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**Official Ascend Acoustics Tower Thread** - Page 47

post #1381 of 1484
Thanks. I thought the pictures would reveal more details but I guess the room was dark and high ISO with kit lens didn't do the speakers justice. The cherry seems to blend in with the room well. I had piano black sierra 1s before and liked them as well.






You can see my room treatments and hugh SVS PB+12 subwoofer.
post #1382 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post

A few more observations to share:


2. The bass improvement was not immediately noticeable compared to the sierra 1s until a couple days of break-in. I also believe that my room treatments added significant sound improvements. The bass is distinct, powerful, punchy, to the point of visceral sensations. Comparing the bass to the sierra 1s, the sierra 1s are muddy and boomy. The bass in the Towers are separated and clear.


According to your comments on the Sierra 1's; I take this to mean that a person in the market for book shelf speakers should not waste their time with Ascend Acoustics.
Thanks.
post #1383 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

According to your comments on the Sierra 1's; I take this to mean that a person in the market for book shelf speakers should not waste their time with Ascend Acoustics.
Thanks.

Taking the opinion of one owner happy about his upgrade from bookshelves to towers as gospel even though it contradicts the experience of countless other owners and published measurements is just plain silly.
post #1384 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

According to your comments on the Sierra 1's; I take this to mean that a person in the market for book shelf speakers should not waste their time with Ascend Acoustics.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Taking the opinion of one owner happy about his upgrade from bookshelves to towers as gospel even though it contradicts the experience of countless other owners and published measurements is just plain silly.
Remember...in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1290568/official-ascend-acoustics-tower-thread/1320#post_23111692

He says he loved his Sierra-1's.
post #1385 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

According to your comments on the Sierra 1's; I take this to mean that a person in the market for book shelf speakers should not waste their time with Ascend Acoustics.
Thanks.

I loved my Sierra speakers. the bass response on them was fantastic for a bookshelf speaker. The mids are warm and the NRTs were smooth. But the Towers are much much tighter in bass and details and the sounds are kept separate for most source material. I hear things in movies and music I have not heard before. Like new sounds were added. The Sierras BS are excellent. The Towers are signficant in improving an already great sound from Ascend. I would give Sierra 1s a listen and compare them to any speaker in the price range. They are much better than the SEs (I had them as well).
Edited by psychdoctor - 3/31/13 at 12:41pm
post #1386 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

According to your comments on the Sierra 1's; I take this to mean that a person in the market for book shelf speakers should not waste their time with Ascend Acoustics.
Thanks.
'

Not even sure how you came to that conclusion
post #1387 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoctor View Post

I loved my Sierra speakers. the bass response on them was fantastic for a bookshelf speaker. The mids are warm and the NRTs were smooth. But the Towers are much much tighter in bass and details and the sounds are kept separate for most source material. I hear things in movies and music I have not heard before. Like new sounds were added. The Sierras BS are excellent. The Towers are signficant in improving an already great sound from Ascend. I would give Sierra 1s a listen and compare them to any speaker in the price range. They are much better than the SEs (I had them as well).

Hi,
I am just trying to get a feel for the sound of the Sierra 1 from what I read on this forum. I have been thinking about purchasing these speakers. I live in a remote location in Canada and it would not be feasible to order and then return them. If I order them I will have to live with them.
From your posts I gather that you think that the Sierra 1 has a fantastic, muddy, and boomy bass???
post #1388 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

Hi,
I am just trying to get a feel for the sound of the Sierra 1 from what I read on this forum. I have been thinking about purchasing these speakers. I live in a remote location in Canada and it would not be feasible to order and then return them. If I order them I will have to live with them.
From your posts I gather that you think that the Sierra 1 has a fantastic, muddy, and boomy bass???

