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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 540

post #16171 of 16451
A second sub may not eliminate the roll-off over 50 hz. It's not that your sub can't do, it's a matter of finding the right position. By introducing a second sub, it may running ARC a bit more complicated.
post #16172 of 16451
hmm, i remember when i had my 2nd sub that it def sounded a lot better. I had some time today to do some quick measures. I can only really use my front stage area. so ill label them test 1 through 7 and i can tell what spot they were in. but all seem to have a dip near the 50hz range.

test 1


test 2


test 3


test 4


test 5


test 6


test 7
post #16173 of 16451
Unfortunately you have a null from around 45Hz to 90Hz.. You're going to be missing a lot of mid bass with that null. Try moving your sub to another location and see if the null is gone. A second sub could cancel out the null but it would need to be in a different place than your first sub. I would just try a different place for the sub before getting another one.
post #16174 of 16451
i unfortunately can't really place it much of any where else. i have 1 more spot but don't really want it there. I had originally put 1 sub on either side of the tv stand. was more even throughout the room. where right now i can pin point what side of the room i hear more bass.
post #16175 of 16451
^^^ I like graph # 6 the best. Have you considered rotating the sub 90degrees to the
Left or right and then checking your measurement?? That's what I did, sub driver faced into
The listening area, I turned the driver to face the left and the null vanished. Weird,huh? But it
Got rid of a similar null
post #16176 of 16451
Anyone here measure the final ARC settings with REW software to see how well it actually works? For those who don't know, REW, unlike ARC, is able to give a real, final measurement, not just "calculated" filters.

Anyone who's worked with other EQ's manually knows the difficulty in taming nulls (frequency dips) and modes (frequency peaks), and that applying filters at those problematic frequencies does not automatically translate in the real world. I think the reason Anthem does not do a final measurement to see the effects of applied filters is because they know that the discrepancy between "calculated" and final measurement would cause a lot of confusion--"Why aren't my final measurements the same as the calculated ones?"

So, after doing the REW measurements, here are my findings:

1) It's effective for reducing room modes (peaks) below 100hz but I achieved flatter response applying manual filters with an outboard EQ (BFD).
2) It doesn't appear to do very much at all at frequencies from 100hz up.

Some seem to be intimidated by REW, but I figure if you've gone through the aggravation of learning ARC, why not use one more piece of software provide a final (actual) measurement? REW works with the anthem mic--just run the software. .

So many people post the same screenshots of the anthem calculations, but few have done final measurements with REW.

I suggest the most recent beta version 5.01 as this allows you to use the USB mic

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/#downloads
Edited by tubeheadEL34 - 12/31/13 at 3:11pm
post #16177 of 16451
A concern that I have with ARC. Those who've applied manual EQ filters in the past know the risk of trying to correct room nulls (dips). Some dips are uncorrectable and applying too many +db filters can strain the subwoofer and rob it of headroom. ARC claims not to apply more than +6db for any given null, but is the software smart enough to actually distinguish between unfixable room nulls, and ones that can be corrected?
Edited by tubeheadEL34 - 12/31/13 at 3:37pm
post #16178 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubeheadEL34 View Post

Anyone here measure the ARC settings with REW software to see how well it actually works? For those who don't know, REW unlike ARC is able to give a real, final measurement, not just "calculated" filters.

Anyone who's worked with other EQ's manually knows the difficulty in taming nulls and modes and that applying filters at given frequencies does not automatically translate in the real world. I think the reason Anthem does not do a final measurement to see the effects of applied filters is because they know that the discrepancy between "calculated" and final measurement would cause a lot of confusion--"Why aren't my final measurements the same as the calculated ones?"

So, after doing the REW measurements, here are my findings:

1) It's effective for reducing room modes (peaks) below 100hz but I achieved flatter response applying manual filters with an outboard EQ (BFD).
2) It doesn't appear to do very much at all at frequencies from 100hz up.

Some seem to be intimidated by REW, but I figure if you've gone through the aggravation of learning ARC, why not use one more piece of software provide a final (actual) measurement? REW works with the anthem mic--just run the software. .

So many people post the same screenshots of the anthem calculations, but few have done final measurements with REW.

I suggest the most recent beta version 5.01 as this allows you to use the USB mic

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/#downloads

Didn't know you could use the MRX mic... Is the mic accurate enough to just plug it in and measure?
What about the calibration file for each mic? Do you need it? More details on this would be good. biggrin.gif
post #16179 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Didn't know you could use the MRX mic... Is the mic accurate enough to just plug it in and measure?
What about the calibration file for each mic? Do you need it? More details on this would be good. biggrin.gif

Yeah, I was surprised that REW recognized the anthem mic as soon as I started it.

The anthem mic surprisingly provides very similar results to the radio shack SPL meter I've used in the past. I did use a calibration file for the meter, but none for the mic.

Switching ARC on and off, and measuring with REW, I found almost no changes above 100hz (contradicting ARC's calculated measurements); in fact there are some inexplicable dips which didn't exist with ARC off. No too bad below 100hz , but as I mentioned, I was able to achieve flatter results manually through trial and error using REW filters and an outboard EQ. Essentially, achieving flat response comes down to trial and error, and it's more painstaking and involved than ARC. Sometimes filters at given frequencies cause unpredictable affects on other frequencies.

