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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 125

post #3721 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyrocks View Post

As far as the sub level goes, I'm not sure what it matters if it's -5 when it's still within the correction range of -12 to +12.

-G

No, shouldn't make much difference I don't think, would just mean you had a stronger line out signal from the MRX to your sub if you were closer to 0, but I suspect that Anthem has made sure the range -12 to +12 does not allow the over all line out signal to get to weak (-12) or to strong (+12) within the correction range they permit.
post #3722 of 16451
In regards to the 1080p24 passthrough bug, I did further experimenting last night and found that when set to passthrough, the Mrx processes the signal as you can still see the menu and volume overlay. This is known already, but what I found interesting was setting the output to 1080p60 and now you get no volume overlay and when you hit the menu button, the Mrx changes resolutions as I can see it syncing and there is a delay with the image and then the menu appears. Turn off the menu, and you get the same delay/flash screen sync delay. So I'm curious if anthem can figure out a way to allow a true passthrough for 1080p24 but at the same time provide volume and menu overlay without getting the flashing sync screen.
post #3723 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post
In regards to the 1080p24 passthrough bug, I did further experimenting last night and found that when set to passthrough, the Mrx processes the signal as you can still see the menu and volume overlay. This is known already, but what I found interesting was setting the output to 1080p60 and now you get no volume overlay and when you hit the menu button, the Mrx changes resolutions as I can see it syncing and there is a delay with the image and then the menu appears. Turn off the menu, and you get the same delay/flash screen sync delay. So I'm curious if anthem can figure out a way to allow a true passthrough for 1080p24 but at the same time provide volume and menu overlay without getting the flashing sync screen.
In true Passthrough, there is no way to provide the On Screen Display (OSD) of the volume... as by definition, the "Through" mode passes the signal directly through the MRX without touching it. The only way to add the volume is to alter the signal coming in to include the OSD, which would as a result mean you are not passing the signal through unaltered.

If you set the MRX to be 1080p60 Auto, which allows the MRX to process the signal, you will get the OSD. When 1080p60 is in Through mode, you will not get the OSD. The flash you see when you press the setup button with the MRX in 1080p60 Through is actually the MRX changing from Through to Auto so that it can process the signal and add the Setup menu overlay. Once you turn the setup menu off, you will notice the same flash as the MRX rehandshakes and returns the MRX to Through mode.

One of the dead giveaways that Through mode is not working correctly on the 1080p24 mode is the fact that the OSD is working without the MRX having to switch to Auto mode. If 1080p24 were in true Through mode, the OSD would not be possible.
post #3724 of 16451
Does anyone has any update on upcoming FW?
post #3725 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD
Does anyone has any update on upcoming FW?
Not yet.
John
post #3726 of 16451
My 300 is in the house!!!!!
LL
post #3727 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Not yet.
John

Do you know what is holding it up?
post #3728 of 16451
Just got my MRX300 yesterday! So far I love it. Very easy to setup install firmware and run ARC. Graphs below. Audio setup is the following. Any feedback/suggestions is much appreciated.

Klipsch F-1's (Front L/R)
Klipsch C-1 (Center)
Klipsch S-1 (Surround)
Epik Legend Sub
LL
LL
LL
post #3729 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post


Do you know what is holding it up?

Afraid I don't.
John
post #3730 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failwhale314 View Post

Just got my MRX300 yesterday! So far I love it. Very easy to setup install firmware and run ARC. Graphs below. Audio setup is the following. Any feedback/suggestions is much appreciated.

Klipsch F-1's (Front L/R)
Klipsch C-1 (Center)
Klipsch S-1 (Surround)
Epik Legend Sub

They look pretty good to me, though both fronts (particularly the Left) look like they might be pushed up against a back wall or even in a corner. You might see if you can pull them out a couple of feet and see if you can get the low end to settle down.
post #3731 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

They look pretty good to me, though both fronts (particularly the Left) look like they might be pushed up against a back wall or even in a corner. You might see if you can pull them out a couple of feet and see if you can get the low end to settle down.

Good call! It's actually very close to a side and back wall. Due to where my couch is setup I tried to center the TV on the couch and it kind of pushed everything towards the end of the room. I could potentially shift it down to the right some along the wall. Pulling the speakers out from the wall would put them fairly close to me. The room is only 12 or 13 ft wide to begin with.
post #3732 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

In true Passthrough, there is no way to provide the On Screen Display (OSD) of the volume... as by definition, the "Through" mode passes the signal directly through the MRX without touching it. The only way to add the volume is to alter the signal coming in to include the OSD, which would as a result mean you are not passing the signal through unaltered.