The Sierra-1's are some of the best bookshelf speakers that you can possibly get for under $2,000 to $3,000, maybe more. They are extremely detailed, clear, and have an excellent mid-range and their top end is superb! The bass responce is absolutely great for a bookshelf speaker. Of course a tower, such as the Sierra Tower, will best the Sierra-1's bass responce, but the Sierra-1 is still absolutely great.
post #1389 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

The Sierra-1's are some of the best bookshelf speakers that you can possibly get for under $2,000 to $3,000, maybe more. They are extremely detailed, clear, and have an excellent mid-range and their top end is superb! The bass responce is absolutely great for a bookshelf speaker. Of course a tower, such as the Sierra Tower, will best the Sierra-1's bass responce, but the Sierra-1 is still absolutely great.

At 2000-3000 you will find bookshelves that will destroy the sierra1. The woofer is good for punchy bass but lacks the fundamental of a good midrange. The tweeter are ok but nothing outstanding. I think Jon Lane A1 might give them a run for the money. i may get them and see how they wouls stand against 850 sierra1. I think the sierra are good speakers but just some exagerate their finds.
post #1390 of 1484
^^^^Do that & while your at it ....see how they compare with the ST's.....wink.gif
post #1391 of 1484
well i have a pair a selah tempesta comming in, i will compare that as well.
post #1392 of 1484
It doesnt take much, Salk song surround I and II will provide more detail then the sierra 1.
post #1393 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

The Sierra-1's are some of the best bookshelf speakers that you can possibly get for under $2,000 to $3,000, maybe more. They are extremely detailed, clear, and have an excellent mid-range and their top end is superb! The bass responce is absolutely great for a bookshelf speaker. Of course a tower, such as the Sierra Tower, will best the Sierra-1's bass responce, but the Sierra-1 is still absolutely great.

Don't you think that this is a little over the top.
How many bookshelf speakers up to $3000 have you compared the Sierra 1 to. You have made some bold statements here. Why would any other company even bother to make a speaker in this price range.
post #1394 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

Don't you think that this is a little over the top.
How many bookshelf speakers up to $3000 have you compared the Sierra 1 to. You have made some bold statements here. Why would any other company even bother to make a speaker in this price range.

I do not know what SIerra 1's cost these days. I paid around $1000, and nothing for $1000 can compare with the smooth sound of SIerra 1s and the bass was fantastic. Now, that I moved up to towers, I can see the limitations of the Sierra 1s. The towers are tight, mids are clear, the highs are silky in detail and music separation is noticeable. I will say that at first I was "untrained" to hear the difference until days later. Now I could not go back to Sierra !s. But in fairness, Sierras are bookshelf speakers and less than a 1/3rd of cost as I remember. If I had the money, I would have kept the sierras for surrounds. I also believe that one cannot underestimate the room treatment effects and AVR/separates. I have Z11 AVR from Yammy and it is a decent AVR (flagship). I image pre/amplify separates would do more justice to sound. BUt I also recommend to all: Buy room treatments for about $300 you can get Aurulex for highs and bass traps from ebay. Make any speaker sound better.
post #1395 of 1484
I recall sending you a PM asking your opinion...on that very subject along with a couple of other menbers who own both. You told me I must try and listen for myself....what has changed sine then....you seem more assertive in your valadation of the Salks now...what has changed.?

Fwiw...I never had the opportuinity to listen to the Salks maybe one day down the road I will but right now I have NO desire to....as I am very happy with the Ascend Towers and the same can be said of the Phils or any other speaker out there.smile.gif..

Cheers,, Bill...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

It doesnt take much, Salk song surround I and II will provide more detail then the sierra 1.
post #1396 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I recall sending you a PM asking your opinion...on that very subject along with a couple of other menbersdwhio have both. You told me I must try and listen for myself....what has changed since. then....you seem more assertive in your valadation of the Salks...what has changed.? F

Fwiw...I never had the opportuinity to listen to the Salks maybe one day down the road I will but right now I have NO desire to....as I am very happy with the Ascend Towers and the same can ve said of the Phils.smile.gif..

