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Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 191

post #5701 of 16451
I'm getting ready to do some ARC tweaking, hopefully this weekend. The sub is my main concern. Granted, it is far from audiophile quality, but it's all I have right now. It's an old(er) Yamaha HTIB sub. If I remember from looking at the manual it's response is 50-150. I'll be moving the mains a bit, and hopefully the sub a bit. I'm really limited with room placement. Of course I'll be setting the high pass to max, and volume to about half.
My main question, what should I set my Auto On feature to? Low, High, or Off?
I've been extremely pleased with what ARC has done to my room. I'm just trying to get more out of my sub (if that's possible). As always, many thanks.
-Peter
post #5702 of 16451
I have following questions.

I am setting up mrx 700. I got keyspan adapter. Do I need to do ARC and level calibration or just ARC is enough?

Also, I am using only 5.1 now. In speaker configutation there is Aux Output. Manual says to set to "zone 2". I am not using zone 2. What is the meaning of it?


I am using projector. I don't want to turn on it for music. I will have one more display. Do you recommend any HDMI splitter? Do I loose any quality? Otherwise, I will use component out.
post #5703 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post


The music chart shows that my sub is at approximately 85db for the full range from 20Hz to the crossover point at 60Hz. Bass is great.

I also set up a separate curve for movies and used a 80Hz crossover point.

I'm not sure why you feel my bass is lacking? My velodyne HGS12 is a very highly regarded sub and the placement has been carefully chosen.

Having said that, I will certainly run ARC again after adding the acoustic room treatments.

Unfortunately, this will need to wait. I need to get back to work and packing.

It doesn't matter how good your sub is, if it's in a bad spot it will not sound good. Again it is hard to know what good sound is until you hear it. No one is born knowing what good bass is, just look at all the Civic driving guys who think their boom boxes sound great
John
post #5704 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

It doesn't matter how good your sub is, if it's in a bad spot it will not sound good. Again it is hard to know what good sound is until you hear it. No one is born knowing what good bass is, just look at all the Civic driving guys who think their boom boxes sound great
John

Also, the reverse is true. A sub with limited LF capability like the one described can gain significantly by being placed in a corner to get the additional oomph that the standing waves can give it. The beauty of this is it's free ;-)

Cheers.

Tony
post #5705 of 16451
Re the discussion above about not hearing improvement from ARC: A common reason for this is some sort of simple setup error such as not even having ARC turned ON for the particular Source you are listening to. It happens.

Even folks with acoustically good rooms report hearing improvement from ARC due to more sophisticated treatment of the transition through the crossovers and better handling of both the high and low end of the subwoofer.

So if you are not hearing ANY improvement, odds are something screwy is going on in your set up or in your method of comparison.
--Bob
post #5706 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

It doesn't matter how good your sub is, if it's in a bad spot it will not sound good. Again it is hard to know what good sound is until you hear it. No one is born knowing what good bass is, just look at all the Civic driving guys who think their boom boxes sound great
John

With due respect, I have over 30 years in hi-fi going back to Mac tube amps, Rega turntables, and Rel subs. I also sold equipment retail and custom. I know what good bass sounds like. Please don't be so condescending just because someone has different opinions.
post #5707 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post

With due respect, I have over 30 years in hi-fi going back to Mac tube amps, Rega turntables, and Rel subs. I also sold equipment retail and custom. I know what good bass sounds like. Please don't be so condescending just because someone has different opinions.

I wan't being condescending Your charts indicate you have some bloated LFE and so far you've told us you have a good sub. I have a sub 25 and until I moved it, the sound was not consistent with it's specs. We've spent a lot of time trying to help you and it doesn't seem you are following our good advice with our long time experience dealing with ARC. I guess you'll figure it out yourself.
John
post #5708 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Even folks with acoustically good rooms report hearing improvement from ARC due to more sophisticated treatment of the transition through the crossovers and better handling of both the high and low end of the subwoofer.

So if you are not hearing ANY improvement, odds are something screwy is going on in your set up or in your method of comparison.
--Bob
The challenge in evaluating ARC on the Anthem receivers is that the benefit of proper speaker and subwoofer placement, selected crossover, and level matching is always available whether ARC is on or off. IMO this represents 90% of the benefit. ARC can, to a certain extent, help smooth curves with electronic correction, however, this benefit is very subtle on most music in my room. On some music I hear no difference. YMMV.
post #5709 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post
I wan't being condescending Your charts indicate you have some bloated LFE and so far you've told us you have a good sub. I have a sub 25 and until I moved it, the sound was not consistent with it's specs. We've spent a lot of time trying to help you and it doesn't seem you are following our good advice with our long time experience dealing with ARC. I guess you'll figure it out yourself.
John
Now I think you are being pedantic.

