Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide - Page 251

I have experienced a puzzling anomaly in my latest ARC calibration. I should first explain that I do not own a laptop computer, nor am I particularly computer savvy. My home computer is a Mac located in another room on another floor of my home. The store from whom I purchased my MRX 700 first ran ARC in my room about a year ago. I asked them to come back and install the new firmware and run ARC again a few days ago.

My sub level had been set at about 3 o'clock and ARC had previously boosted it's gain +5 db. I increased the level prior to their calibration to about 4 o'clock in the hope that ARC might then set it's gain closer to 0. I've read here that it's best to keep this within approximately 3 db so ARC's resources aren't wasted on a large gain boost or cut. Here is the strange part. ARC has now set the sub gain to +10 db. I am puzzled by this. The only thing that I can think of which might explain this discrepancy would be if the gentleman who came out didn't upload the latest version of ARC and instead used the version on my supplied cd. Otherwise I haven't a clue.

I do not have a copy of the curves so I cannot post them here. Does anyone know if this sub level anomaly could be due to using the original version of the ARC software?

I should also add that the original ARC calibration was done with the second iteration of the firmware, not the first.

ARC doesn't use resources to boost or reduce trim levels. ARC measures the volume and sets the trim level to balance the output from each set of speakers. ARC will boost or cut frequency ranges for each speaker to provide it's room correction calculations. Trim levels rarely have have an effect on the room correction unless they are vastly different usually when the sub is too loud and ARC sets trims to cut the sub by a large number and boost the other speakers to compensate leading to a double digit db difference. We say to get them all within the +-3db more more to be anal and to get things close to zero more than any correction this is going to accomplish. There is a +-12db limit to the trim levels the receivers or processors can apply.

I don't know why your sub would now be set to add more trim than your first measurement after turning up it's volume control.

For some of us, that is normal.

Initially I was thinking of getting Paradigm CC-690 as the center channel.
After reading AVS forum and AV magazines I learned that in my situation(false wall, Acoustically transparent screen) going with same speakers for LCR was a no brainer.

Nice to know that I have joined such elite company.

Hi Hehateme,

I would expect your levels not to be 0, ARC sets these as part of the configuration upload. The only reason they are 0 in my screenshot is that I took it from the Users Manual Not typical at all unless your MRX has not been configured!

My guess is that you will have a very large negative sub number (-6 or greater). If this is the case we want to turn the level down on your sub. If the number is clsoer to 0 (-3 to 3) than no need to adjust your sub level!

As for posting, no need to bother with the digital camera, we trust you Just type them into your post and let us know they are there.

As for moving the speakers, as I said before, no need to worry, they are fine where they are. If they can come forward a little, even a few inches may change things in a positive way.

As for the sub, is it in the same plane as the other front speakers? If so, then most likely the phase should be set at 0. If it is somewhere else in the room, then you will have to try it to find the best setting.

Post your new Graphs, Targets and Speaker Levels once you get done playing with round 2!

It looks like you have one really nice setup!

Any chance the sub volume used to be higher but got turned down... say by someone cleaning and dusting... so when you turned it up, you were actually only bring it back close to where it started?

Or did the installer maybe change it on you?

Also, just double check that you were turning it clockwise to increase the volume (I'm sure you were). Lastly, did anything in your room change? Add a couple of nice couches to your room?

Unfortunately the answer to all your questions is no. Nothing changed in the room and the volume control on the sub was turned to a louder setting from where it had been set before. I wish it were that straight forward though.

The CC690 is a great center channel, and allows better horizontal dispersion than a studio 100 on it's side. I have the same speakers and with ARC they perform beautifully. My sub 25 finishes this off and does it ever
John

I'm obviously not a draftsman. :-)

Here's a drawing of the listening room. note the slope of the ceiling diagonally along the dotted line from a height of 8 ft to ~16ft and the open areas going into other rooms.

If i square the room and average the ceiling at 12ft i come up with 4500 cubic feet. do i need to account for the open areas going into the adjoining rooms?

Typically listen to blur-ray movies and music (-25) and TV (-35).

Funds? $1500? I'd like to get the best bang for the buck. Thanks for help on this odd shaped challenge.

Open areas do make it harder to pressurize the room. You are trying to pressurize the volume above with open areas. This takes power and large drivers, say around 15" and with power around 1500 and higher. Not sure what sub would fit into this price range.
John

Guess I should budget higher. :-)

Hate to make you spend more but once that occurred to me I stopped chasing my tail
John

I was ignorant as to what it would take to get a properly working sub for my application. Hence more budget. :-)

Before you do that see if you can move the subwoofer around in relation to the main seating area. You may be able to save yourself some money.

If you want to gain a better technical understanding of how to get better bass H/W a link to Dr. Floyd Toole's essay on Getting the Bass Right.

Hope this helps. Cheers.

Tony

Thanks. I don't currently have a subwoofer and am on a quest for my first one. I've been devouring all the articles I can on the subject so I'll add this.

So, after having purchased my MRX300 nine months ago, I'm going to endeavor to install it. I have outboard amps for the mains, surrounds, and subs. It's only powering the heights and backs.

