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The Esquire Theater!! Construction Begins... - Page 52

post #1531 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I don't know what your personal style is, let alone the style of your house...but to my eyes you have a very modern looking theater with clean lines and colors. I think you have an opportunity to go with a more modern looking crown molding vs. the traditional styles you picked here. Something like THIS style from OVerstock.com has a very simple and clean line similar to your theater's style.
Although expensive, a good resource to look at crown molding profiles from every genre is www.invitinghome.com. I really like their Art Deco crowns. There is a contemporary crown molding called Memphis which you may like with your room.
What do you think of the 4" contemporary crown cove molding here as an idea?
Are you also looking at the possibility of creating a cove with the crown to illuminate with LEDs? If you are, you could even look at 8" deep by 3" or 4" high cove moldings which are specifically designed to provide a lit cove while maximizing ceiling headroom.

Thanks TMcG - I really appreciate those links. I am a total novice when it comes to crown/trim in general and I was just flipping through the interwebs looking for what I could find. You're very much correct that I'm going for a more contemporary/modern look and I like what you suggested at overstock.com. I will flip through there and see what else looks good.

With some quick measurements last night, I can see that the 2-tiered approach is not an option. So I'll be going with a single molding dropped 2-3" from the ceiling with rope light/LED lighting.

Thanks again - if anyone has more suggestions or places to look I really appreciate them!


In other news, I have made a little progress on the HT. Here are the door seals installed (except the door bottom - waiting for the carpet guys). They made a huge difference. (And yes, sorry - the area around the door is a mess!)

24d236f2.jpg



I also have this annoying support column on the right side of the theater. Dennis came up with some cool "wings" around the screen to hide it. You can see the column on the right in this pic:
IMG_1353.jpg



So the first order of business was to build a support for the acoustic treatment. I painted with the cheapest flat black paint I could find. $8/per gallon for Glidden somethingorother smile.gif It does the trick for behind black panels - Although I recently saw a suggestion from BIG that I agree with...get an eggshell finish or something like that - flat black on lumber has a tendency to rub off on your hands etc. Anyway, support:
dad334f6.jpg



Then add the acoustic treatment:
309f1f97.jpg



And then cover with a FR701 black panel. They're angled slightly inward - I really like the look Dennis came up with. I still have to make the little connector panel between the screen and this panel and then this panel and the side wall. But you get the idea:
680104fc.jpg


That's all for now - hopefully more progress tonight...but I'm watching a movie tonight too...progress definitely slows when the space is functional...but it's 1) a ton of fun and 2) a real sense of accomplishment when watching a movie in there! biggrin.gif
post #1532 of 1756
That Overstock molding is very small in height, but I provided the link to show you what I would consider to be a contemporary or modern crown style. But you should be able to find the same style in larger sizes elsewhere if Overstock doesn't carry it. If your city is anything like Charlotte, you will probably find many molding manufacturers in your area that have tons of different profiles. While not as cheap as the big box stores, they are fairly competitive from my experience.

HERE is a link for molding specifically designed for indirect lighting.

The Avondale molding (link HERE) is the molding I would choose, given that you want to preserve as much ceiling height as possible while lighting the cove with LEDs. This way you only give up three or four inches of total height (including spacing off the ceiling), but protrude 8" into the room to give a really nice perimeter soffit look with a contemporary style molding. Just my 2 cents.
post #1533 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

That Overstock molding is very small in height, but I provided the link to show you what I would consider to be a contemporary or modern crown style. But you should be able to find the same style in larger sizes elsewhere if Overstock doesn't carry it. If your city is anything like Charlotte, you will probably find many molding manufacturers in your area that have tons of different profiles. While not as cheap as the big box stores, they are fairly competitive from my experience.
HERE is a link for molding specifically designed for indirect lighting.
The Avondale molding (link HERE) is the molding I would choose, given that you want to preserve as much ceiling height as possible while lighting the cove with LEDs. This way you only give up three or four inches of total height (including spacing off the ceiling), but protrude 8" into the room to give a really nice perimeter soffit look with a contemporary style molding. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks TMcG - I think the Avondale is my favorite but it probably won't work in my room. My aisles are not very wide and my ceiling height when standing on the riser is only about 6'4" so I'm afraid that might cause some head bumps. I think I'm searching for something that will protrude into the room 4" or less.

