The Esquire Theater!! Construction Begins... - Page 3

So last night I finished up the Drylok (but there's still another area of about 10 feet I'll need to do in the near future...not looking forward to that). I also cut and dry fit a bunch of the XPS, which I will attach permanently tonight - even though I'm still not 100% sure PL-300 is the right adhesive to use (I think it requires at least one porous surface, and neither the Drylok'ed concrete nor XPS is porous). Barlav said he had good results using Great Stuff, so I think I'll give that a try, maybe in combination with a small amount of PL-300.


2 questions today folks:

1 - When using 2" XPS and Great Stuff in the rim joists, do I need to add a layer of drywall over it as a fire stop? According to the Owens Corning website, the answer is yes, but I didn't seen anything when glancing through my local code (I bet I just didn't see it).

2 - Gas line in the photo above - I'm planning just to tuck this up as close to the joists as possible, and then the clips and hat channel should give me enough clearance to hang drywall there. I don't know anything about natural gas - does anyone see any issues with that plan? And I'm assuming there are no issues with having insulation in contact with the pipe?

Thanks all!! I appreciate your input!

Hi malelan - I used the latex-based form. I thought the latex stuff had a very strong odor and I have heard that the oil-based stuff is substantially more intense, so I definitely recommend the latex. My space wasn't particularly well-ventilated while I was applying it, but I think most of us would be in the same situation (it is a basement after all haha) - having windows open for more than a few minutes in Albany NY right now isn't the best for the heating bill. Trade-off...heating bill...brain cells...maybe I should have thought this through a little more carefully haha!

Anyway, latex gets my vote.

Malelan - I definitely would go for the latex.

Regarding surface prep, I have been lucky and have had a pretty clean slate in my basement to work with. I didn't do any grinding at all and did very little sanding. I don't know if the builder took care of it when the house was built or what, but there was no protruding rebar etc. - pretty much everything was set back into the form 1/2" or so. In the few spots where there were protrusions (either in the seams between the forms the concrete was poured into or around the rebar holes), I was able to scrape it to a reasonable smoothness with a metal trowel or the end of a pry bar (probably not the most intelligent method, but it worked). I just sanded the small protrusions gently with a stiff metal wire brush (it didn't really do anything other than remove dirt so the Drylok adhered to the surface better). There are still quite a few minor protrusions (1/4 - 1/2"), but I dry-fitted one of the walls with XPS last night and they weren't a problem.

With respect to the filling/patching, yes - I did do that. I actually thought it was essential (at least it was for my peace of mind). I used Drylok FastPlug, which I think is a great product. It comes in 4lb. or 10lb. buckets. If you have more than a couple rebar holes to patch or a crack to go over, I suggest the 10lb. bucket. I bought the 4lb. bucket first as I only had the small rebar holes to fill and 2 cracks I wanted to go over (tiny hairline cracks you can barely see - just because I'm anal), and I ended up going back for the 10lb. bucket. The stuff does not spread far at all. And it sets up and becomes completely unspreadable (is that a word?) within 3-5 minutes of mixing.

Hope this helps!!

Whoa - I don't know why, but I never even thought about the possibility of putting a screw through that line (obvious inexperience on my part). Hopefully that one is tough enough that I would realize something was wrong before piercing it, but whoa! that would be all kinds of not good. Duly noted sir! Thank you for the heads up! And same for the two water lines on the other side of the room (and I bet those would be a lot easier to pierce).

Regarding the ceiling type, how about half and half haha? I will be doing DD + GG in the theater, which will be the part adjacent to the exterior walls where I will be using rigid foam and Great Stuff in the rim joists, but the portion of my basement that is already finished has a drop ceiling (and I won't be changing that, for several reasons - ductwork, a spaghetti mess of poorly run whole-house audio cables by the installer etc.). Seriously though, I'm going to go ahead and do it. Seems crazy not to.

