15726 of 16457

I have a question for you all, my sub graph starts to go down below 30hz, very quickly below 25hz, from off the top of my head probably a 9db difference from 20hz to 25hz. This is locating the sub anywhere in my room, and locating the mic anywhere either so I can't see how it would be the room. Also my sub is right beside one front speaker and the front speakers are flat on the graph right to 20hz. Is this just a limitation of my sub? I am one of those people who doesn't like to have a sub on for music and my fronts have always had enough bass for me for music (and as mentioned, my graph for them has no drop or indication of drop down to 20hz which makes sense). The fronts are Paradigm studio 100 and the subwoofer is a 10" 500w RMS PW2100v2.

 

My sub volume control is slightly below 90 degrees and from what I remember ARC set it to -4db to -6db (which I had increased manually in the level control somewhat, as I only use the sub for movies anyways)

 

My room is roughly 2000-3000 cubic feet (not big).

 

Just curious if this sub just can't play effectively below 25hz as I haven't seen anyone else have a sub graph like mine. Strange my fronts play lower.

post #15727 of 16457
Hi Leap, what sub do you have? Depending on the sub it's possible that it doesn't play much below 30Hz. If it does play below 30Hz are you sure the sub's crossover is turned off or at least turn the sub's crossover knob as high as it will go to get the crossover out of the way if it doesn't have a switch to turn off the sub's crossover. If the subs crossover is on it will cause your sub to roll off real early.
post #15728 of 16457

The sub is a Paradigm PW2100 v2, 10" 500w RMS. crossover is all the way up. Phase is 0 (although I've tried experimenting for the sake of it, but as mentioned it is directly beside and inline with the front speaker). I know Paradigm only lists the lfe as low 20s on the sub, but I would think it would go lower than my fronts, just doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Not that I'm too concerned as it sounds great as a whole, just curious about the unusual graph.

 

Thanks for the reply!

post #15729 of 16457
Thanks Leap can you post pics of your ARC sub graph and target window?
post #15730 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

There is no media player on the MRX x10 series. To play Flac media source you will probably have to use a media such as the one in the oppo 103 who will convert a High Rez Flac source into Multichannel High Rez PCM format through the HDMI connection.

OK, thanks. Can MRX x10 receiver play high resolution PCM signal without downsampling?
post #15731 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

OK, thanks. Can MRX x10 receiver play high resolution PCM signal without downsampling?
There is no specs info on that, if You read the newly released downloadable manual it says
Quote:
5.8 LISTENING MODES
Refer to the Input Setup section for a description of listening modes. Once the receiver’s
display shows the input format, the listening mode preset will apply. If you wish, you can
make a different selection after pressing the MODE button.
When playing a multichannel source, a listening mode may not be applicable if the source
material is not PCM and its sampling rate higher than 96 kHz, or if you are using less than
7.1 speakers and the source is already multichannel.
hope that helps for the moment, otherwise I guess You'll have to wait what ppl find out for all the quirky PCM stream configs that might be out there, in the end it's the player that decides what/if compatible PCM is delivered wink.gif
post #15732 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post


Can someone please clarify this issue? Are Anthem MRX x10 receivers capable of processing high resolution FLAC files over HDMI, or do they need to down-sample the incoming signal? What about high resolution DTS-HD Master Audio (96 kHz, 24 bit, 5.1)? It is unusual that Anthem does not cover any high resolution audio formats in the specs. For example, if you read specs for sub $1000 receivers from Yamaha, Pioneer, and Marantz, you can easily tell that these receivers fully support 192kHz/24Bit AIFF/WAV/FLAC formats as well as DTS-HD Master and Dolby TrueHD multi channel audio decoding.

Are Anthem receivers peculiar in this respect so that when ARC is engaged during playback they will down-sample ALL high resolution audio to some lower resolution format? If so, that would be truly bizarre especially for a $2000 receiver like MRX 710.

I think there is some misunderstanding here of the differing sampling frequencies and what they mean.

The DACs within the Anthem processors are fully capable of processing 192kHz/24bit audio, just like the DACs from companies like Yamaha, Pioneer and Marantz.

This downsampling you reference is the sampling rate that the audio stream is converted to when applying some sort of digital signal processing like room correction. This is not restricted to Anthem, either. Read the Secrets article by David Rich, which demonstrated that when using Audyssey room correction in a very capable Marantz processor, an incoming signal with a sampling rate 96kHz was downsampled to 48kHz in order to perform room correction functions. With Audyssey disabled, the incoming signal was NOT downsampled.

My guess is performing DSP and room correction on an incoming audio signal at >=96kHz sample rate demands a lot of processing horsepower- and the article even states that Anthem's top of the line D2V will perform room processing functions on incoming audio streams up to 96kHz.