I really like the Memphis that you suggested. Might be cool to do a contrasting color in the middle section (maybe black on the top and bottom and the gray wall color in the center...or maybe the panel color...when i decide on that. rolleyes.gif) I'm going to call around to some local places to see what profiles are available locally. Thanks again for getting me started!
post #1534 of 1756
Thanks for posting the picture with the door seals Ben. Since I am thinking about these things in my build, I was going to inundate you with questions via PM, but I figured I'd just post them here instead.

Do you completely replace the existing doorstop with the door seals?
Do you know if they can be painted?
How thick was your granite threshold?
Does the threshold butt up right to the sides of the jamb? With the door seals sitting right on top?
How much gap do you have between your threshold and the bottom of the door currently?
How much gap did you end up with at the top between your jamb and your framing and how did you end up sealing it up? (you mentioned this a while back but I don't think I ever heard your final solution).

Sorry for all the questions, but as you can tell, I am completely clueless when it comes to doors. redface.gif
post #1535 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Hi jcorbin - ask all the questions you want- many of the guys here know a ton more than me about this stuff so I like to be able to help when I can!

Here are answers to your questions:

Do you completely replace the existing doorstop with the door seals?
- Yes, I pulled off the door stops and replaced them with the seals.

Do you know if they can be painted?
- Yes, I haven't done it yet, but they can be painted.

How thick was your granite threshold?
- Mine is 5/8" thick. Mine is el cheapo from Lowes. I talked to some granite shops but didn't feel it was necessary to get into the added expense when I just wanted black and they had it at Lowes. $15 for this guy: http://www.lowes.com/pd_197792-74035-G40343658DHSX1L_4294934373__?productId=3556446&Ntt=threshold

Does the threshold butt up right to the sides of the jamb? With the door seals sitting right on top?
- Yep, exactly.

How much gap do you have between your threshold and the bottom of the door currently?
- I'm not exactly sure how much of a gap there is...not a ton...maybe another 5/8"?

How much gap did you end up with at the top between your jamb and your framing and how did you end up sealing it up? (you mentioned this a while back but I don't think I ever heard your final solution).
- Ahh yes, I did end up having to deal with a pretty significant gap there...probably 5/8" again. I used some leftover 1/2" USB and cut it to the correct width and essentially used it as one huge shim (in conjunction with other standard door shims).

Hope this helps!
post #1536 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Update!

I have FINISHED the fabric around the screen! I know it doesn't look like much of a change but man that was a lot of work! Trying to mirror this and get the angles exactly the same on each side of the room was a little more difficult than I expected, but after some head scratching, it got done. smile.gif

First I added the acoustic trimmings to the other side of the room...

0abda142.jpg



Then cover in fabric and voila! (Sorry for the blurry pic...grrrr I hate that!)


IMG_1561.jpg

For some reason the left side appears bigger in the pic...I think I hadn't tacked the frames together when I took this pic but I assure you they measure exactly the same now. rolleyes.gif

I intended to add the trim to the bottom of the panels this weekend but I got sidetracked doing some cleanup in the rest of the basement and garage. So that's on my list for this week and then the crown molding...

EDIT:
One more pic...here you can see the slightly different angles of the panels. The first panel is about 4'10" and is slightly angled out as you move from the screen toward the seats. Then close to the screen there is a second panel that's just 8" wide and it is angled in about another 35 degrees. The 8" panels were originally designed to be about 12" wide but I had to adjust because I went with a larger screen than originally planned. I used a jigsaw to work around the lip of the stage and that made finessing the fabric around that panel a little tricky, but I'm very happy with how it turned out!

822b4226.jpg


Oh wait...another EDIT!