For me the most offensive frequency anomalies are in the low frequencies, and for that ARC did well, but I expected better results above 100hz.
Edited by tubeheadEL34 - 12/31/13 at 3:35pm
post #16180 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubeheadEL34 View Post

Yeah, I was surprised that REW recognized the anthem mic as soon as I started it.

The anthem mic surprisingly provides very similar results to the radio shack SPL meter I've used in the past. I did use a calibration file for the meter, but none for the mic.

Switching ARC on and off, and measuring with REW, I found almost no changes above 100hz, in fact there are some inexplicable dips which didn't exist with ARC off. No too bad below 100hz, but as I mentioned, I was able to achieve flatter results manually through trial and error using REW filters and an outboard EQ. Essentially, achieving flat response comes down to trial and error, and it's more painstaking. Sometimes filters at given frequencies cause unpredictable affects on other frequencies.

For me the most offensive frequency anomalies are in the low frequencies, and for that ARC did well, but I expected better results above 100hz.

Thanks,although I am now wondering how accurate the MRX mic is without using the included
Mic calibration file that is included with the ARC program.

If the mic isn't dead on accurate couldn't that skew the results??
post #16181 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Thanks,although I am now wondering how accurate the MRX mic is without using the included
Mic calibration file that is included with the ARC program.

If the mic isn't dead on accurate couldn't that skew the results??

Good point. I just noticed there is in fact an anthem calibration file for the mic. I thought it was just a serial number thing. Man, now I have to unpack all that hardware again out of those ridiculously small boxes and remeasure. I really hope I have better results. Hopefully I'm able to load the anthem cal file as easily as the one for the radio shack SPL meter.

Will post my results and screen caps.

I appreciate that someone's concerned about final/real measurements as well. Last year I made a post about the importance of doing a final measurement with REW and not a single person replied. Perhaps most people blindly trust the "calculated" ARC estimations, are intimidated by REW, or just couldn't be bothered.

Happy new year.
Edited by tubeheadEL34 - 12/31/13 at 3:56pm
post #16182 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubeheadEL34 View Post

Good point. I just noticed there is in fact an anthem calibration file for the mic. I thought it was just a serial number thing. Man, now I have to unpack all that hardware again out of those ridiculously small boxes and remeasure. I really hope I have better results. Hopefully I'm able to load the anthem cal file as easily as the one for the radio shack SPL meter.

Will post my results and screen caps.

Happy new year.

Let me know how it goes....I'm very curious. I just didn't want to
Spring for a new USB mic. Just being cheap I guess.tongue.gif
I'm willing to give this a try!

If you want feel free to PM me on your progress, I don't want to
Derail this thread.

Currently very happy with my MRX and how it sounds...just curious
Like I said.
post #16183 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

^^^ I like graph # 6 the best. Have you considered rotating the sub 90degrees to the
Left or right and then checking your measurement?? That's what I did, sub driver faced into
The listening area, I turned the driver to face the left and the null vanished. Weird,huh? But it
Got rid of a similar null

+1. I did this in my last place and it really smoothed out the bass.
post #16184 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Let me know how it goes....I'm very curious. I just didn't want to
Spring for a new USB mic. Just being cheap I guess.tongue.gif
I'm willing to give this a try!

If you want feel free to PM me on your progress, I don't want to
Derail this thread.

Currently very happy with my MRX and how it sounds...just curious
Like I said.

I'm sure that most owners would love to know how accurate the ARC settings are, verified by 3rd party software.

Not sure why it's so hard to find the REW download link, but it can be found in the last post at the bottom of this page:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/47460-v5-01-beta-downloads-asio-support.html

Direct link to windows software:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/downloads-area/41995d1367687508-v5-01-beta-downloads-asio-support-wizardinstallv5.01beta17.exe

Linux and apple versions available as well. Need to register for a free account to download the free software.
post #16185 of 16451
Tried to load the Arc calibration file into REW without success. Unlike the Radio Shack file which can be read with notepad, can't read the Arc file. I hope I don't need to buy yet another mic. The Radio Shack SPL meters are good for the low frequencies but struggle with the higher stuff. I want to know whats going on up there because Arc claims to adjust up to 5khz.
post #16186 of 16451
That's what I was afraid of. Wonder how accurate the anthem mice are w/o
The calibration file. They are all individually calibrated (IIRC).

Looks like a calibrated USB mic is needed for proper evaluation. mad.gif
post #16187 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

^^^ I like graph # 6 the best. Have you considered rotating the sub 90degrees to the
Left or right and then checking your measurement?? That's what I did, sub driver faced into
The listening area, I turned the driver to face the left and the null vanished. Weird,huh? But it
Got rid of a similar null

+1. I did this in my last place and it really smoothed out the bass.

