**Official Ascend Acoustics Tower Thread** - Page 11

Originally Posted by Nuance

It's good to know you actually consider this a rivalry, as I now know you can no longer be un-biased. To each their own. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Nuance

Cool! Hopefully you chose based on hearing them both, then picking the winner.

Originally Posted by Nuance

It's good to know you actually consider this a rivalry, as I now know you can no longer be un-biased.

Originally Posted by Chu Gai

Does it matter after 3-4 beers?

Originally Posted by malaplace

No, but since you're clearly concerned, I actually made my choice using the same method my former professors used to grade law school exams -- I put both names on a few different sheets of paper and tossed the stack in the air. The one that landed facing up most often was declared winner.

Originally Posted by cschang

I guess I wasn't clear. I view the two companies as competitors. I do not want to see it turn into an ugly rivalry.

It is fair for you to view me as unbiased. I have no problem with that, as long as you are OK if people viewing you in the same manner.

Originally Posted by Nuance

You can call me a fanboy, sure, but I am not tied to the company in any way, such as being a forum moderator and advertising it in my sig. If the Ascends are the better speaker this Fall, I'll admit it. Could you say the same?

Originally Posted by cschang

I'll address the forum moderator and advertising it in my sig.

I was by from the AVS Forum to identify myself as a voluntary forum moderator. Also, if you see how my sig is put together, it will not show up if anyone does a search on Ascend Acoustics. So people can interpret any bias as they see fit.

I'm not hiding behind a sig or no sig.

The better speaker...of course I can say the same. I am not the one here making allegations. Hell, we are in an Ascend Tower thread. Is this sort of thing going on in the Salk thread you started?

Do you have any other allegations? Let's get them out.

See what I mean about this turning ugly.

Originally Posted by FTracy3

Am very interested in hearing these Towers, may be worth a drive down to San Celemente from LA. Just wondering if my Pioneer VSX-94TXH will be a good match. Pioneer doesn't rate its speakers for 4 ohms but it does put out 140 w per channel at 8 ohms, and, if I'm reading the specs right, 180 per channel at 6 ohms. Would also be interested in hearing more about how the bottom end sounds as far as clarity/differentiation between different types of basses.

Originally Posted by Nuance

I am calling a spade a spade; no allegations here.

This sort of thing has gone on in the Salk thread, sure. Read through it. I'll tell you what isn't in the Salk thread: Ascend brand and owner bashing, which I am not doing here either.
But hey, if it bothers you just say so; I'll happily leave.

Originally Posted by cschang

A spade a spade? How so? Would you rather the sig not be there?

Owner bashing? Where was anything bashed? Is that what set you off? I found it odd that you were going down this path...deeper and deeper.

Originally Posted by TJHUB

Curtis: you are the biggest Ascend fanboy in group of very serious competitors.

Originally Posted by TJHUB

I personally heard issues that would keep me from buying the Ascend's

Originally Posted by Nuance

Perhaps it did, yeah. Like mariob said, lets just forget about it. Take care.

Originally Posted by cschang

That's a fair opinion. Does my opinion count for you and Nuance?

TJ, you have made it very clear that you did not like the Tower version you heard, and very clear what you think of the dome tweeters. The comments you made of the Ascend dome, have you made similar comments about the dome in the Salks?

Like you and Nuance, I too listen to as many speakers as I can when time permits, and also state when I hear great speakers, but I guess I am still biased in your eyes and you are not. Also, there are observations by ivanpino and sdurani, non-Ascend owners. Why is it you don't want to credit their thoughts?

I am still trying to figure out what set Nuance off.

Originally Posted by merrymaid520

Hey Terry,
Good find on those Salk monitors for Patrick! Looking forward to hearing them.

Since we have another GTG in the works, would you say my Towers main drawback for you was the Dome tweet versus the Salks Ribbons? Was there something else that really stuck out? I ask because I want to know your thoughts prior to hearing the revised crossover in them now. I think I might know, but I just want to see if what I heard after the changes aligns with everyone else. No worries on offending me, you know how I feel about all of us and our hobby

Originally Posted by mariob33

Could you share? Have me wondering...