Cheers,, Bill...
im not sure if you are talking to me, but in any case, im not saying the sierra suck or anything, they are great but i just dont seem to agree that they will be compared to other speakers or bookshelves in the 2000-3000.
The thing is, even my ST sounds better, and now arent they sierra suppose to compare to speakers at much higher price?
post #1397 of 1484
Yup I was talking to you...I added your quote...only a bit late....sure they can compare they likely even compete with more expensive monitors....you already stated that A1 @ 300.00 will give them a run for their money....that sure doesn't sound like a ringing endoresemt of a product you own...in most all case scenerios when a less expensive speaker is compared to a more expensive one it will need to be a whole lot better to valudate its cost otherwise it's a lose lose situation.. I for one never heard the Sieera 1 but I owned the Nrt version and agree with psychdoctor that the Tower and the Sierra are a different beast. I am now waiting upon my STC RAAL to arrive so I can hear what all the fuss is about.

Enjoy yopur nice collection of speakers.smile.gif..
post #1398 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

It doesnt take much, Salk song surround I and II will provide more detail then the sierra 1.

how about with the NrT tweeter? these are pretty detailed

so you have salks and ascend speakers?
post #1399 of 1484
I dont own the arx a1 but for 300, just for fun what they can give me.
As you pointed out, the sierra tower are in a whole different league, so even ascend itself wont beat himself, so what makes the sierra 1 so sure to compare to others at higher price point, you get my point?
The sierra center should sound pretty close to the towers. If you are geting the raal then they may sound flatter as indicated with the FR and with less sibilance then the nrt, which what might translated to a cleaner and more acurate midrange.
post #1400 of 1484
Hi Ricardo...

Nothing personal, but you tend to state your personal opinion as fact, when the actual facts differ quite a bit from your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

At 2000-3000 you will find bookshelves that will destroy the sierra1. The woofer is good for punchy bass but lacks the fundamental of a good midrange.

Fact is, we receive more glowing feedback regarding the Sierra-1's mids than any other characteristic of the Sierra-1. I learned a long time ago to let the overall market opinion dictate the strengths and weaknesses of a design. That said, the Sierra-1 has been and continues to be one of the most successful ID Audio loudspeakers ever produced, with sales numbers starting to surpass many highly regarded and popular brick and mortar models, all that with essentially zero marketing. When was the last time you saw an Ascend banner, advertisement or even a trade show presence? Truly remarkable! Understand that your personal opinion of the Sierra-1 is extremely uncommon.

The woofer in the Sierra-1 is actually designed more for midrange response than punchy bass. We spent a lot of time and expense on optimizing midrange performance up to about 3 kHz by including fully optimized massive upper and lower copper (not aluminum) shorting rings and a specific voice coil winding. The woofer is a very low inductance design, about 1/3 the inductance of the SEAS woofer used in your Song Towers. It is one of the main reasons I chose not to use that same SEAS woofer in the Sierra-1, well before there was a Salk Song Tower. See the attached pic of the massive copper shorting ring, this much copper is typically reserved for SEAS Excel drivers

cring.jpg 318k .jpg file

The one and only compromise in the Sierra-1 woofer is that it has higher mass and this enables it to offer rather remarkable bass response and dynamics for a speaker of this size and price point.

I know you prefer the midrange response of your $2K/pair Song Towers, they are indeed great speakers and I am a huge fan. However, I feel I must share with you that during various listening comparisons between the SongTowers and Sierra-1 NrT, several unbiased (non-Ascend and non-Salk owners) actually preferred the mids of the Sierra-1 NrT. If you want this same level of dynamics, imaging and transparency of the standard Sierra-1 but with more midrange detail, the Sierra-1 NrT is well worth it. I know it goes against your logic, but midrange detail is improved due to allowing a lower crossover point (more mids through the tweeter) and shallower filter slopes (both with the tweeter and woofer) which does enable more detail to be resolved -- all while maintaining the remarkable dynamics of the Sierra-1. The midrange improvement is not subtle…
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

It doesnt take much, Salk song surround I and II will provide more detail then the sierra 1.