If you set the MRX to be 1080p60 Auto, which allows the MRX to process the signal, you will get the OSD. When 1080p60 is in Through mode, you will not get the OSD. The flash you see when you press the setup button with the MRX in 1080p60 Through is actually the MRX changing from Through to Auto so that it can process the signal and add the Setup menu overlay. Once you turn the setup menu off, you will notice the same flash as the MRX rehandshakes and returns the MRX to Through mode.

One of the dead giveaways that Through mode is not working correctly on the 1080p24 mode is the fact that the OSD is working without the MRX having to switch to Auto mode. If 1080p24 were in true Through mode, the OSD would not be possible.


ahh, okay now i understand why i get the flash and in fact how its possible to see the overlay in 1080p24. i really don't mind the mrx changing resolutions to access the menu. i guess its better than nothing, although no volume setting kinda sucks. i listen with my eyes.
post #3733 of 16451
By looking at many measured responses so far, one thing came to me - ARC cannot really tell if the defficiences in the measured response are due to the speaker or room anomalies. It simply smooths them all. The result is that a 'signature curve' that some speakers come with (a midbass hump that makes speakers 'larger than they are', a pinched presence to curb agressive mixes, a slight bump at 1k to make them 'there') is also gone. In theory, ARC makes all the speakers and all the rooms sound alike. Not a problem unless you happen to like the very anomalies your speakers have i.e. you don't subscribe to the 'good speaker == flat speaker' approach.

I would like to *think* I prefer the truth, but I am not sure if what I perceive as 'flat' is really flat in ARC's ears. It seems that when we are faced with really flat response (modulo moderate room gain), we feel it is not subjectively flat (at least that way we think flat should be).

The only thing that makes me hopeful is that more expensive and accomplished speakers tend to sound similar to one another because they are closer to 'flat'. If you check B&W CM series, they have a pronounced dip in the presence region, but when you look at B&W 800 series, the dip is gone. I guess they expect cheaper speakers to run with cheaper front end and are trying to compensate for the most frequent defficiences (thin sounding amps). With the expectation that 800 series will have amplification to mach, there is no need for such shenanigans .
post #3734 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failwhale314 View Post

Good call! It's actually very close to a side and back wall. Due to where my couch is setup I tried to center the TV on the couch and it kind of pushed everything towards the end of the room. I could potentially shift it down to the right some along the wall. Pulling the speakers out from the wall would put them fairly close to me. The room is only 12 or 13 ft wide to begin with.

I suspect you may get some more senior opinions as well as mine... I've simply learned a few tricks from all the experts on here that have helped everyone else out! They are bound to have additional advice if they see something that I have missed!

Certianly see what you can do to at least back the speakers a little bit out of the corner, even if they have to stay flat to one wall. You maybe surpirsed that moving them away from the corner a couple of feet and forward even just 6 inches may settle some of the low end for you.
post #3735 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

If you like the colorings that your speakers and/or the room create, than perhaps ARC is not ideal for you.

However please NOTE, that the "hump" speakers make on the low end is probably similar to the natural room gain one often finds in most rooms and for that, ARC does introduce a "hump" of its own in the low end to create the same natural sound (instead of just a flat bass response)... in fact you can increase or decrease (even down to flat) the hump that ARC adds, as you like, by adjusting the "room gain" when you are first calibrating and configuring your ARC measurments and calculations. As for the 1k bump... that is not something ARC currently believe most people would naturally prefer to hear and so it does treat that are as flat, even if you speakers feel there should be a bump at 1k.

I don't actually think a speaker should have a bump in the midrange, but I did notice in the Failwhale314 post above that his Klipsch F-1's L/R have a bump between 500-800 Hz - I wonder if this is room-induced, or just how Klipsch likes to voice their speakers.
post #3736 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

ahh, okay now i understand why i get the flash and in fact how its possible to see the overlay in 1080p24. i really don't mind the mrx changing resolutions to access the menu. i guess its better than nothing, although no volume setting kinda sucks. i listen with my eyes.

Everyone has differnt opinions on what affect the MRX has when it "processes" the signal to add the OSD, including the volume. Also some equipment seems to have timing issues if the MRX processes it. Having said that, I find that the image I see with some of my souces are really not impacted by the MRX when it process the signal (At least my eyes don't see a difference that bothers me).

For all of your non 1080p24 sources (where currently you have no control of how they are processed) you might try setting your Video Profile to Auto, which will give you the OSD as well and see if you feel the image quality has degraded or been altered in a way that you don't like. If you don't have an issue with the results, then just leave all your sources (or select sources) set to Auto and you will have your OSD!