I think people are confusing the capabilities of the DACs (Anthem is identical to other manufacturers in this regard) in terms of sampling rate and the above, which was referring to the sampling rate that audio signals are converted to while performing room correction.
post #15733 of 16457

Legairre - sure

 

 

post #15734 of 16457
Thanks Leap, in the target window click on the advanced button and change the Subwoofer High Pass Order to "Flat". With it set as auto it's rolling off your bass similar to having the crossover on the sub engaged. No need to re-run ARC just change the setting and calculate and your sub chart should show you getting bass down to around 20Hz. Then just upload to the MRX again.
post #15735 of 16457
^ Uh, no that's not a good idea. Obviously this Subwoofer, as currently placed, is not capable of reproducing bass below 30Hz -- see its Red Measured curve.

Changing the low bass Target to "Flat" will just increase the amount of residual error. As is the Sub can't even comply with the rolled off Target.

In general, this does not look like a happy Sub at all. Its high bass output also has problems. Perhaps it is too small for the room?
--Bob
post #15736 of 16457

The room is 2000-2500 cuft (small room) and the sub is a 10" 500w RMS Paradigm PW2100 v2 - should I have a larger sub? Also as I mentioned it shouldn't be placement, I have tried both sub and mic in all locations of the room on the quick measure and can't get the response lower. Also as mentioned my front speakers (of which the sub is directly beside) have great 20hz extension, from the top of my head it isn't even -3db off average @ 20hz from my fronts. Sub is in front right corner of room, seating area is centered and a few feet from rear wall. 8' ceiling.

 

Thanks Bob

post #15737 of 16457
Why would the placement of his sub prohibit the sub from producing down to what it's capable of? the sub is capable of producing down to around 20Hz. If we played a 20-25Hz sine wave the sub should be able to reproduce it . Maybe I'm not understanding you Bob. If anything it looks like the sub's crossover is engaged, but Leap says it's not.
post #15738 of 16457
^ Have you tried a side wall placement yet? Some subs are not happy in a corner.
--Bob
post #15739 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Why would the placement of his sub prohibit the sub from producing down to what it's capable of? the sub is capable of producing down to around 20Hz. If we played a 20-25Hz sine wave the sub should be able to reproduce it . Maybe I'm not understanding you Bob.

Look at his chart. The Red Measured curve does not lie. That's the raw output of the Sub. Obviously it is having trouble below 30Hz. Boosting the input signal to it to try to counter that is not a good idea.

Some subs have issues in certain placements. For example, some servo-equipped subs don't work well in corners due to the interaction from the reflections confusing the servo.

Off-hand this looks to me like a sub that's too small for the room (any Sub will fail to meet its specs if placed in a room too large for it to pressurize adequately), or has some setup error on it. But barring an obvious switch settings mistake on it, repositioning is the only alternative.
--Bob
post #15740 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Why would the placement of his sub prohibit the sub from producing down to what it's capable of? the sub is capable of producing down to around 20Hz. If we played a 20-25Hz sine wave the sub should be able to reproduce it . Maybe I'm not understanding you Bob. If anything it looks like the sub's crossover is engaged, but Leap says it's not.

To add to what Bob says about this, even if the sub is capable of significant output down to 20 Hz (quite a feat for a 10" sub btw), it clearly is not able to provide that to the positions measured for ARC from the location it has been placed in. The sub could produce 100 dB at 20 Hz, but if a room mode is reducing output by 30 dB at the listening position, it doesn't really matter. The sub's position doesn't stop it from reproducing 20 Hz, but it may prevent that 20 Hz information from being heard at the MLP. So asking ARC to boost it further in that region will result in distortion, reduced headroom at higher frequencies, and possibly sub damage, whenever the source calls for high output in that region. And all with no apparent change in the output for those frequencies at the listening position.

You could try quick measure with the mic an inch or two away from the sub's driver to get a better idea of what the sub is capable of with minimal room interference. It would not be unusual though for a 10" sub to begin rolling off quickly below 30 Hz.
post #15741 of 16457
OK thanks now I understand what he was saying. I thought he was talking about the subs capabilities. Basically his sub could be producing a null below 30Hz in the location ARC was measured at.
post #15742 of 16457

Thanks for the discussion all, I believe it likely is just the capability of the sub based on performance from my fronts, and I did try the sub mid wall and in different locations (and the mic within a few feet of the sub) with similar results.

 

What of the 10" HSU and SVS subwoofers, are they similar in this regard and thus to have a relatively flat output to 20hz I would require a 12" or later, or are the HSU and SVS better than Paradigm in this regard?

 

Thanks again.

post #15743 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellraiser1951 View Post

Thanks for info on Piero. I contacted him by email and he was very fast in returning my email with the answer I wanted to hear. They received my unit today from Buffalo and he said they would look into it in the next couple of days. Now that was excellent on the part of Paradigm (Anthem) to answer my email so fast.