Possibly, when compared to the standard Sierra-1 if someone is looking for greater detail… but neither of these Salk's will match the low end performance of the Sierra-1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

The thing is, even my ST sounds better, and now arent they sierra suppose to compare to speakers at much higher price?

I would hope your $2k/pair floor standing Song Towers sound better to you (I too prefer them to our standard Sierra-1). Our $2k/pair Sierra Towers also sound better to me than our Sierra-1 wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

The sierra center should sound pretty close to the towers. If you are geting the raal then they may sound flatter as indicated with the FR and with less sibilance then the nrt, which what might translated to a cleaner and more acurate midrange.

Billy was referring to our Horizon Center, which sounds nearly identical to our Sierra Towers. The Sierra-1 center really can't compare to our Horizon Center or Sierra Towers. In addition, the advantage of our RAAL tweeter with regard to midrange performance has nothing to do with sibilance or lack thereof, or a flatter response. There are several aspects to our RAAL ribbon that improve midrange performance. Most critical is the fact the RAAL ribbon we are using has nearly 3 times the radiating area of a 1 inch dome tweeter which allows it to dig down deeper into the midrange response with less strain, far improved transient accuracy, much less stored energy and higher resolution. It is very important to keep in mind that for most loudspeakers, the midrange response is not just produced by the "midrange" driver -- the tweeter handles most of the high middle range (1 kHz - 5 kHz) and this is the detail / clarity range to the human ear.

Our Sierra-1 was never about a single unbeatable performance characteristic. Certainly there are speakers at higher price points (or even similar price points) that may have an edge in one particular area like the midrange, or a speaker may have an edge in the highs or one might have better lows etc. From day one the Sierra-1 was about complete performance in a bookshelf speaker, from lows through the mids to the highs, from its transparency and imaging (of which I know you are a huge fan of) to its remarkable build quality and well proven reliability. As the designer, I will be the first to admit it is not the “best” at any specific performance characteristic, nor should it be at this price point – but when combining all performance characteristics of a bookshelf loudspeaker, it certainly stands out in a crowd, as well proven by its continued worldwide popularity – and all accomplished with an annual marketing budget that is less than we spend on Sparkletts drinking water in a year wink.gif As I mentioned earlier, truly remarkable!
post #1401 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

Hi,
I am just trying to get a feel for the sound of the Sierra 1 from what I read on this forum. I have been thinking about purchasing these speakers. I live in a remote location in Canada and it would not be feasible to order and then return them. If I order them I will have to live with them.
From your posts I gather that you think that the Sierra 1 has a fantastic, muddy, and boomy bass???

Hi Henry,

You will have much better luck in discussing our Sierra-1 in its dedicated thread. Please check here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/849859/the-official-ascend-acoustics-sierra-thread

We ship Sierra-1 to Canada several times per week and it is very possible that you might find an owner somewhat local to you willing to demo his set. Please feel free to post an "audition request" here on AVS forum or on our own forum.

Also, please do let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Take care!
post #1402 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Hi Henry,

You will have much better luck in discussing our Sierra-1 in its dedicated thread. Please check here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/849859/the-official-ascend-acoustics-sierra-thread

We ship Sierra-1 to Canada several times per week and it is very possible that you might find an owner somewhat local to you willing to demo his set. Please feel free to post an "audition request" here on AVS forum or on our own forum.

Also, please do let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Take care!

Thanks Dave.
I have read everything that I can find on the Sierra speakers. I have been on these forums long enough to know that the truth lies somewhere between: a $300 speaker is just as good and they are better that any speaker up to $3000.
post #1403 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Lambert View Post

Thanks Dave.
I have read everything that I can find on the Sierra speakers. I have been on these forums long enough to know that the truth lies somewhere between: a $300 speaker is just as good and they are better that any speaker up to $3000.

