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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 162

post #4831 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

Sounds like you will just have to live with what you have since you will not be able to move your speakers. Hopefully, it will work out pretty good for you.

It's all about compromise. It should be fun nonetheless.
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post #4832 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok my sub is in a corner!! I had it set at 25 out of 100. my front lcr speakers are paradigm millinea 30 mounted on the wall. shows that 80 is what they should be crossed at. can I change the settings from 120? to 80?
I will pull the sub out of the corner a few inches. .do i need to rerun arc? or quick measure? looking forward to getting this dialed in with your help

Leave the cutoff, not crossover, at 120. This is what ARC found during the measurement and it is likely correct. The problem is your sub. It needs to be brought up to around 120 Hz. and that can only occur with postion changes. Sad but true.
John
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post #4833 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:32am
ok I pulled the sub out a bout 10 inches from corner, changed it from 80 to 120, here are the graphs
LL
LL
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post #4834 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok my sub is in a corner!! I had it set at 25 out of 100. my front lcr speakers are paradigm millinea 30 mounted on the wall. shows that 80 is what they should be crossed at. can I change the settings from 120? to 80?
I will pull the sub out of the corner a few inches. .do i need to rerun arc? or quick measure? looking forward to getting this dialed in with your help

Quick measure is run first, for one speaker or sub, at a time. This clears the settings you may have previously uploaded to your MRX, so when you find a good spot, do a new ARC measurement and then if it looks good, upload it.
John
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post #4835 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamcdn22 View Post

It's all about compromise. It should be fun nonetheless.

As long as you are having fun, then the compromises shouldn't be bad.
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post #4836 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok I pulled the sub out a bout 10 inches from corner, changed it from 80 to 120, here are the graphs

Did you re-run ARC? You have to re-run ARC if you moved your sub.
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post #4837 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:36am
arrgh iam getting overwhelmed lol. ok I pulled the sub out. should i leave the setting at 120? as it was 80 before, and now rerun arc? does this seem correct. thnx for help guys and where should the volume knob be on my sub when i re run, now it is at about 25% and can i just re run it for the sub? and then upload the new data?
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post #4838 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

If you move your sub, you will have to re-run ARC. You run Quick Measure to get an idea of what you might get when you re-run ARC. Also, you can change the sub cutoff, in the Target View, from 80 to 120, recalculate, and see if that works any better for you. You have to find some way to fill the hole between your sub and your speakers.

Isn't the phase adjustment on the subwoofer what you should use to fill in the gap between the sub and speakers?
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post #4839 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

Isn't the phase adjustment on the subwoofer what you should use to fill in the gap between the sub and speakers?

I think this problem really needs to be fixed by repositioning the sub. Since that can't be done, then Phase can be used; but, I don't think it's going to fix the issue.
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post #4840 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

arrgh iam getting overwhelmed lol. ok I pulled the sub out. should i leave the setting at 120? as it was 80 before, and now rerun arc? does this seem correct. thnx for help guys and where should the volume knob be on my sub when i re run, now it is at about 25% and can i just re run it for the sub? and then upload the new data?

If you run Quick Measure, does it look better? If it does, then re-run ARC. If it doesn't, then if you choose to leave your sub pulled out some, then re-run ARC. If you choose to push it back, I would still re-run ARC just in case you didn't put it back in the exact same spot as before.
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post #4841 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:52am
ok so i did pull out the sub from corner. turned the volume knob up on it almost to half way, should I now re run the whole arc process again? and this time leave the sub cutoff at 120 instead of 80?
i ill post pic of quick measure shortly
LL
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post #4842 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike645 View Post

Anthem Logic - Music does not use the center but it does sound good.