I also added the lights behind the screen this weekend. A few things you will notice here: 1) the pic quality is crappy...sorry about that. rolleyes.gif 2) I need to build some boxes for the L/R speakers to get the tweeters to the midpoint of the screen, and 3) the lights are resting on the floor for now. I can't decide if I prefer it this way or if I will switch and put them above the screen.

79fc187a.jpg
Edited by AirBenji - 7/16/12 at 12:34pm
post #1537 of 1756
Very nice. Especially impressive since your projector is up and you have a fully-functional theater room!!

I kind-of like the uplights on the speakers as something different vs. normal in-ceiling lights pointing down. It gives it a nicer look for the theaters I have seen do this. But ultimately it won't matter much since they would be off 99.99999% of the time and only on to give your friends a quick "wow".
post #1538 of 1756
Wow. That looks phenomenal. I'm glad you got it to work out in the end.

For 16:9 content do you have masking panels to put in place or do you do it with out masking? I know SMX sells them, though I don't know if you have to purchase a special frame for that?
post #1539 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys - I am really excited about the way it is turning out. smile.gif

Dylan - The SmX panels are called ProPanels and while I do plan to get them, I haven't purchased them yet. They're one of those things that I will add down the road. (I have been watching mostly 2.35 content anyway because I love the lens and cinemascope ratio.) And for anyone reading this in the future and doing what I'm doing (add ProPanels a bit down the road), it's important to note that installing the ProPanels requires a modification to the screen, so you need to leave a little extra material to restretch the screen surface after installing the ProPanel support. There's a track that needs to be installed along the bottom of the frame between the screen surface and the face of the frame.

In other news, I am concerned that I have a problem with my center channel tweeter (aka blown). I haven't had much time to enjoy the theater lately, but last night I had a half hour so I watched the end of the first Transformers movie. I was watching at about -10dB (that's about as loud as I ever go) and I could hear a slight crackling sound for a few seconds during the dialogue by Megan Fox and Jon Voight at the very end of the movie. I replayed the scene and the crackling was reproduced at exactly the same point. I didn't have time to investigate any further (and I don't really know how to investigate further, other than to see if there is crackling in movies/music that I know wasn't there previously). I assume that if I re-run Audyssey, the center channel results graph will show some form of compensation for a blown tweeter that I didn't previously see.

I had decided to buy a bike and get into cycling instead of buying new speakers for now, but this may change that. (I know I could just buy a new tweeter if that's the problem, but I'm not sure I want to put any money into these speakers.

Ugh. frown.gif



EDIT: Very interesting...I just found some posts on the interwebs by people with the same issue at the same point...somewhat encouraging? Maybe?
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/dialogue-distortion-on-blu-ray-transformers
http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?226-Transformers-HD-DVD-Reviews-incoming!&s=0a43e444d935f3c0f563c1035776d382&p=3239&viewfull=1#post3239

Ok just found this thread...making me feel a bit better here: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=105502
Edited by AirBenji - 7/10/12 at 9:43am
post #1540 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I could hear a slight crackling sound for a few seconds during the dialogue by Megan Fox

Does anyone even pay attention to the dialogue by Megan Fox??? cool.gif
post #1541 of 1756
Thread Starter 
^ Touche' sir! smile.gif
post #1542 of 1756
You should ditch those and get a set of JTR Triple 8's. tongue.gif

After going through many sets of speakers I decided these were by far the best I tried.
post #1543 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I had decided to buy a bike and get into cycling instead of buying new speakers for now, but this may change that.

We may have to convene the AVS senior counsel to examine this egregious violation of build protocol. I do believe this to be a breach of several bylaws. Please consider your AVS build card on suspension until further notice.
post #1544 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Hahahaha well played BllDo - great post smile.gif

db783524.jpg



Dylan - If I get new speakers, they will very likely be Procella. I was absolutely shocked by a friend's system. I am hoping I can get away with just the P6 for now and upgrade to the P610 with outboard EQ and crossover in the future, but I'm concerned with how the P6 alone will mesh with my subwoofer around 70Hz.
post #1545 of 1756
They're that good? Never heard a set of Procella speakers. Makes me interested to hear these hahaha
post #1546 of 1756
Thread Starter 
They were set up in my family room and not at ear level. And yes, saying they were "that good" is an understatement.