LOL -- yep, you have certainly spent perhaps too much time on AVS wink.gif

Just let me know if I can be of any assistance in your research, I know the Sierra-1 better than anyone and I am certainly no sales person biggrin.gif
post #1404 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Hi Ricardo...

Nothing personal, but you tend to state your personal opinion as fact, when the actual facts differ quite a bit from your opinion.
Fact is, we receive more glowing feedback regarding the Sierra-1's mids than any other characteristic of the Sierra-1. I learned a long time ago to let the overall market opinion dictate the strengths and weaknesses of a design. That said, the Sierra-1 has been and continues to be one of the most successful ID Audio loudspeakers ever produced, with sales numbers starting to surpass many highly regarded and popular brick and mortar models, all that with essentially zero marketing. When was the last time you saw an Ascend banner, advertisement or even a trade show presence? Truly remarkable! Understand that your personal opinion of the Sierra-1 is extremely uncommon.

Hi Dave, nothing against you or your products. The fact is, the glowing feedback you receive are all opinions. When people are intitle to comments and opinions i sure take a part of it.
Like i said, i dont mean to say that the sierra 1 are bad speakers. My point is that when someone starts to compare it with speakers $2000-3000 range then i feel to disagree thats because even comparing with a $2000 Song tower, people will start to go against to say words like : oh those $2000 speaker better be better,,, so after all is not that hard to find speaker that will league the sierra1.
You mentioned that there were zero marketing on the sierra1, so you would not consider a professional review as a marketing tool? Specially from enjoythemusic.com,audioholics,affordable audio etc.? No?
Quote:

The woofer in the Sierra-1 is actually designed more for midrange response than punchy bass. We spent a lot of time and expense on optimizing midrange performance up to about 3 kHz by including fully optimized massive upper and lower copper (not aluminum) shorting rings and a specific voice coil winding. The woofer is a very low inductance design, about 1/3 the inductance of the SEAS woofer used in your Song Towers. It is one of the main reasons I chose not to use that same SEAS woofer in the Sierra-1, well before there was a Salk Song Tower. See the attached pic of the massive copper shorting ring, this much copper is typically reserved for SEAS Excel drivers

Thats odd, but it doesnt matter because comparing woofers with different paramenters dont have any meaning and im suprised that a woofer like the one used in the ST that doesnt even have shorting ring will deliver such detail and resolution.
I remmember you did a test on the sierra bamboo cabinets VS a MDF made speaker from a different brand to show the difference in stiffeness. I find it odd that you did not built a MDF sierra 1 comparison. I thought that would give a better comparison.
Quote:
The one and only compromise in the Sierra-1 woofer is that it has higher mass and this enables it to offer rather remarkable bass response and dynamics for a speaker of this size and price point.
No question about that, but as you pointed out, the higher mass may have messed the lower midrange detail that the sierra 1 lacks!
Quote:
I know you prefer the midrange response of your $2K/pair Song Towers, they are indeed great speakers and I am a huge fan. However, I feel I must share with you that during various listening comparisons between the SongTowers and Sierra-1 NrT, several unbiased (non-Ascend and non-Salk owners) actually preferred the mids of the Sierra-1 NrT. If you want this same level of dynamics, imaging and transparency of the standard Sierra-1 but with more midrange detail, the Sierra-1 NrT is well worth it. I know it goes against your logic, but midrange detail is improved due to allowing a lower crossover point (more mids through the tweeter) and shallower filter slopes (both with the tweeter and woofer) which does enable more detail to be resolved -- all while maintaining the remarkable dynamics of the Sierra-1. The midrange improvement is not subtle…
Possibly, when compared to the standard Sierra-1 if someone is looking for greater detail… but neither of these Salk's will match the low end performance of the Sierra-1.
I would hope your $2k/pair floor standing Song Towers sound better to you (I too prefer them to our standard Sierra-1). Our $2k/pair Sierra Towers also sound better to me than our Sierra-1 wink.gif
They may not be ascend or salk owners but could they be not your friends or folks you may know and what is the probabilty on an unbias comment?
So you seem to agree that the Salk surround are more detail then the sierra? At least we might have an agreement on something. I do prefer the overall sound from the ST, not only the midrange,but they sound more naturall to me and not miniture at some tones. Also, the sierra sounds a bit boxy to me, i feel that the midrange is to localized and when i read people say regading the sierra 1 as beeing forward, i thought thats what they think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Billy was referring to our Horizon Center, which sounds nearly identical to our Sierra Towers. The Sierra-1 center really can't compare to our Horizon Center or Sierra Towers. In addition, the advantage of our RAAL tweeter with regard to midrange performance has nothing to do with sibilance or lack thereof, or a flatter response. There are several aspects to our RAAL ribbon that improve midrange performance. Most critical is the fact the RAAL ribbon we are using has nearly 3 times the radiating area of a 1 inch dome tweeter which allows it to dig down deeper into the midrange response with less strain, far improved transient accuracy, much less stored energy and higher resolution. It is very important to keep in mind that for most loudspeakers, the midrange response is not just produced by the "midrange" driver -- the tweeter handles most of the high middle range (1 kHz - 5 kHz) and this is the detail / clarity range to the human ear.