Currently all of my sources are Auto (I think) except my Blu-Ray where it is set for Through.

Can't hurt to give it a shot... even if you notice a slight something in Auto, perhpas for you, the OSD will out weight whatever slight change you are seeing as a result of the MRX's processing!
post #3737 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Afraid I don't.
John

John,

I really hope they give us a straight forward 2-channel headphone output (non-Dolby). The Dolby Headphone thing is interesting (I guess, in the same way the Dolby Volume is) for 5.1/7.1 sources but for just straightforward 2-channel music please just give us the Anthem DAC output - gain on a wire!

Fingers crossed.

Cheers.

Tony
post #3738 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

I suspect you may get some more senior opinions as well as mine... I've simply learned a few tricks from all the experts on here that have helped everyone else out! They are bound to have additional advice if they see something that I have missed!

Certianly see what you can do to at least back the speakers a little bit out of the corner, even if they have to stay flat to one wall. You maybe surpirsed that moving them away from the corner a couple of feet and forward even just 6 inches may settle some of the low end for you.

Appreciate your help and feedback Tigger! I'm fairly new to the world of room correction and what these graphs represent. Is there a newbies guide article on how to read these graphs/what to look for?
post #3739 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failwhale314 View Post

Appreciate your help and feedback Tigger! I'm fairly new to the world of room correction and what these graphs represent. Is there a newbies guide article on how to read these graphs/what to look for?

Ha! I wish! I would have loved that when I first got my MRX, actually still would! I have yet to see a nice, say 15 page, here is what everything in the ARC calibration software means and here are things to look for... The manual leaves a lot to be desired in this respect.

I can suggest a few places to start (short of reading all 125 pages of this thread).

1) Read the first couple of posts of the first page of this thread

2) Check out the first post on the "Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide" thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=678260. Not everything here is applicable to us, but there is a great section on ARC that I still need to read all of myself.

3) Read atleast 15-20 pages of this thread and look for charts... then check out the feedback... there has been a lot of help people have provided others in this thread and you can learn a lot by the feedback other have gotten... just skim and look for uploaded charts and start where ever you see one.

A couple of other things I learned that may interest you as well... or at least I wish I had known when I started out:

1) Some great info on setting up your MRX and how ARC is affected/will affect different settings in your MRX: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1797

2) Some info on HDMI, direct from the source: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/arc.aspx

3) And if your interested in the MDX-1 iPod Dock, here are a few details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2892

Hope some of that helps!

Maybe Jayray can add some of the above links to his post at the start of this thead... a link to the Anthem D2 thread would seem like a great addition to all the other info he already has in his post.
post #3740 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Ha! I wish! I would have loved that when I first got my MRX, actually still would! I have yet to see a nice, say 15 page, here is what everything in the ARC calibration software means and here are things to look for... The manual leaves a lot to be desired in this respect.

I can suggest a few places to start (short of reading all 125 pages of this thread).

1) Read the first couple of posts of the first page of this thread

2) Check out the first post on the "Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide" thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=678260. Not everything here is applicable to us, but there is a great section on ARC that I still need to read all of myself.

3) Read atleast 15-20 pages of this thread and look for charts... then check out the feedback... there has been a lot of help people have provided others in this thread and you can learn a lot by the feedback other have gotten... just skim and look for uploaded charts and start where ever you see one.

A couple of other things I learned that may interest you as well... or at least I wish I had known when I started out:

1) Some great info on setting up your MRX and how ARC is affected/will affect different settings in your MRX: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...l#post19929559

2) Some info on HDMI, direct from the source: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/arc.aspx

3) And if your interested in the MDX-1 iPod Dock, here are a few details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...d#post20181182

Hope some of that helps!

Maybe Jayray can add some of the above links to his post at the start of this thead... a link to the Anthem D2 thread would seem like a great addition to all the other info he already has in his post.


Some good links tigger. One question, has anyone ever used an SPL meter after ARC to level match? Good or bad idea?
post #3741 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

Some good links tigger. One question, has anyone ever used an SPL meter after ARC to level match? Good or bad idea?

Bad Idea. ARC uses a much wider range signal to level match than be done with an inexpensive meter.
post #3742 of 16451
The low pass x-over on my HGS-15 is set to OUT. The dial was at 80hz though, so I cranked it to 120 just to be safe and then re-measured. The subwoofer target is still 80. Here are the charts and targets as well as an optional subwoofer placement in my room. Not sure which is easier for ARC to deal with but these are my only two options for now. Thanks for taking a look.
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #3743 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Sig View Post

The low pass x-over on my HGS-15 is set to OUT. The dial was at 80hz though, so I cranked it to 120 just to be safe and then re-measured. The subwoofer target is still 80. Here are the charts and targets as well as an optional subwoofer placement in my room. Not sure which is easier for ARC to deal with but these are my only two options for now. Thanks for taking a look.