I will be doing a major subwoofer upgrade also. I will be using the Behringer DCX2496 to manage the subs. Subs consist of a DTS-10 for 15-50hz, and then three 18's for 30-80/100 hz. My mains have dual 15" drivers that easily (-3dB) extend to 40hz (JBL 4622n). I'll admit I'm intimidated by the thought of integrating all this. Do I run ARC first, then set the DCX and re-run ARC? Or do I set up the DCX then run ARC. I have any Omni-mic for measurement purposes, too. Just to complete the picture, the sealed room (3k cu. ft.) is heavily treated (ala Erskine type). Surrounds are JBL Control 28, front heights are JBL 8330 and the backs are generic 8" in-walls.

What advice can you offer in setting up the MRX 300? My head hurts just thinking about it.

1) Do all Sub management setup BEFORE you run ARC. ARC will treat all of your subs as a single sub and will polish off any rough edges left by your main management. Make sure all subs are leveled and phase adjusted before you run ARC.

2) You state you have rear speakers and height speakers. Do you have a speaker switch? I assume you know the MRX 300-700 only support one or the other, not both.

Assuming the levels at your listening position for the rear speakers and the height speakers are the same and the speakers are of equal distance to your listening position... and you have some sort of switch to change between the two speakers... you may be able to configure your Movie profile with the rear speakers and the Music profile to use the height speakers. To do this, when you run ARC you need to tell it you want to do two sets of measurements, one for Movies and one for Music when you first start your ARC calibration run... then you would want to change your speaker switch between the two runs.

Currently I don't believe the MRX has seperate Level settings or distance settings for the two profiles, hence the requirement that the rears and heights will need to perform at similar levels and distances for your listening position.

3) Assuming everything in 2 works out... then you would simply set your sources to use the appropriate profile for what you need. For example, you might set your BDP source to use the Movie profile with the rear speakers and your Game source to use the Music profile with the height speakers. Than of course pick the correct Decoding Codecs for each source as well.

4) If you don't use the trigger out on the MRX... and you wanted to get real fancy... you might be able to design a speaker switch that defaults to your rear speakers, unless it gets a signal from the trigger input, in which case it switches to your height speakers... then set up the MRX to turn on the trigger with the Music Profile.

Thanks Tigger! for the reply.
I thought Dolby IIz would allow 9.1 playback, no?

Exerpt from the Dolby web site:
With a 9.1-channel setup, you have even more choices, including state-of-the-art 9.1 playback with both surround and back speakers and two front height speakers.

Dolby IIz may allow for it... but the MRX 300/500/700 are 7.1 channel receivers (The MRX 900, is a 9.1 channel receiver but its development has been put on hold last I heard). As such, you don't have dedicated Rear and Height channels. The MRX, however, is flexible enough to allow for the MRX to be setup with either Rear or Height speakers for the 6th and 7th channels, just not both at the same time

I'm curious - why the choice of the Behringer 2496 for sub management?

Wrager,
Try ARC first, it really is good at dealing with subs. If the location and ARC can't do the job, then use the DSX and run ARC LAST.
John

Equipment
Anthem MRX 700
Amp: Anthem MCA 30
Speakers front, center, left : Studio 100
Sub: Paradigm Sub 15
rear and surrounds: in wall Triad Bronze surrounds


Level Calibration value are
Dolby Volume leveler Amount 9
Dolby Volume Calibration Offset 0
Front Left +4
Center +4
Front Right +4
Surround Right -0
Surround Left -1
Movie Subwoofer +9
Music Subwoofer +9
Aux Right -4
Aux Left -4

In my previous setup I had sub level too high and cut off was at 60.
Based on the suggestions here I changed the sub volume level from 50% to 40%.
I changed the cut off from 60 to max(170/bypass). Arc readings for sub went from -9 to +10.

I have 4 home theater chairs and I didn't want to move them. So I am placing the microphone behind each of the reclining chairs.

All the recommended graphs are also attached.

I will appreciate any suggestions you have for me.

could you do a "calculate" so we can see the green curves?

I have updated my original post with the pictures that show correct graphs.

Am i reading the LF and RF correct? Do they really go that low? I wonder what they would look like with Full Range x-over.

I would have preferred the mini-dsp, but I already own the DCX. The reason I need more advanced sub management is because of the different types and locations of my subs. I have a horn sub (DTS-10) that typically requires about 10 ms of delay (horn path). Then I have a JBL 5749 (2 x 18) in the front and an AE TD-18 near the listening position. The DCX allows an individual channel for each, with delay, x-over, etc.

I think Tigger! is right. Get the sub sysytem right and let the ARC treat it as 1 sub.

John-
Let me first say thank you for what you have brought to this thread. Honestly, you are the reason I bought the MRX.

Do you think the ARC can deal with the disperate subs I have: horn, ported and nearfield? Seems like a lot to ask. But I certainly respect your perspective.

Thanks for the kind words It couldn't hurt and if the charts don't look good then go to plan B and use the DSX. You have the luxury of having options. But for fun let's see what ARC can do on it's own. The FAQ has info, compliments of Yoda Bob Pariseau, on how to set up multiple subs.
John

As you can see you have a large dip in the sub at 60hz that ARC is not able to boost enough. You need to use quick measure and move the sub around to see if you can flatten this out. Inches can make a difference. Your sub is also a candidate for setting to flat in the advanced section.

+1 Always fun to see what ARC can do on its own... and as Jayray said... start with Bob's thoughts in the FAQ

And as Jayray suggests... using DSX should be plan B... I sorta jumped there as it looked like you were already set to go that way My bad for assuming you were set in your direction already... been a few up hill battles here recently