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**Official Ascend Acoustics Tower Thread** - Page 45

post #1321 of 1484
My Sierra 1's were Piano black but I opted for the espresso satin for my Towers....it would seem though the espresso might be the most popular but if I had the satin black bamboo option at time of purchase...I might have swung that way too...you really can't lose they all look so nice but different...smile.gif
post #1322 of 1484
would had got the espresso finish but i did not want to wait a couple more months plus my def tech system i have now is black might be a good thing the espesso are on backorder because i think i might like the black bamboo better.
post #1323 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Agreed, something is definitely funny. The Towers have accurate bass well into the upper 30’s low 40’s and this is typically where Audyssey will set the crossover point. Many of our tower customers have told us that Audyssey will set them to full range. Keep in mind that the towers and the horizon center have the same bass response, although the towers typically extend a bit lower since the port picks up some bass reinforcement from the floor. Since you mentioned that Audyssey set the Horizon center to 40Hz, which is about what I would expect from Audyssey, I suspect your towers might be sitting in a null or there could be a phase problem and bass between the two is cancelling.

Hey Dave,

You probably don't remember but I talked to you about 6 weeks ago? I chatted with the lovely Dina for awhile then she passed me to you and I asked you about the transformer on the RAAL. I have the cherry Towers and black bamboo Horizon.

This is going to be a long story, but a happy ending.

I was confused by the sound of the bass vs. Audyssey setting because once they had a few hours on them, the towers sounded reasonable - not obviously lacking like when brand new. I tried most of your suggestions already with no difference, using the first Audyssey run as a guide (the first one sets the basic parameters, then you have 7 more to flesh it out.) One thing I learned (Audyssey fans take note) is that it clearly adjusts the x-over after the first run (and probably the levels too.) I had thought that this wouldn't change after the first run. So, the 120 becomes 80 for me after all 8 are complete.

The things I tried were moving the mic forward and backward a foot or so from the main position (to check for nulls) and also 6" lower or so. No change. Also reversed both speaker cables - no change, and reversing one results in a negative change.

I did the above yesterday, and since there's no real problem for me, other than intellectual confusion, I was happy. Your post re-energized me, so today I got out the rat-shack meter and checked it out.

Generally, it showed within 3db, down to 31 (using a test CD with 1/3 octave tones) and -6db (uncorrected, so better than that really) at 25. So what's the catch? It was down 4ish at 63, and I have a null at 50 (the next step down) at the listening position. The null isn't an issue with a sub because it goes away if I reverse phase, which of course I do.

The way Audyssey works for x-overs is it sends the f3 to the AVR, and the AVR will generally set the next step higher available for the x-over (the CE manufacturers won't let Audyssey have control of the x-over.) With the low at 63 (edge of null?) and the null at 50, that's all she wrote as far as Audyssey is concerned. I can't help wondering if that null wasn't there, but the dip at 63 was, if Audyssey would be happy, but it's clearly not with that wide an area down, no matter that it picks back up at 40/31/25.

So, all is good. The speakers have solid output down to at least 31, but my room issues interfere at a higher frequency. And for me personally, being able to kill that null with a flip of a switch is so cool I can't stand it.

All in all, a happy ending I think smile.gif

P.S. Yes, I did check the towers with both reversed with the meter. The 63/50 issues is still there, but reduced in degree. Next time I'm motivated I'll try running a full Audyssey routine with the towers reversed to satisfy my curiosity, but I'm uncomfortable reversing the phase of two out of 5 speakers. I don't know enough to know if that's a stupid or smart thing to do (if Audyssey was happier with the towers reversed like that.)
post #1324 of 1484
Just a quick post.
I have damage nerves in my right ear so it is very sensitive to sharp pitch tones. I had the sierra 1s and loved them but wanted more for HT/70 Music/30%.

I just received my Dark Cherry Ascend Acoustic Towers with RAAL in fronts and Center!
My jaw dropped when I heard my Secret Garden song I had on the PS3. Jaw dropping differences between Sierra 1s and Towers with RAAL.