I'd listen to the alternate location, the calculated curve looks much better. However moving it around more may net you a very good sub response. The measured curve needs to move up in the 60-100 Hz region.
John
post #3744 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike645 View Post

Bad Idea. ARC uses a much wider range signal to level match than be done with an inexpensive meter.

+1

As Shrike645 said... not something you want to do if you are using ARC.
post #3745 of 16451
Just for kicks, here's a RoomEQ overlays graph with the Anthem, Emotiva UMC-1 and an HK AVR-635.

All the equipment is the same but the sub is in a slightly different position for the Anthem measurement.
LL
post #3746 of 16451
I'm converting a 2 channel rig (Gallo Reference Stradas) and JL112 sub into a pseudo ht set-up (3.1.....I just got a Reference Strada center). Two questions: I read through the manual and I don't see how you set-up an MRX receiver for just 3 speakers. Is this possible? I plan to buy the surrounds at some point in the future. Also, I have a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 that I'd like to connect to the MRX but I'm fairly certain the MRX digitizes everything. Does anyone else feed a MRX with a decent two channel source? I think I'd be better off using a usb-spdif converter (Halide Design Bridge would be my top choice at the moment) to feed my music to the MRX and avoiding DA AD DA conversion. All of my music is stored on a networked hard drive (Drobo) which is accessed by a Mac Mini feeding the DAC. The Halide Design Bridge would allow me to use iTunes/Pure Music. At the moment I'm biased towards the 500/700 simply because of the ease of firmware updates via the USB.
Thanks for any help/suggestions.
post #3747 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jky999 View Post

I'm converting a 2 channel rig (Gallo Reference Stradas) and JL112 sub into a pseudo ht set-up (3.1.....I just got a Reference Strada center). Two questions: I read through the manual and I don't see how you set-up an MRX receiver for just 3 speakers. Is this possible? I plan to buy the surrounds at some point in the future. Also, I have a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 that I'd like to connect to the MRX but I'm fairly certain the MRX digitizes everything. Does anyone else feed a MRX with a decent two channel source? I think I'd be better off using a usb-spdif converter (Halide Design Bridge would be my top choice at the moment) to feed my music to the MRX and avoiding DA AD DA conversion. All of my music is stored on a networked hard drive (Drobo) which is accessed by a Mac Mini feeding the DAC. The Halide Design Bridge would allow me to use iTunes/Pure Music. At the moment I'm biased towards the 500/700 simply because of the ease of firmware updates via the USB.
Thanks for any help/suggestions.

You may save some money by using Musical Fidelity V-Link instead of Halide Design Bridge - it is a genuine asynchronous USB to SPDIF convertor for around $169. Meanwhile, you are right about DACs - MRX is essentially a digital receiver. Pure analog inputs (e.g. phono, tuner) will be digitized (not a huge issue) but for devices with both digital and analog outputs, it is a shorter path to use straight digital out and skip DA/AD stages.
post #3748 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by dglozic View Post

By looking at many measured responses so far, one thing came to me - ARC cannot really tell if the defficiences in the measured response are due to the speaker or room anomalies. It simply smooths them all. The result is that a 'signature curve' that some speakers come with (a midbass hump that makes speakers 'larger than they are', a pinched presence to curb agressive mixes, a slight bump at 1k to make them 'there') is also gone. In theory, ARC makes all the speakers and all the rooms sound alike. Not a problem unless you happen to like the very anomalies your speakers have i.e. you don't subscribe to the 'good speaker == flat speaker' approach.

I would like to *think* I prefer the truth, but I am not sure if what I perceive as 'flat' is really flat in ARC's ears. It seems that when we are faced with really flat response (modulo moderate room gain), we feel it is not subjectively flat (at least that way we think flat should be).

Dr. Sean Olive on his blog has done some analysis which definitely shows that flat is not the preferred correction.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/1...uation-of.html


Quote:
A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the rom gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist.

This evaluation is dated in terms of the ARC software that was evaluated but the general conclusions are still viable.

Cheers.

Tony
post #3749 of 16451
Thanks. And the Anthem is limited to 24/96 input, right?
post #3750 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jky999 View Post

Thanks. And the Anthem is limited to 24/96 input, right?

Yes. The 500 and 700 main firmware is updated by a computer and USB/ serial adapter into the MRX. Only the multimedia part is updated by USB.
John
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