I don't think a small 5db bump in measured bass is "bloated" especially since ARC smoothed this out.
post #5710 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post
The challenge in evaluating ARC on the Anthem receivers is that the benefit of proper speaker and subwoofer placement, selected crossover, and level matching is always available whether ARC is on or off. IMO this represents 90% of the benefit. ARC can, to a certain extent, help smooth curves with electronic correction, however, this benefit is very subtle on most music in my room. On some music I hear no difference. YMMV.
Hi,

You are absolutely correct. Remember an important part of ARC is a sound field correcting for 5 or more positions. If you are listening from the "sweet spot"you may not hear a lot of benefits at all because the Quick Measure etc. helped you fine tune that spot. Move three feet to the left and see if the bass response is the same. It will not be. ARC will try and smooth it as best it can for the sound field listening area which doesn't mean everyone gets great bass, just that they get close to the same bass so that there aren't huge deviations between one listening position and another.

With a properly positioned and well-engineered speaker system in a single listening spot there may not be a lot of adjustments required (e.g. toed in speakers, pointed directly at the listening spot, not in a crest or peak of a standing wave).

Cheers.

Tony
post #5711 of 16451
Is there any way to adjust the timeout for the audio menu (the one that let's you select between stereo, all ch stereo, Dolby, etc)? It's really annoying when it exits audio mode so quickly when I'm evaluating different listening modes, which I frequently do. The timeout setting in the setup menu doesn't have any effect on this.

I have mrx300
Thx
post #5712 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcms6 View Post
Is there any way to adjust the timeout for the audio menu (the one that let's you select between stereo, all ch stereo, Dolby, etc)? It's really annoying when it exits audio mode so quickly when I'm evaluating different listening modes, which I frequently do. The timeout setting in the setup menu doesn't have any effect on this.

I have mrx300
Thx
Have you tried to make the changes from the Listening Modes Preset in the Source Setup page of the setup menu... AFAIK, there is no timeout doing it that way....
post #5713 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post
With due respect, I have over 30 years in hi-fi going back to Mac tube amps, Rega turntables, and Rel subs. I also sold equipment retail and custom. I know what good bass sounds like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post
I don't think a small 5db bump in measured bass is "bloated" especially since ARC smoothed this out.
I don't think anyone thinks 5db at 45-55Hz is a "small".....

I just don't know how that is the case with that peak, that's all..

PS... Don't you have a vacation to go on?
post #5714 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post
The challenge in evaluating ARC on the Anthem receivers is that the benefit of proper speaker and subwoofer placement, selected crossover, and level matching is always available whether ARC is on or off. IMO this represents 90% of the benefit. ARC can, to a certain extent, help smooth curves with electronic correction, however, this benefit is very subtle on most music in my room. On some music I hear no difference. YMMV.
My only point is that your reaction is unusual.

There are plenty of folks over in the D2v thread applying ARC in acoustically clean rooms with well place speakers, and I don't believe I can recall a single case of any of them saying they didn't think ARC made a noticeable improvement once due care was taken to tweak up the Targets properly -- and assuming, of course, no gross speaker problems.

Given that track record, my recommendation would be you take a step back and approach the project again, beginning with the basics, and incorporating the advice that has been posted here. Personally, I think it's worth the effort, even if you don't find any silly mistakes to correct.
--Bob
post #5715 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Have you tried to make the changes from the Listening Modes Preset in the Source Setup page of the setup menu... AFAIK, there is no timeout doing it that way....
No I didn't try it that way, thanks for the tip. It's kind of a work-around though, as the setup menu changes the default behavior (if I remember correctly), which I don't want to do, so after setting my temporary listening mode I have to remember to set it back.

If the Anthem folks are listening, please add the ability adjust timeout delay for the audio menu in a future firmware update.

Thx
post #5716 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
PS... Don't you have a vacation to go on?
Leaving tomorrow.

Going to enjoy a movie with the kids tonight in our theater room.
post #5717 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukumar View Post
I have following questions.

I am setting up mrx 700. I got keyspan adapter. Do I need to do ARC and level calibration or just ARC is enough?

Also, I am using only 5.1 now. In speaker configutation there is Aux Output. Manual says to set to "zone 2". I am not using zone 2. What is the meaning of it?