Our Sierra-1 was never about a single unbeatable performance characteristic. Certainly there are speakers at higher price points (or even similar price points) that may have an edge in one particular area like the midrange, or a speaker may have an edge in the highs or one might have better lows etc. From day one the Sierra-1 was about complete performance in a bookshelf speaker, from lows through the mids to the highs, from its transparency and imaging (of which I know you are a huge fan of) to its remarkable build quality and well proven reliability. As the designer, I will be the first to admit it is not the “best” at any specific performance characteristic, nor should it be at this price point – but when combining all performance characteristics of a bookshelf loudspeaker, it certainly stands out in a crowd, as well proven by its continued worldwide popularity – and all accomplished with an annual marketing budget that is less than we spend on Sparkletts drinking water in a year wink.gif As I mentioned earlier, truly remarkable!

I meant the horizon center not the sierra1 center. Noticed i mentioned raal? Excuse me for the typo.
Well Dave thanks for admitting that, i know the sierra 1 is not unbeatable. I just felt that some people went over the top in discribing the sierra1.
One thing for sure is that my post was not to defame the sierra1 by any means.
Edited by RicardoJoa - 4/2/13 at 6:59am
post #1405 of 1484
Dave, please please keep working on getting the Horizon Center in piano black. I have been waiting since I got my towers in early December smile.gif . I really want the complete front package soon soon soon or even sooner than that cool.gif
post #1406 of 1484
Hi Ricardo,

I will address a few of your comments...
Quote:
The fact is, the glowing feedback you receive are all opinions. When people are intitle to comments and opinions i sure take a part of it.
Like i said, i dont mean to say that the sierra 1 are bad speakers. My point is that when someone starts to compare it with speakers $2000-3000 range then i feel to disagree thats because even comparing with a $2000 Song tower, people will start to go against to say words like : oh those $2000 speaker better be better,,, so after all is not that hard to find speaker that will league the sierra1.

That is one of my points, Ricardo... Many people do feel that our Sierra-1 can compete with speakers at those price points and their opinions should be respected, as should yours. The only reason I bothered to respond in the first place is that you made that rather disparaging remark regarding the Sierra-1 woofer, and stated it in such a way that it came across as fact, where the actual facts regarding the matter are quite different than what is actually your opinion... BTW, the post you responded to did specifically mention "bookshelf" speakers -- of which your $2K/pair SongTowers are far from being a bookshelf speaker, thus making your comment a moot point.
Quote:
You mentioned that there were zero marketing on the sierra1, so you would not consider a professional review as a marketing tool? Specially from enjoythemusic.com,audioholics,affordable audio etc.? No?