+1. Anthem Music sounds fantastic.
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post #4843 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok so i did pull out the sub from corner. turned the volume knob up on it almost to half way, should I now re run the whole arc process again? and this time leave the sub cutoff at 120 instead of 80?
i ill post pic of quick measure shortly

Yes, rerun the ARC process again. Don't worry about the cutoff for the sub. ARC will set that again once the ARC process completes.
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post #4844 of 14627
6/9/11 at 9:58am
ok I will do it again. I did post a pic of a quick measure a few post back on my sub. I will kick the kids cats out and run arc lol
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post #4845 of 14627
6/9/11 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok I will do it again. I did post a pic of a quick measure a few post back on my sub. I will kick the kids cats out and run arc lol

Are you talking about the cutoff on the back of the sub?
John
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post #4846 of 14627
6/9/11 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Are you talking about the cutoff on the back of the sub?
John

He is talking about the cutoff in the Target window.
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post #4847 of 14627
6/9/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok my sub is in a corner!! I had it set at 25 out of 100. my front lcr speakers are paradigm millinea 30 mounted on the wall. shows that 80 is what they should be crossed at. can I change the settings from 120? to 80?
I will pull it out of the corner a few inches. .do i need to rerun arc? or quick measure? looking forward to getting this dialed in with your help

Ok, I was eating... seems I forgot to hit Post...

For your fronts, you could try pushing them to probably 100, however ARC really does a good job with setting these, so I would leave them where ARC put them (120 I think)... base on how quickly they drop I'm not sure moving the cutogg lower will gain you much.

As for the sub, if you could get it out a couple of feet... I think that would make a big difference. And if you were running it "25 out 100" I would see what more like 50 to 60 out 100 looks like.

And yes you will need to re-run ARC for both the volume change and/or any moving of the sub.

EDIT: I see you posted that you upped the volume on the sub to 50, it looks much better (the volume that is... you are still experiencing a LOT of boundary gain).
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post #4848 of 14627
6/9/11 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok so i did pull out the sub from corner. turned the volume knob up on it almost to half way, should I now re run the whole arc process again? and this time leave the sub cutoff at 120 instead of 80?
i ill post pic of quick measure shortly

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

Yes, rerun the ARC process again. Don't worry about the cutoff for the sub. ARC will set that again once the ARC process completes.

+1, for now let ARC set the cutoffs where it thinks they should be and post up the new graphs and targets window
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post #4849 of 14627
6/9/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Are you talking about the cutoff on the back of the sub?
John

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

He is talking about the cutoff in the Target window.

Just as a quick Sanity Check... My assumption is with Eric-t... but lets be sure we are all talking about the cutoffs listed in the target window

That having been said, if there is a Crossover or frequency knob on the back of the sub, we want to make sure it is set as high as possible... 180 or something like that. If there is an option to bypass or disable the Crossover on the speaker, that is the best option.

EDIT: I quickly pulled up your subs manual... it looks like you can set the crossover at 150 Hz or "Bypass". Enabling the Bypass is the best option if available
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post #4850 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:03am
ok here is second run. sub out about 12 inches from corner, volume at about 45%, what do you think now, also should I maybe run my paradigm perfect bass kit first and then arc? if yes. after i run pbk on my sub do i need to rerun all of arc, or can i just do it for the sub and upload that? sorry for all the questions, but comming from audyssey for so many years its hard to change lol I know that audyssey had my front speakers at 80
I see after running arc it set my sub back at 80, should i set it at 120?
LL
LL
LL
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post #4851 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok here is second run. sub out about 12 inches from corner, volume at about 45%, what do you think now, also should I maybe run my paradigm perfect bass kit first and then arc? if yes. after i run pbk on my sub do i need to rerun all of arc, or can i just do it for the sub and upload that? sorry for all the questions, but comming from audyssey for so many years its hard to change lol I know that audyssey had my front speakers at 80
I see after running arc it set my sub back at 80, should i set it at 120?

Ahh! New information!

If you are using the optional "Perfect bass kit", run PBK first. (You would have wanted to re-run it anyways once you moved the speaker).

After you have run PBK, than run ARC again.

PBK will hopefully do some of the "heavy lifting" on the sub and than ARC will pick up what it has done and further refine it.

If you can get your sub any further out... I know I'm pushing here... I really woudl like to see the high peaks come down and that is only likely to happen once the sub is a bit farther away from your walls... if you want it not to come to far out in the room, any chance you can slide it closer to the middle of the front wall?