I am using projector. I don't want to turn on it for music. I will have one more display. Do you recommend any HDMI splitter? Do I loose any quality? Otherwise, I will use component out.
Think your post almost got lost in the mix

ARC will do your level calibration for you. No need to do both (in fact ARC will blow away any level calibration you do!) The only exception would be your Sub to make sure the subs volume is set at a good volume level before you run ARC, but the current manual test tone for the sub is miss calibrated and will therefore be less than helpful. As such you are better off running ARC once, checking the levels it set for your sub (In the MRX Speaker Levels Menu) and turning the subs volume up if ARC set your subs level to more than +3 or down if it set the subs level to more than -3. You would of course need to run ARC again after you adjusted the subs volume.

NOTE: You will need to set your speaker distance manualy, regardless of weather you run ARC. This can be done anytime (before or after) you run ARC without needing to rerun ARC.

As for the 5.1, set the MRX to use Zone 2, even if you have no plans to use Zone 2. This simply lets the MRX know that it should not try to provide 7.1 sound with your 5.1 speaker configuration.

Before you get started, check out the second post of this thread, the "FAQ" post. It has great information that may help answer lots of your questions!

As for the projector suggestions, I'm going to let someone who has played more in this area provide some feedback.
post #5718 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post

Now I think you are being pedantic.

I don't think a small 5db bump in measured bass is "bloated" especially since ARC smoothed this out.

Last try, here goes. You have a 10 dB dip at 100Hz which is the "kick drum" thumping region. This isn't bloated, it's missing! That is why I suggested you move it to raise the red measured line in that region. It should be flat from 100-20Hz to get the full benefit of LFE in movies and if you use a sub for music. I am using your graph from an earlier post. I don't know if you have moved your sub and done a remeasurement since that graph was posted. Hope this helps.
John
post #5719 of 16451
After only having this happen once before (a couple days ago), I had several instances of audio loss today on my MRX 700. Sometimes there was a 0.5 second burst of static, sometimes it just died. Happened on multiple sources (CATV/Blu-ray). The first few times either a power cycle or changing sources seemed to fix it. Once, switching to Tuner fixed it. Other times Tuner and even Level Calibration tones did not produce any sound. The final time I had to do a factory reset.

Before factory reset, I saved user settings and restored them after. Do I need to re-upload ARC settings?

P.S. Still running 50.02 firmware. Might try 50.04, I suppose, but I was waiting for the new firmware.
post #5720 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by favorini View Post

After only having this happen once before (a couple days ago), I had several instances of audio loss today on my MRX 700. Sometimes there was a 0.5 second burst of static, sometimes it just died. Happened on multiple sources (CATV/Blu-ray). The first few times either a power cycle or changing sources seemed to fix it. Once, switching to Tuner fixed it. Other times Tuner and even Level Calibration tones did not produce any sound. The final time I had to do a factory reset.

Before factory reset, I saved user settings and restored them after. Do I need to re-upload ARC settings?

P.S. Still running 50.02 firmware. Might try 50.04, I suppose, but I was waiting for the new firmware.

You don't have to but just to be sure do an upload of the latest file you have. Where have you been
John
post #5721 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger! View Post

Think your post almost got lost in the mix

ARC will do your level calibration for you. No need to do both (in fact ARC will blow away any level calibration you do!) The only exception would be your Sub to make sure the subs volume is set at a good volume level before you run ARC, but the current manual test tone for the sub is miss calibrated and will therefore be less than helpful. As such you are better off running ARC once, checking the levels it set for your sub (In the MRX Speaker Levels Menu) and turning the subs volume up if ARC set your subs level to more than +3 or down if it set the subs level to more than -3. You would of course need to run ARC again after you adjusted the subs volume.

NOTE: You will need to set your speaker distance manualy, regardless of weather you run ARC. This can be done anytime (before or after) you run ARC without needing to rerun ARC.

As for the 5.1, set the MRX to use Zone 2, even if you have no plans to use Zone 2. This simply lets the MRX know that it should not try to provide 7.1 sound with your 5.1 speaker configuration.

Before you get started, check out the second post of this thread, the "FAQ" post. It has great information that may help answer lots of your questions!

As for the projector suggestions, I'm going to let someone who has played more in this area provide some feedback.

Thanks for the reply. I printed the posts that you wrote and going through them. Somebody told me to set sub 15 level control to half and volume/gain control to 15. I opened the boxes and did not even look at what knobs are there. Unfortunately, I am still at office and busy with work.