No, I for one do not consider that review as marketing, more of a confirmation of performance. As I mentioned, -- I said "essentially" zero marketing. We have never and will never pay anyone to review our products which puts us at risk of a poor review. If that review turned out poorly, would you still consider it marketing? We also sent our Sierra-1 to the NRC...
Quote:
I remmember you did a test on the sierra bamboo cabinets VS a MDF made speaker from a different brand to show the difference in stiffeness. I find it odd that you did not built a MDF sierra 1 comparison. I thought that would give a better comparison.

Hmmm... not sure what your point is or what you are even referring to. We have built dozens of Sierra-1 cabinets in MDF. We have built Sierra-1 prototypes out of MDF, various hardwoods and even different types of bamboo. I recall a post you made about a week ago in another thread positively discussing what it feels like to knuckle rap test the Sierra-1 cabinet. If you don't feel cabinet materials matter, build a speaker cabinet out of cardboard and have a listen. Then keep adding more and more sheets of cardboard and listen to how clarity and transparency improves with each consecutive sheet. There is a reason why many high end speaker companies stop using MDF on their higher end lines and switch to different materials. Check this link for a detailed comparison: http://www.makeitfrom.com/compare-materials/?A=Bamboo-Plywood&B=Medium-Density-Fiberboard-MDF
Quote:
They may not be ascend or salk owners but could they be not your friends or folks you may know and what is the probabilty on an unbias comment?

Now you are insulting my integrity Ricardo, and in nearly 30-years of continuous work in this industry, I can't recall anyone questioning my integrity. Hundreds of people come to our facility each year for demo's. Some bring their own speakers, some bring speakers they have borrowed. We have hosted several formal listening events with various audio clubs -- I don't know any of these people. The probability of an unbiased comment is more likely than not as we always let the listeners have free run of our demo room. We only get involved when they ask questions or we have to gently ask them to turn it down.

Let me ask you a question, what is more likely -- that someone could possibly hear things differently than you and thus develop a different opinion or that we here at Ascend actually go out of our way and encourage our friends to make various comments in favor of our products? Frankly, my friends could care less about audio and never visit our facility, we are far too busy actually building and selling speakers.

Why not pay us a visit and do some A/B comparisons yourself? Have you ever tried swapping the locations of your Sierra-1 and ST's? If not, I suggest you do just for your own reference. It is certainly possible some of your dislikes might be room related as I have never heard anyone say the Sierra-1 sound boxy... never, -- in thousands upon thousands of pairs sold.
Quote:
So you seem to agree that the Salk surround are more detail then the sierra? At least we might have an agreement on something.
No -- I specifically said possibly as it completely depends on the listener and I have learned to never try and predict what someone else will hear or what opinions they will develop. Have you even heard the speaker you are assuming to be more detailed? Something tells me that you haven't... wink.gif Understand that it is NOT a SongTower, it is a very different design with 1/2 the midrange radiating area and much less cabinet volume -- those lower mids you love so much in the SongTower are not going to sound the same...

I know you prefer your Songtowers to the Sierra-1 and honestly, I certainly have no issue with that. However, I also know that you are not fully satisfied with them either as you are continually looking for something better and we have had many discussions regarding this. I truly hope you do find the perfect loudspeaker for YOU, but understand that when and if you do, others might prefer a considerably less expensive speaker and they are entitled to say that speaker X is better than Speaker Y at 1/4 the price...

It's all good Ricardo -- you will enjoy this hobby much more when you truly accept the fact that everyone has unique hearing. It is really no different than food preferences and I know plenty of people who prefer inexpensive domestic wine to wines that are much more expensive and should "technically" taste better smile.gif
post #1407 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

Dave, please please keep working on getting the Horizon Center in piano black. I have been waiting since I got my towers in early December smile.gif . I really want the complete front package soon soon soon or even sooner than that cool.gif

We can do this for you now and we would be happy to. The cabinet, of course, would be a local build and thus the piano black option would cost you about $400-$500 more compared to what the retail price would be for an overseas version. Honestly, my recommendation is to just pay the extra to have our local cabinet maker do it for you. There just isn't enough demand for a piano black horizon center (people don't want the TV reflections off the center) to justify the minimum order quantities required to have our overseas cabinet maker do a run for us. It would be an extremely poor business decision on my end and would seriously hamper development of other products due to having such a large amount of capital tied up in stagnant inventory. I am not saying it will never happen, but the demand is just too low right now, with many customers opting for the more discreet center speaker look of the matte black and no TV reflections.