Thanks for your info.

Pete
Funny, I've sent 3 emails to Piero since 10/17 and have yet to even get a response. I sent my MRX300 in for repairs and am only asking for an ETA on the repair and they won't even acknowledge receipt of the unit. I guess they pick and chose who they want to provide good customer service to.
post #15744 of 16457
GUYS PLEASE HELP!!!
I JUST CONNECTED MY NEW MRX 300 AND UPDATED ITS SOFTWARE ETC.. long story short, when i connect it via hdmi to my ps3, i get HORRIBLE distortion through my speakers when dts plays and sometimes it seems as if the sound just wont engage at all!!
is this a setting on the playstation? please help!!
post #15745 of 16457
Sounds like you have Dolby volume turned on and it's causing the distortion. I had the same problem when I first got my MRX. Just go into the "Level Calibration" menu and turn Dolby Volume Leveler amount to off and also the Dolby Volume Offset to 0.

Also make sure you hit the Dolby Vol button twice on the remote and use the up/down keys until you see "Normal" displayed on the MRX. normals means off for the dynamic range.
post #15746 of 16457
nothing.... what should be my settings for the listening mode presets? would that be part of the problem??? dts is NOT working FOR ME.. i get crazy distorted crackling noises that i had to get off the couch and run quick to turn the unit off!!
post #15747 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpri View Post

There is no specs info on that, if You read the newly released downloadable manual it says

Quote:
5.8 LISTENING MODES
Refer to the Input Setup section for a description of listening modes. Once the receiver’s
display shows the input format, the listening mode preset will apply. If you wish, you can
make a different selection after pressing the MODE button.
When playing a multichannel source, a listening mode may not be applicable if the source
material is not PCM and its sampling rate higher than 96 kHz, or if you are using less than
7.1 speakers and the source is already multichannel.

hope that helps for the moment, otherwise I guess You'll have to wait what ppl find out for all the quirky PCM stream configs that might be out there, in the end it's the player that decides what/if compatible PCM is delivered wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post

I think there is some misunderstanding here of the differing sampling frequencies and what they mean.

The DACs within the Anthem processors are fully capable of processing 192kHz/24bit audio, just like the DACs from companies like Yamaha, Pioneer and Marantz.

This downsampling you reference is the sampling rate that the audio stream is converted to when applying some sort of digital signal processing like room correction. This is not restricted to Anthem, either. Read the Secrets article by David Rich, which demonstrated that when using Audyssey room correction in a very capable Marantz processor, an incoming signal with a sampling rate 96kHz was downsampled to 48kHz in order to perform room correction functions. With Audyssey disabled, the incoming signal was NOT downsampled.

My guess is performing DSP and room correction on an incoming audio signal at >=96kHz sample rate demands a lot of processing horsepower- and the article even states that Anthem's top of the line D2V will perform room processing functions on incoming audio streams up to 96kHz.

I think people are confusing the capabilities of the DACs (Anthem is identical to other manufacturers in this regard) in terms of sampling rate and the above, which was referring to the sampling rate that audio signals are converted to while performing room correction.

That would be me who is confused. Thank you mazpri and thrand1 for explaining the details.
post #15748 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamaross View Post

nothing.... what should be my settings for the listening mode presets? would that be part of the problem??? dts is NOT working FOR ME.. i get crazy distorted crackling noises that i had to get off the couch and run quick to turn the unit off!!
Your listening more presets aren't the problem. What is the PS3's internal volume set at? Hit triangle on the PS3 remote when you have a DVD or BD playing , then speaker icon(volume) and make sure it's set to "normal". Also make sure the PS3 DRC(dynamic range control) is set to "off" in AV Settings next to the speaker icon.

BTW let us know if you get it and we can help with the listening modes too.
post #15749 of 16457
ok i did what you just said and turning off the dynamic range made the screen say "dts hd master 3/2" for the very first time. I also noticed the crackling noise is still there, but it is NOT as frequent and so i turned the unit off and on and now i dont get any sound AT ALL only picture...but the display on the receiver says dts hd mtr 3/2...
post #15750 of 16457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Your listening more presets aren't the problem. What is the PS3's internal volume set at? Hit triangle on the PS3 remote when you have a DVD or BD playing , then speaker icon(volume) and make sure it's set to "normal". Also make sure the PS3 DRC(dynamic range control) is set to "off" in AV Settings next to the speaker icon.

BTW let us know if you get it and we can help with the listening modes too.[/quote

i did what you suggested and now i dont get any sound, but the screen on the receiver says dts master 3/2 which it didnt say before... Also, when i go to netflix through my playstation, i get no sound on most movies and some have sound???
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