+2, turned mine 90° inward and got rid of a null in the 50 to 80 zone
post #16188 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

That's what I was afraid of. Wonder how accurate the anthem mice are w/o
The calibration file. They are all individually calibrated (IIRC).

Looks like a calibrated USB mic is needed for proper evaluation. mad.gif

I've compared various ARC mics with calibrated mics and REW. When uncalibrated, the ARC mics are all over the place. I wouldn't use them except with ARC.
post #16189 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

I've compared various ARC mics with calibrated mics and REW. When uncalibrated, the ARC mics are all over the place. I wouldn't use them except with ARC.

So? Have you done any final measurements with REW?
post #16190 of 16451
Yep. It usually does have a measurable improvement., although it is most apparent in the bass.

I started a thread a while back about objective tests of room correction codecs:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435060/rew-measurements-for-room-correction-systems-ypao-arc-audyssey-etc

I personally don't use ARC above the bass region, usually setting the limit to 200-300Hz.
post #16191 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

^^^ I like graph # 6 the best. Have you considered rotating the sub 90degrees to the
Left or right and then checking your measurement?? That's what I did, sub driver faced into
The listening area, I turned the driver to face the left and the null vanished. Weird,huh? But it
Got rid of a similar null

when the sub was in the #6 position i tried it and didn't see a difference. I didn't try it at the other side of the room though (only tried kiddy cornering it). Ill give it a shot. I did find that i got the best on screen graph with it down the middle of the side wall, but when i tested it out on music, it sucked, there was no low end. So i ended up putting it back in orig. spot for the time being. But ill try running it on spot 6 and see how it sounds after arc calculates it!. so do you guys still think its a waste to grab a 2nd sub? I'm finding a lot with just the single that if i close my eyes i can some what pick what ear hears more bass. Where when i ran 2 it was even on both sides and a lot smoother.
post #16192 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post

when the sub was in the #6 position i tried it and didn't see a difference. I didn't try it at the other side of the room though (only tried kiddy cornering it). Ill give it a shot. I did find that i got the best on screen graph with it down the middle of the side wall, but when i tested it out on music, it sucked, there was no low end. So i ended up putting it back in orig. spot for the time being. But ill try running it on spot 6 and see how it sounds after arc calculates it!. so do you guys still think its a waste to grab a 2nd sub? I'm finding a lot with just the single that if i close my eyes i can some what pick what ear hears more bass. Where when i ran 2 it was even on both sides and a lot smoother.

Did you try it with movies when it was in the middle of the side wall? Could it be that the music you tried didn't have a lot of bass?

I think you can pick out the sub's location because of the roll-off.

I was using a PB10-nsd in a 12x14 room with a pair of Energy RC-10 bookselves and the bass was quite well blended and was not localized.
Edited by audit13 - 1/2/14 at 3:41pm
post #16193 of 16451
the track i was playing had tons of low end bass, and it was there, but in the corner lol. Im not really sure what else to do. I might just end up picking up another NSD and hope i can get better graphs. I def know it sounded a lot better with the 2.
post #16194 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post

the track i was playing had tons of low end bass, and it was there, but in the corner lol. Im not really sure what else to do. I might just end up picking up another NSD and hope i can get better graphs. I def know it sounded a lot better with the 2.

If the track had a lot of low-end bass and it sounded to thin or didn't have enough bass, that is enough to convince me that the roll-off is the problem, not the sub. Getting a second sub may help but it could also make the sound more muddy or bass-heavy.
post #16195 of 16451
do you think maybe trapping the 2 main corners first (where its bass heavy) to see if that helps? I know they need to be trapped regardless. (i can buy 4ft tall corner bass traps locally for $130 each)
post #16196 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostility View Post

do you think maybe trapping the 2 main corners first (where its bass heavy) to see if that helps? I know they need to be trapped regardless. (i can buy 4ft tall corner bass traps locally for $130 each)

Are you able to try out the subwoofer crawl? You could try that first. You could also improvise by making some pseudo bass traps by covering a broom stick with a thick comforter.
post #16197 of 16451
@Hostlity, just wondering were you able to correct the null you had from 45 to about 90Hz at your main seating position?
post #16198 of 16451
i can try the subwoofer crawl when i get a chance, but I've honestly put the sub in every spot i can put it. Also for the null, every spot i put it in, theres always that dip between that HZ. Im thinking i may just get the bass traps for the corner to see if that can help. Unfortunately the room isn't the best as it has vinyl floors onto of concrete. I have a rug in between the couch and t.v but still a lot of flat surfaces around.
post #16199 of 16451
Is anyone annoyed that the display shows "700" regardless of receiver model? I emailed anthem to release a new update but never heard back from them.

I expect my 300 model to read 300, not 700.

Nitpicky? Absolutely not! It's the principal...


NEW FIRMWARE PLEASE !!
post #16200 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubeheadEL34 View Post

Is anyone annoyed that the display shows "700" regardless of receiver model? I emailed anthem to release a new update but never heard back from them.

I expect my 300 model to read 300, not 700.

Nitpicky? Absolutely not! It's the principal...


NEW FIRMWARE PLEASE !!

Are you running the latest firmware?
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