I will try this weekend. Appreciate all your help.
post #5722 of 16451
Thanks, John. That's what I thought. As for where I've been, mostly lurking and enjoying my system. You guys are too fast with the good answers, so I haven't chimed in much. Plus, there's a lot of fun to be had during the summer months down here.
post #5723 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Last try, here goes. You have a 10 dB dip at 100Hz which is the "kick drum" thumping region. This isn't bloated, it's missing! That is why I suggested you move it to raise the red measured line in that region. It should be flat from 100-20Hz to get the full benefit of LFE in movies and if you use a sub for music. I am using your graph from an earlier post. I don't know if you have moved your sub and done a remeasurement since that graph was posted. Hope this helps.
John



The 10db dip at 100Hz is only in the sub because the crossover point is set to 60Hz for music. My Left and Right are full range speakers and flat from 100 to 20K. Changing the crossover to 80 or 100 on the sub for movies flattens that out.
post #5724 of 16451
Is anybody using two video outs from MRX 700. If I use hdmi splitter do I lloose any quality?

If I loose quality, I want to use one hdmi out and one component out, assuming the device has component out.

I will connect projector and TV and would like to use tv for music. I was told that I can only connect one at a time. It is pain and not good to disconnect hdmi so many times. Appreciate for any help.
post #5725 of 16451
Hey guy just wanting to get some opinions i'm running MRX 500 with Paradigm millenias 200 with matching center and rears right now and thinking of getting some gallo reference 3.0

honest opinions welcome!!
post #5726 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post


The 10db dip at 100Hz is only in the sub because the crossover point is set to 60Hz for music. My Left and Right are full range speakers and flat from 100 to 20K. Changing the crossover to 80 or 100 on the sub for movies flattens that out.

1. The charts don't show crossover interaction.

2. While there may be crossover issues, the sub is still fed a discrete LFE channel with no crossover.

3. B & W speakers are anything but flat. Both your charts, and any measurements of them I've ever seen, show that... You might like their "signature" sound, but I don't think anyone can consider them flat.
post #5727 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

1. The charts don't show crossover interaction.

2. While there may be crossover issues, the sub is still fed a discrete LFE channel with no crossover.

3. B & W speakers are anything but flat. Both your charts, and any measurements of them I've ever seen, show that... You might like their "signature" sound, but I don't think anyone can consider them flat.

Last post of mine for a few weeks...

Jayray initially said my bass was "bloated." A follow-up email said my bass "isn't bloated, its missing."

His last note referenced a 10db dip at 100Hz in my sub. Well, the crossover is set to 60Hz so I'm not asking my sub to play 100Hz. My main L and R speakers are more than capable of playing 100Hz as the charts indicate. In regards to movies please note that my separate crossover is set to 80Hz, and as you know there is little LFE material in the .1 channel past 80Hz.

My B&W speakers my not be ruler flat (uncorrected) for the audio purists, however, there is certainly nothing that indicates I am missing bass for music. Several people on this forum said my charts looks pretty good.

A appreciate all the help and comments. I'm learning all the time and enjoying my new MRX-500. Looking forward to more tweaking when I get back from vacation.
post #5728 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post

His last note referenced a 10db dip at 100Hz in my sub. Well, the crossover is set to 60Hz so I'm not asking my sub to play 100Hz. My main L and R speakers are more than capable of playing 100Hz as the charts indicate. In regards to movies please note that my separate crossover is set to 80Hz, and as you know there is little LFE material in the .1 channel past 80Hz.

What crossover are you talking about? You seem to be confused as to the difference between a crossover and a filter.

The charts, as I said, don't take the crossover for the mains into account.

And there is LFE material from 80 to 120. It is erroneous, in my opinion, to filter the sub below 120.
post #5729 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by favorini View Post

Thanks, John. That's what I thought. As for where I've been, mostly lurking and enjoying my system. You guys are too fast with the good answers, so I haven't chimed in much. Plus, there's a lot of fun to be had during the summer months down here.

Well it's good you dropped in.
John
post #5730 of 16451
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

What crossover are you talking about? You seem to be confused as to the difference between a crossover and a filter.

The charts, as I said, don't take the crossover for the mains into account.

And there is LFE material from 80 to 120. It is erroneous, in my opinion, to filter the sub below 120.

+1
This is probably why ARC sets just about every excellent sub measurement I have seen at 120 Hz. Marc, when you did U571, was there LFE b/t 80 and 120 Hz?
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