So it is a 1-2 feet out from front wall and perhaps 3-4 feet from the side wall?

For now, leave the ARC cutoff where ever ARC sets it.

Please make sure you have your subs crossover set as high as possible (150 Hz I think, from your manual) or that "Bypass" is enabled, if possible. The Bypass option is the ideal if that is available.
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post #4852 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:20am
ok i will run my pbk, first. and then re run all of arc correct? nope sub is actually on back wall corner. it is about 2 inches from either wall. wish I had it upfront but did not sit well with wife. and sub is set to bypass.. I will get started on al this and post back new results, a million thanx guys!
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post #4853 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post


Ahh! New information!

If you are using the optional "Perfect bass kit", run PBK first. (You would have wanted to re-run it anyways once you moved the speaker).

After you have run PBK, than run ARC again.

PBK will hopefully do some of the "heavy lifting" on the sub and than ARC will pick up what it has done and further refine it.

If you can get your sub any further out... I know I'm pushing here... I really woudl like to see the high peaks come down and that is only likely to happen once the sub is a bit farther away from your walls... if you want it not to come to far out in the room, any chance you can slide it closer to the middle of the front wall?

So it is a 1-2 feet out from front wall and perhaps 3-4 feet from the side wall?

For now, leave the ARC cutoff where ever ARC sets it.

Please make sure you have your subs crossover set as high as possible (150 Hz I think, from your manual) or that "Bypass" is enabled, if possible. The Bypass option is the ideal if that is available.

From running PBK with my Sub 25, I can tell you it won't make a lot of diff., moving it was what made the measured curve rise and then PBK smoothed that out. Location, location, location
John
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post #4854 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:41am
If you've only got one sub, setting up PBK on the sub won't make much difference as PBK is simply the subwoofer only portion of ARC. I.e., ARC alone will do the same thing (PLUS adjusting the main speakers).

If you have more than one sub, running PBK on EACH of them first (one sub powered at a time) and then running ARC setup on top of those results, could give you a better result.

Also, if you need excessive amounts of bass correction, running PBK on one sub and ARC on top of that MIGHT help. But keep in mind that in particular sending excessive boosts to a sub to try to fill in a cancellation null at some frequency 'taint good either for the sub amp or its cone motor.

As JAYRAY says, sub location experiments are the key to sub nirvana.
--Bob
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post #4855 of 14627
6/9/11 at 11:51am
so the general opinion is dont run it as it wont help?? I havent yet just starting to when i read this.
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post #4856 of 14627
6/9/11 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If you've only got one sub, setting up PBK on the sub won't make much difference as PBK is simply the subwoofer only portion of ARC. I.e., ARC alone will do the same thing (PLUS adjusting the main speakers).

If you have more than one sub, running PBK on EACH of them first (one sub powered at a time) and then running ARC setup on top of those results, could give you a better result.

Also, if you need excessive amounts of bass correction, running PBK on one sub and ARC on top of that MIGHT help. But keep in mind that in particular sending excessive boosts to a sub to try to fill in a cancellation null at some frequency 'taint good either for the sub amp or its cone motor.

As JAYRAY says, sub location experiments are the key to sub nirvana.
--Bob

It's like chicken soup, may not help but it won't hurt
John
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post #4857 of 14627
6/9/11 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV DRAGON View Post

ok i will run my pbk, first. and then re run all of arc correct? nope sub is actually on back wall corner. it is about 2 inches from either wall. wish I had it upfront but did not sit well with wife. and sub is set to bypass.. I will get started on al this and post back new results, a million thanx guys!

Same concept applys with the back wall

If you can move it out from the back wall... and more towards the center... that should help. I suspect that your wife doesn't want it in the middle of the floor... bu perhaps she can live with something like 1 foot out from back wall and 3 feet out from side wall?