I have seen green board before, but what is it? I'm assuming that it's a mold-resistent board like you'd use in a bathroom (I think maybe I have seen that once or twice here before), but I'll do a little research on that one and figure it out.

In other news, here's a pic of my progress on the insulation. I detailed my method in what I guess you could call my "other thread" at this point - I think it generates more interest than this one haha - but here it is:

I used four evenly spaced horizontal beads of PL-300 on the back of the board. Then I put the board on the wall and repeated for subsequent boards, but applied a small bead of Great Stuff in the groove side of the tongue and groove joint. This helped to create a good seal in the joints between panels and also should help them stick together (Great Stuff is ridiculously sticky). When I had the boards in the right place, I then taped the seams with Tyvek tape. As I said in the other thread, this method worked well, but was definitely overkill on the glue (still worth it in my opinion - I didn't want panels pulling away from the walls at all - I need every inch of room width I can muster!). Here's a pic of my progress...

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I'm hoping to get some more done this evening, but cleaning the rest of the house is higher on my priority list...lots of family coming from out of town for Turkey Day and they haven't seen my new house yet, so I'll be giving plenty of tours. For some reason, they don't agree that a few more hours of progress on the HT is more useful than time spent cleaning the house...

If anyone is interested, here's a link to the other thread on foam board adhesive / general rigid foam info-stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291704

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to insulate the rim joist in this photo? The XPS is just dry fit on there now, so I can take it off to have a little more access, but it's still pretty tight in there and I'm not sure I could squeeze 2" XPS between the joist and concrete. Also, there are a bunch of alarm system wires for the windows and doors upstairs that I would prefer not to mess with.

Right now, I'm thinking that my options are: 1) buy a ton of Great Stuff and go crazy with it; 2) leave the fiberglass as is (since it's above grade and hopefully?? won't get moisture); or 3) cut the XPS into small chunks (if they fit between the concrete and joist) and supplement with Great Stuff.

I'd obviously prefer to go with #3, but if that's not feasible, does anyone have another idea for me?

Thanks!!

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So I have made some more progress! I kinda skimped on the Thanksgiving cleaning because I'm still in the really excited phase and just want to spend all of my time on the theater! Unfortunately, that's probably going to make for a pretty late night of cleaning tonight...

I cut and dry fit all of the pieces last night. Tonight I'm going to take a crack at the joist in the pic in the post above - still not quite sure how to handle it, but I think I'm going to try to squeeze some foam in there and then just fill in with Great Stuff where necessary.

As I said before, there are a lot of alarm system wires in that cavity. Should I be afraid of getting Great Stuff on the wires for any reason? I know I'll never be able to get the Great Stuff off the wires etc., but I can't think of why that would be a problem (I don't see myself moving any windows or doors upstairs in the near future).

Here's a pic with all of the foam dry fit to the walls.

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Yeah - I'm kinda figuring that if I need access in there in the future, there is likely a larger problem going on...and yes, it will all be behind drywall at some point (hopefully not too far away), so I'm figuring if I have to get back there later, I could just run a new wire.

In other news, I also noticed an immediate temperature increase when the insulation was up (duh). Obviously, there's a noticeable difference between having no insulation on the forms at all and now having the XPS up there, but I think (if I remember the temp correctly) that there's also a noticeable difference between the fiberglass and silver foil that used to be there and the XPS that's there now. The fiberglass only went 2/3 of the way down the wall and the XPS is full coverage, but the fiberglass was R13 and the XPS is only R10. I like the foam. I wish tomorrow would hurry up and get here because it's only 9:30am and I want turkey.

Hmmm, still no definite plan for room length. I have been in contact with Dennis and we are working on that. I dont want to speak for Dennis here, but based on our previous design, it's my impression that he thought maybe the room would benefit from a little more length. The space wasn't huge before (about 22' long) and the back row was a little close to the rear wall, so I'm guessing we might end up more around the 25' mark. However, that's purely speculation and I'm leaving it up to him.