The P6's are 3x the price of my current L/C/R, but they sounded 10x better to my ears. The high frequencies were immaculately reproduced and they gave me ZERO ear fatigue. I sometimes find the PSB speakers a bit harsh.

I am taking a road trip to Canada sometime soon to experience michelmia's recently completed room (Dennis Erskine design and Adam Pelz calibration) and I am really excited. I have a feeling I am in for a real treat.
post #1547 of 1756
Aren't the Procellas insanely expensive? I am sure they are worth every penny, but I heard around $50k for a full set-up, excluding professional calibration and some fancy DSP which is required to really make them sing. Is this correct?
post #1548 of 1756
Soooo jealous. His setup looks pretty insane.
post #1549 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Aren't the Procellas insanely expensive? I am sure they are worth every penny, but I heard around $50k for a full set-up, excluding professional calibration and some fancy DSP which is required to really make them sing. Is this correct?

Sorry to jump in, I will keep it short: P6 has an SRP of $1,599 (USD), so for a small room, a set of 5 is $8,000 and can be driven by a normal AV receiver or multi-amp. Add a P10 sub and for $12K you are a proud Procella owner! There are AVS members here who will tell you how they like owning this system.
A Medium room would need P8 for the L/C/R, which retails at $2,599, so a set of 3 x P8 plus 2 x P6 is $11,000. The P8 can also be driven by a normal, powerful AV receiver or multi-amp. Add extra P6 surrounds for 7.1, and the subs of course. So a 7.1 system for a medium room, 3 x P8, 4 x P6 and a P15 sub has an SRP of just above $20K. The configuration you need is always based on your room size, seating distance and desired SPL. It gets more expensive when you go for an Active system, such as the P610, the P815 and of course the P860! If anybody would like a quote for their room, just drop myself or Chuck Back a PM with your room measurements, happy to assist.
post #1550 of 1756
Wow - never expected to see the head of Procella commenting here - thanks Gerben.

The pricing certainly seems in line with an upper range speaker system. I guess all of the really nice theaters I have seen recently included the Procella active speaker line with two of the dual 18 inch subwoofers. That is probably why I had the $50k number stuck in my head - which is probably about right for the higher end of your line.

Unfortunately even at $15k or $20k for the speaker package alone is something I may want to have for the ultimate in sound quality but could never get approved through my own personal CFO (aka "the wife") unless I doubled my expenditures to include a bunch of shiny jewelry and clothes to grease the political wheels. Thanks for the info Gerben.
post #1551 of 1756
The Procella system AirBenji will be listening to in Canada is a P610 based system.

What one can do is start with P6 speakers and later upgrade to P610 as budget allows.
post #1552 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

What one can do is start with P6 speakers and later upgrade to P610 as budget allows.

This is exactly my plan. smile.gif

I also have a conference in Atlanta in August...maybe I can sneak by Dennis' showroom and check it out. I still haven't purchased the Quest stuff yet...maybe that will convince me. wink.gif
post #1553 of 1756
Thread Starter 
And thanks for checking in, Gerben. smile.gif
post #1554 of 1756
Nice work Ben! I love how the panels complete the room.

Can't wait for your visit later this summer. Just to warn you, the P6 in your living room were pretty amazing......but the P610 are that much better!!!!!

I'm sure you will also be convinced by the Quest panels as well.

Look forward to your visit.
post #1555 of 1756
With things looking as they do how much longer are you going to make me wait to check it out!! tongue.gif

I'm thinking about ditching my cheap AT screen and getting something a bit nicer. I'm thinking Center Stage XD, Screen Excellence's 4K material or SMX's AT material. I'm leaning towards the first because of the higher gain. Did you ever get a chance to test other AT materials out before going with the SMX?
post #1556 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

The Procella system AirBenji will be listening to in Canada is a P610 based system.
What one can do is start with P6 speakers and later upgrade to P610 as budget allows.