THe sound at first seem airy, detailed, crisp but not sharp. And best of all, there was no ringing in my damaged ear!

Dave F explained why to me and because there is little to no decay, my ears can tolerate higher volumes.

HT never sounded better. I watched the Rising Knight (Bat Man) and the vocals were amazing but also in the scene when the beauty was in a bar and there was shooting...crazy bass and mids. Loved the sound thus far on Netflix and Amazon instant video. SOunds way better. So if you are worried about HT with RAAL do not worry! sounds amazing. Really.
I wish I could tell you all how kind Dave F and Dina have been to me. I cannot but I will say you will not find a more classy organization and people. Amazing speakers from amazing people.


I will try to post pictures soon! Also, I would recommend bass trapps and room treatment because those will better the sound significantly!
post #1325 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post

Just a quick post.
I have damage nerves in my right ear so it is very sensitive to sharp pitch tones. I had the sierra 1s and loved them but wanted more for HT/70 Music/30%.

I just received my Dark Cherry Ascend Acoustic Towers with RAAL in fronts and Center!
My jaw dropped when I heard my Secret Garden song I had on the PS3. Jaw dropping differences between Sierra 1s and Towers with RAAL.

THe sound at first seem airy, detailed, crisp but not sharp. And best of all, there was no ringing in my damaged ear!

Dave F explained why to me and because there is little to no decay, my ears can tolerate higher volumes.

HT never sounded better. I watched the Rising Knight (Bat Man) and the vocals were amazing but also in the scene when the beauty was in a bar and there was shooting...crazy bass and mids. Loved the sound thus far on Netflix and Amazon instant video. SOunds way better. So if you are worried about HT with RAAL do not worry! sounds amazing. Really.
I wish I could tell you all how kind Dave F and Dina have been to me. I cannot but I will say you will not find a more classy organization and people. Amazing speakers from amazing people.


I will try to post pictures soon! Also, I would recommend bass trapps and room treatment because those will better the sound significantly!


Congrats and thanks for sharing,can't wait to see the pics of your Towers.

I use to owned Dali Helicon MK1 speaker that have a hybrid tweeter conventional and ribbon on the same speaker, I thought the world of them, but my gal hate the sound..She always been a little sensitive to high region sounds, so I went with another speaker for her sake wink.gif those were dome tweeters but I still missed those high that I got from the ribbons. So a few years later I got a pair of Towers..I asked my gal how they sounded and she love these even more..It goes to show that not all ribbon are equal, and I'm sure the cross over design has something to do with that as well.

Djoel
post #1326 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post

Just a quick post.
I have damage nerves in my right ear so it is very sensitive to sharp pitch tones. I had the sierra 1s and loved them but wanted more for HT/70 Music/30%.

I just received my Dark Cherry Ascend Acoustic Towers with RAAL in fronts and Center!
My jaw dropped when I heard my Secret Garden song I had on the PS3. Jaw dropping differences between Sierra 1s and Towers with RAAL.

THe sound at first seem airy, detailed, crisp but not sharp. And best of all, there was no ringing in my damaged ear!

Dave F explained why to me and because there is little to no decay, my ears can tolerate higher volumes.

HT never sounded better. I watched the Rising Knight (Bat Man) and the vocals were amazing but also in the scene when the beauty was in a bar and there was shooting...crazy bass and mids. Loved the sound thus far on Netflix and Amazon instant video. SOunds way better. So if you are worried about HT with RAAL do not worry! sounds amazing. Really.
I wish I could tell you all how kind Dave F and Dina have been to me. I cannot but I will say you will not find a more classy organization and people. Amazing speakers from amazing people.


I will try to post pictures soon! Also, I would recommend bass trapps and room treatment because those will better the sound significantly!

Psychdoctor - glad to hear the raal's aren't causing you any issues! I have recently found that I have sensitive ears and choosing a speaker has been a real pain in the butt which brings me to a few questions.