We also might be able to save you some additional $$$ if we only do a few sides in the piano black. For example, if you keep the grille on, the front baffle and certainly the bottom and rear baffles can remain matte black. If you like, I can look into this option for you -- just send me an email so we can discuss.
post #1408 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Now you are insulting my integrity Ricardo, and in nearly 30-years of continuous work in this industry, I can't recall anyone questioning my integrity. Hundreds of people come to our facility each year for demo's. Some bring their own speakers, some bring speakers they have borrowed. We have hosted several formal listening events with various audio clubs -- I don't know any of these people. The probability of an unbiased comment is more likely than not as we always let the listeners have free run of our demo room. We only get involved when they ask questions or we have to gently ask them to turn it down.

...(snip)...

Why not pay us a visit and do some A/B comparisons yourself?

Just my $.02, but Dave F was fabulous when I went to audition the Sierra towers at his shop in December. As he said, he gives free reign of the demo room, handing over the remote and actually stepping outside so you can focus on the speakers/material instead of trying to make conversation. He's incredibly knowledgeable (obviously), laid back, and was happy to answer any/all questions I had after listening. I was also lucky enough to be able to set up a demo on very short notice, around the holidays, and was still made to feel at home. I left very impressed not just with the speakers, but with Dave and Ascend in particular. I'd never met him before, and do not (as of yet) own any of his products, but they are on my list of finalists for an upcoming system, both because of their performance and because of the overall very positive impression I left with after meeting Dave and some of the Ascend crew.

BTW, thanks Dave and Dina, for taking the time to make a stranger from Colorado feel at home.
post #1409 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Just my $.02, but Dave F was fabulous when I went to audition the Sierra towers at his shop in December. As he said, he gives free reign of the demo room, handing over the remote and actually stepping outside so you can focus on the speakers/material instead of trying to make conversation. He's incredibly knowledgeable (obviously), laid back, and was happy to answer any/all questions I had after listening. I was also lucky enough to be able to set up a demo on very short notice, around the holidays, and was still made to feel at home. I left very impressed not just with the speakers, but with Dave and Ascend in particular. I'd never met him before, and do not (as of yet) own any of his products, but they are on my list of finalists for an upcoming system, both because of their performance and because of the overall very positive impression I left with after meeting Dave and some of the Ascend crew.

BTW, thanks Dave and Dina, for taking the time to make a stranger from Colorado feel at home.


Wow...nice of you to share that story with us. Fwiw...what led me down the path to finally buying Ascends after many years of hearing & reading about their products was largely due to endorsements and/or testimonials of people such as yourself. Maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to head out there and see operational aspect of his company up close... from the inside....biggrin.gif

I for one would never question his(Dave's) commitment, desire and most of all his integrity....having to interject and correct any impropriety stated by another poster...is BS...I was very disapointed to read Ricardo's remarks...he has a POV and entitled to it...just like all of us ...he expressed it but IMO he went a bit to far....and that is JMO.
post #1410 of 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Wow...nice of you to share that story with us. Fwiw...what led me down the path to finally buying Ascends after many years of hearing & reading about their products was largely due to endorsements and/or testimonials of people such as yourself. Maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to head out there and see operational aspect of his company up close... from the inside....biggrin.gif

I for one would never question his(Dave's) commitment, desire and most of all his integrity....having to interject and correct any impropriety stated by another poster...is BS...I was very disapointed to read Ricardo's remarks...he has a POV and entitled to it...just like all of us ...he expressed it but IMO he went a bit to far....and that is JMO.

If you do, maybe we can hit a Kings (NHL) game.
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