It is still ends up being a HUGE cash investment in the active system from what I now know of the pricing. And this would not include other almost mandatory upgrades in other areas as not to limit the speakers' capabilities. Not that I don't appreciate high-quality, it's just an individual choice where that value line is drawn.

You better bring your camera with you too, Benji!! We all need to live vicariously through your trip.
post #1557 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Ok Dylan - you finally got me. I think I am going to host a movie/get-together one evening next weekend (July 27-29). If anyone is interested - please let me know! I live next to Siena College.


Regarding screen materials, I purchased SmX without comparing to others. I read a lot on the forum and when I combined others' opinions with the sale pricing I received from AVS, I just decided to go for it. In hindsight, I wish I had looked at some of the Stewart materials. I had it in my head that Stewart was way out of my price range, but I think I saw inaccurate street pricing. I should have investigated further.

Having said that, I have no complaints and am happy with the SmX screen. I was nervous at first - I had my vision corrected and it is now very good...and I could clearly see the weave from the first row. (I had the whole 9 yards vision correction: epi-lasik with customvue wavefront and it came out better than I ever thought possible - I definitely recommend it for anyone thinking about it!) But when the lights are down and the projector is on, there is no visible weave and the image looks outstanding to me. (You can judge for yourself next weekend!) I believe the only time I can see the weave is when the screen wash lights are on full blast...it is really lighting the screen up from a sharp angle and that affects the visibility of the weave for me.


TMcG - The whole compliment of speakers and peripherals is certainly a sizeable investment (whether Procella or a different brand). But the Procella price point seems reasonable to me and I think most other speakers offering similar performance are actually more expensive. Yes, you'll need additional amp channels and crossovers to bi-amp the front 3, but the price difference in speakers appears to more-than-make up for the cost of 3 amplifier channels and X-overs. I don't know exactly what a Procella 610 should be compared to, but I have seen comparisons to Genelec and they seem to be $$$$. Also Triad Platinum LCR...MSRP for 3 of those is ~$22.5K. Conservatively, that's $12.5K over the Procella P610 pricing, and it seems that you could purchase a very good quality EQ and 3 channels of solid amplification for less than that gap. Of course, take all of this with a grain of salt because I'm no X-over/EQ/amp/speaker expert...these are just the thoughts in my head at the moment. cool.gif
post #1558 of 1756
DIBS!

SHOTGUN!

smile.gif I'll be there. Will you be playing a movie and if so what are your top ideas right now?
post #1559 of 1756
Thread Starter 
Yes sure - I was planning on a full movie, popcorn etc. (I'm turning into a fat kid!) smile.gif

I haven't thought about a title yet...anyone have thoughts?
post #1560 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

TMcG - The whole compliment of speakers and peripherals is certainly a sizeable investment (whether Procella or a different brand). But the Procella price point seems reasonable to me and I think most other speakers offering similar performance are actually more expensive. Yes, you'll need additional amp channels and crossovers to bi-amp the front 3, but the price difference in speakers appears to more-than-make up for the cost of 3 amplifier channels and X-overs. I don't know exactly what a Procella 610 should be compared to, but I have seen comparisons to Genelec and they seem to be $$$$. Also Triad Platinum LCR...MSRP for 3 of those is ~$22.5K. Conservatively, that's $12.5K over the Procella P610 pricing, and it seems that you could purchase a very good quality EQ and 3 channels of solid amplification for less than that gap. Of course, take all of this with a grain of salt because I'm no X-over/EQ/amp/speaker expert...these are just the thoughts in my head at the moment. cool.gif

I think you misunderstood my comment. The P6 setup is around $12.5k less, not the higher-end P610 setup which is on par with Triad and all the others (for the front end). I didn't say that all of this stuff might not be worth it....just that it is a huge investment that necessitates other large investments at the head-end to make it run at its best. Take it from me - I once owned a full-blown 7.2 Revel Ultima system with Levinson monoblock amps back in the day ....so I have definitely been on the top end of a home theater speaker. I can appreciate the higher quality but I just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money anymore. That is why I will have to live vicariously through your upgrades in coming months and years!
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