Has anyone performed a side by side comparison with the Ascend towers (raal) and Paradigm Studio 100 V5's? If so, please let me know your thoughts. I currently have the latter and I like their clarity/power, but their brightness is hurting my ears. They will be going back to the dealer and I am contemplating on getting the raal towers.

Has anyone found the raal towers fatiguing? I asked the question to Dina (Ascend) and Jim Salk and both said they have not heard of any fatigue issues with the raal tweeter. That sounds great but I still want to throw the question out there.

Thanks in advance.
post #1327 of 1484
The RAAL is about resolution, tried and true. Its about revelations. Hearing damage comes from distortion and prolonged and constant output. The body can absorb good quality output effectively without damage to the inner ear/cochlea. Its when we get into first, second, third, and forth order harmonic distortions and high levels that can open the door for possible temporary threshold shifts. When it continues at that constant level can change to permanent shift I.e. hearing loss/damage. The RAAL is about quality clear and resolute production.
post #1328 of 1484
Does anyone have Ascends in the Oklahoma City area?? I'd really like to have a listen biggrin.gif
post #1329 of 1484
Zee-Man,

I cannot speak with the same level of expertise as Brian and others, but I have the RAAL in the Sierra Horizon and have cranked the volume on a few movies and did not have any fatigue from listening. I think a better testament is that my wife sat there with me the whole time with no complaints. I had tried to explain to her before getting the Ascends the difference between a speaker that sounds like it's screaming at you vs. one that is loud and confident. She gets it now.

Sheep
post #1330 of 1484
Does anyone have the Sierra towers with RAAL in west Michigan that I could listen to?
post #1331 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustaSheep View Post

... the difference between a speaker that sounds like it's screaming at you vs. one that is loud and confident.

Well said.
post #1332 of 1484
The RAAL isn't fatiguing to me at all, but it is quite revealing. Of course, modern equipment is generally revealing in this digital age, and I find some old favs don't sound as good as they used to. New favs sound better though smile.gif

After living with them (Tower and Horizon mit RAAL) for a few months two things stand out to me. The lack of awareness of the tweeter as a separate device - it hits my ears as just a really extended midrange. And the overall clarity to a broadly defined midrange - I find myself listening at a lower level for many things because I can hear everything I need to without turning it up farther. I guess a third thing would be the surprising way they hold together at higher volume - they follow dynamic swings like a F1 car follows the track.
post #1333 of 1484
Anyone have the Raal for just the center?
post #1334 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

I find myself listening at a lower level for many things because I can hear everything I need to without turning it up farther. I guess a third thing would be the surprising way they hold together at higher volume - they follow dynamic swings like a F1 car follows the track.

I'm in the latter category. Because they are not fatiguing, I find myself inching the volume up until I realize my wife can't hear me ask for a beer. wink.gif That's what stood out to us almost immediately. It doesn't ever "feel" loud because there is no break up or distortion.
post #1335 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustaSheep View Post

I'm in the latter category. Because they are not fatiguing, I find myself inching the volume up until I realize my wife can't hear me ask for a beer. wink.gif That's what stood out to us almost immediately. It doesn't ever "feel" loud because there is no break up or distortion.

Yeah, it's like they get "bigger" instead of louder. On a well done soundtrack they can be spectacular, even though I bought them basically as a music speaker.
post #1336 of 1484
Scotty,

Yes, that is my config. I have Nrt mains and Raal center with 340's for surrounds. I did this for a couple of reasons. I wanted to sample the Raal and make an educated decision on upgrading the mains. I also wanted the ability to have great clarity at lower levels for the times the wife hits the sack before I do...which is often.

I decided against upgrading the mains, at least for now, but it has more to do with my music tastes than anything else. Someday I'll probably break down and get them, though.

Sheep
post #1337 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

Anyone have the Raal for just the center?