Inches can make a difference, but with your sub, I think feet are initially needed

Basically your corner is acting as two massive reflecting surfaces (rear wall and side wall) and they are causing a lot of bass gain in a select frequency range. By reducing the interaction of the those two reflections, we are hoping to get a flatter sub curve. Currently part of your sub is far to loud (almost 90 db) and part is to quite (70 db). The 90db is caused by the subs location. The 70 is location and probably volume level.

Reducing a peak is easier typically for most Room Correction tools (PBK and ARC) than filling a dip. Hence we are trying to accomplish three things...

1) produce a flatter response by repositioning the sub to reduce the affects of the boundary gain created by being too close to your walls.

2) Raise the Level of sub with the subs volume knob to get the dips higher so that the room correction doesn't have to work as hard at filling a hole.

3) Allow Room Correction to fix what we cannot correct with 1 and 2.

The closer you get #1 & #2 to ideal, the less #3 has to do. Typically ARC alone should be able to do a nice job on its own (you wouldn't even need PBK). However as we are looking at extreems here and the combined work of both may help. PBK may be able to reduce your boundary gain and boost your dips some (lets say from 90 to 85 and from 70 to 75)... than ARC will pick up where it left off and continue to push things closer to flat.

Of course having this much work done by Room Correction is not ideal. Hence we are focusing on getting things as close as we can with #1 & #2 above first.

See the question in Jayrays FAQ "Q: Should any Sub EQ be run in addition to running ARC?" for Nick at Anthems thoughts one exactly the issue you are experiencing:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...58&postcount=2


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

From running PBK with my Sub 25, I can tell you it won't make a lot of diff., moving it was what made the measured curve rise and then PBK smoothed that out. Location, location, location
John

+1, you may have to take out the garbage a few extra times this week... but see if you can move the sub around a bit... it is the best option here
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post #4858 of 14627
6/9/11 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post


Same concept applys with the back wall

If you can move it out from the back wall... and more towards the center... that should help. I suspect that your wife doesn't want it in the middle of the floor... bu perhaps she can live with something like 1 foot out from back wall and 3 feet out from side wall?

Inches can make a difference, but with your sub, I think feet are initially needed

Basically your corner is acting as two massive reflecting surfaces (rear wall and side wall) and they are causing a lot of bass gain in a select frequency range. By reducing the interaction of the those two reflections, we are hoping to get a flatter sub curve. Currently part of your sub is far to loud (almost 90 db) and part is to quite (70 db). The 90db is caused by the subs location. The 70 is location and probably volume level.

Reducing a peak is easier typically for most Room Correction tools (PBK and ARC) than filling a dip. Hence we are trying to accomplish three things...

1) produce a flatter response by repositioning the sub to reduce the affects of the boundary gain created by being to close too your walls.

2) Raise the Level of sub with the subs volume knob to get the dips higher so that the room correction doesn't have to work as hard at filling a hole.

3) Allow Room Correction to fix what we cannot correct with 1 and 2.

The closer you get #1 & #2 to ideal, the less #3 has to do. Typically ARC alone should be able to do a nice job on its own (you wouldn't even need PBK). However as we are looking at extreems The combined work of both may help. PBK may be able to reduce your boundary gain and boost your dips some (lets say from 90 to 85 and from 70 to 75)... than ARC will pick up where it left off and continue to push things closer to flat.

Of course having this much work done by Room Correction is not ideal. Hence we are focusing on getting things as close as we can with #1 & #2 above first.

See the question in Jayrays FAQ "Q: Should any Sub EQ be run in addition to running ARC?" for Nick at Anthems thoughts one exactly the issue you are experiencing:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...58&postcount=2

+1, you may have to take out the garbage a few extra times this week... but see if you can move the sub around a bit... it is the best option here

Well worth taking out the garbage and anything else he can think of for good LFE
John
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post #4859 of 14627
6/9/11 at 12:11pm
ALL TRUE LOL and just cause i had it all out I ran pbk, I will now run arc nd post back some results.
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post #4860 of 14627
6/9/11 at 12:44pm
ok hopefully third time is the charm, this is with pbk on sub, I see now arc set my sub at 120 and not 80, opinions??
seems like I dont have the amount of bass I would like to have?
LL
LL
LL
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