I think I like the idea of a side entrance best. That would mean cutting a hole in the wall of the finished area where all my HT stuff is now. And I think the orientation of the theater will be reversed from how it is in the finished area of the basement now, hopefully allowing me to make use of the bump-out in the back of the room for an equipment room. The distance from there to the screen should only be ~20', so I suppose I may even be able to put the PJ back there (depending on the PJ and lens - I don't know much about throw distances).

I'd like to use the space that will be behind the theater for a half bath, but there are a lot of mechanicals back there now that I'm not planning to mess with too much (big waste pipe, water softener, sump pump, sprinkler system, utility sink). If it ends up just being a mechanical room, I'm fine with that too. After all, I will be freeing up a finished space of about 13' by 24' when I move my HT gear into the finished theater. I'd like to put in a cool entrance-way or something to that effect. BIG has posted a bunch of cool entrances in some of the "show me your..." threads - I'd be interested in "borrowing" some of those ideas.

One annoying thing I do have to work around is that concrete pillar. It only sticks out a foot from the foundation wall, but it's relatively close to where I'm envisioning the screen to be. I'm going to try to use some "creative" framing techniques to get the protrusion into the room down to about 9", but I'm afraid it will be an issue for the right front speaker. Another question for Dennis I guess... (although I'm sure he'll take that issue into account in the design - he's extremely thorough).

By the way - does anyone know how to attach a .pdf file to a post? I have seen it a few times in other threads and will post a layout of the space if I can figure it out...

Thanks for the reply Cutter - I actually haven't thought about floating joists before. I should probably look into that, but my initial reaction is concern over ceiling height. Right now, I only have 7'6" from slab to joist, and when I get done with clips, channnel, DD, and carpet, I'll probably only be at 7'2"-ish. A 9-10" riser doesn't leave much headroom for those in the back row. But I suppose it is still something I should look into (don't want to leave any stones unturned!).

Regarding sound isolation, yes, I live alone and don't need it right now. However, I do hope to need it at some point. I just bought the house, and plan to be here a while, so I hope I will have another person/people to consider at some point not too far down the line. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment too??

Sound isolation also certainly adds cost and headache to the build, and I hesitate to throw a number out there because I haven't done all of the appropriate research, but I think I should be able to purchase clips, channel, insulation, green glue, acoustic caulk, putty pads, backer boxes, and an extra layer of drywall (wow this list is getting long) for somewhere south of $3K (preferably substantially south!). I totally understand that everyone has their priorities, but for me, it just seems like a decent investment.

Andreas - tracking down some pics - will get back to you on that

Oh - plus, my neighbors are quite close, and I got this guy over the summer

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Ted - Yep, Danley DTS-10 Tapped Horn. It's either a horn sub or some sort of abominable snowman. Either way, it's capable of scaring people out of the room with ease. And yes, that makes me very happy.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/D...ec%20sheet.pdf. Dennis mentioned that I might "need" another one for more even coverage. I certainly won't complain about that! But they're no longer available in the "assemble it yourself" package - now they come assembled only, with that truck bed liner Duratex finish (which is admittedly very cool). However, the assembled version carries a significantly steeper price tag. We'll see...not high on my priority list right now, but another would be very cool!

Would using floating joists eliminate the need for all clips/hat channel on the ceiling?



I think Andreas may incorporate the DTS-10 into his shrink ray technology. I am sure it's going to work very well...

You guys are killing me! So much to think about! Now I'm wracking my brain trying to think of anything that might be in the way up there...I know there's that natural gas line, a hot and cold plumbing line, and an HVAC supply and return trunk (the return needs to be moved anyway). Other than that, I can't think of much. Looked at HD online and I could get 20 2x8x16's for about $300...but then added cost of moving those lines...

I dunno - since sound isolation isn't a huge concern for me, will floating joists really outperform clips and channel by that much? If it's a difference between 80 and 85%, I'm not that interested. But if it's a difference of 80 versus 97%, then I guess I'd have to look into it further. Sorry - just thinking out loud here...