I do..blends nicely.
post #1338 of 1484
Thanks Sheep....I'm in the process of doing exactly that....just waiting on the next shippment of RAALs and cabinets to arrive..it might be a few more weeks from my understanding but I'm excited nonetheless...just wanna hear the RAAL for myself....cool.gif.
post #1339 of 1484
Would you say it worth upgrading just the center for movies? OR nrt/raal across?
post #1340 of 1484
I already use the NrT centre in my set up...I'm just curious to hear what if any difference the RAAL will provide at lower volumes...that alone would make this worthwhile venture IMO....doing the Towers later will largely depend on my personal findings.

Ps:I must apologize if your post was not directed at me....but now you have another opinion & I'll share my thoughts when the time comes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

Would you say it worth upgrading just the center for movies? OR nrt/raal across?

Cheers...Bill...smile.gif
post #1341 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I already use the NrT centre in my set up...I'm just curious to hear what if any difference the RAAL will provide at lower volumes...that alone would make this worthwhile venture IMO....doing the Towers later will largely depend on my personal findings.

Ps:I must apologize if your post was not directed at me....but now you have another opinion & I'll share my thoughts when the time comes.
Cheers...Bill...smile.gif

Appreciate it biggrin.gif
post #1342 of 1484
No fatigue here either with my RAAL front three.
post #1343 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

Would you say it worth upgrading just the center for movies? OR nrt/raal across?

I think this is a tough question for most to answer unless they have had both in same environment running some form of controlled test.
In my setup, I find the RAAL center to blend perfectly. Not too much nor too little. I actually just watched Hobbit and a perfect example of being able to watch at lower volumes without sacrificing "hearing" the dialogue, is the scene in the cave between Bilbo and Gallum. The dialogue was perfect. I actually was able to hear the back and forth between the two clearly with no signs of harshness. And precious's voice is harsh in itself.
post #1344 of 1484
Thanks for the comments in regards to my brightness concern, I'm sure they will work for me.

I keep hearing the raal's will not sound good if the source isn't good. How do they sound when viewing TV (Uverse cable)?
post #1345 of 1484
IMO, another great upgrade will be changing from uverse to directv when it comes to clean HD Dolby digital. I experienced both and if TV is watched, you are shortchanging yourself. The signal strength is that different and I cannot believe I had uverse. The RAAL units are some of the finest drivers out, extremely engineered and will deliver every time no matter what the material.
post #1346 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

IMO, another great upgrade will be changing from uverse to directv when it comes to clean HD Dolby digital. I experienced both and if TV is watched, you are shortchanging yourself. The signal strength is that different and I cannot believe I had uverse. The RAAL units are some of the finest drivers out, extremely engineered and will deliver every time no matter what the material.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying the audio quality of DirecTV is better than that of UVerse? If so, how would that be? Do you mean dropouts, or actual sound quality?
post #1347 of 1484
+1 - I'm curious about that also.
post #1348 of 1484
Good morning, the video upscaling is the highest quality and the true HD digital audio signal is the strongest. When I was researching DirecTV and their signal strength and technology they use, I was sold and proof is when everything was switched over. Dramatically better HD!
post #1349 of 1484
Also an interesting fact concerning the uverse phone, they told us that once we switched to uverse we can never switch to another carrier without losing our number that we have had forever and they state its due to the digital cable that's used and run with the phone cables down the street. Very interesting and I did think uverse was going to be awesome but the video and HD audio signals are far superior with DirecTV. Just my experience.
post #1350 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hspecialist View Post

Also an interesting fact concerning the uverse phone, they told us that once we switched to uverse we can never switch to another carrier without losing our number that we have had forever and they state its due to the digital cable that's used and run with the phone cables down the street. Very interesting and I did think uverse was going to be awesome but the video and HD audio signals are far superior with DirecTV. Just my experience.
That sounds like UVerse BS to me. Number porting is not difficult. If they can do it one way, they can reverse it as well. The switches that handle phone numbers are done before those cables.

That aside...

It is very difficult to some to understand how the RAAL tweeters sound without actually hearing them. I have said before that they seem smoother with more detail. Many equate more detail with less smooth....and RAAL defies that.

Also, Dave's measurements of the RAAL and how it releases energy, is very telling on why the tweeter is not the least bit fatiguing.
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