Originally Posted by TJHUB

Of course you can have an opinion for Nuance and myself. I have no issue with that. I do really like my speakers, but you'll never see me promote them at every single opportunity. As a matter of fact, you won't see me comment on GTG's any longer either. I'll attend because I really enjoy being around the guys that normally attend. There are other speakers I've heard that I'd like to try, but I still think my Salk's sound the best...overall...

I heard a few things I didn't seem to like about the Ascend Towers. The biggest issue I've always had with the Ascend Sierra-1 and Tower is the dome tweeter. It's the biggest let down in my opinion to what could be a really great speaker. It would be true that I have not heard a soft dome tweeter that I like. Some metal domes are better, but ribbons just seem to grab me. I haven't heard a lot of ribbons, but I can't seem to enjoy any speaker that doesn't have them. I have not heard the soft dome from the Salk's either, and I'm willing to bet I wouldn't like that one either. I was trying to be clear about that. Sorry if I wasn't.

It's obvious you, Nuance, and I hear very differently. I can't explain that, but it seems so. Nuance and I differ a little bit in preference, but we hear and identify things very similarly. I rarely seem to agree with your impressions from what I've seen.

Overall Curtis, I'm just giving you a hard time. I've stated in the past that I think you're a pretty good guy. Unbiased? No, but still a good guy. I think I'm unbiased, but maybe I'm not. I try to be.

I don't think you "set off" Nuance. Frustrated him a little, but not "set off". He is the most object, political guy I know in the audio world. I'm am almost his exact opposite. I seem to form opinions more quickly and state them much more frankly.

I'm not, nor did I intend to discredit those non-Ascend owner's thoughts. Did I state that? I don't doubt in any way what they heard. It is very possible. I was just more curious what it is about the speakers that make one image better over the other. As I asked, I thought imaging came more from the midrange. Maybe in the case of the Salk's ribbon being crossed so low (where I don't know) is why they don't image as well? I seem to be very satisfied with the imaging from my Salk's, but maybe I just haven't heard better at this point. My Salk's seem to image every bit as good as the B&W 800 series I used to have (jeez, what was I thinking!).

One thing for certain is that this thread is entirely too long for only a couple of pairs of Towers being out there.

Again, everyone should listen for themselves. Did I truly like the Ascend Towers? No. How many speakers in their price range could I list as "better"? I'd say the Maggies in some ways. That's it.

Dave: I think it's absolutely fantastic that you are offering a ribbon tweeter option. And from what I understand, one of the best options available. Very cool.

Originally Posted by Nuance

I don't want to see an ugly "rivalry" either. I don't really consider Ascend and Salk rivals, though; just two top notch choices in the speaker market. Again, to each their own.

Originally Posted by cschang

Thanks TJ, very much appreciate the post.

I think I am fair, and try hard to be, but for being unbiased/biased, I just think one can judge that for themselves. Have you ever lost out on something when thinking you are more deserving? I try to never call people "fanboys". It just doesn't make for nice conversation. You and Nuance think I am biased because I don't agree with you...although I am not sure what we don't exactly agree on....it seems imaging was something at least Nuance agreed on and something you didn't focus on. Punch we seem to agree that the Tower has more, although you say it is too much(which I disagree). The Tower being able to play at higher levels is something that Nuance seems to agree on, something in the past that I refer to as the Tower as being more dynamic. I don't doubt you heard harshness in the prototype you heard. Just like ivanpino and sdurani focused on what they didn't like, you and Nuance did the same.

As for the tweeters, I absolutely believe there is a difference between the dome and the ribbon. Do I dislike the dome as much as you do? No. If you heard the Salk dome, would you post about it like you did the Ascend dome?

These threads are very interesting in how information/thoughts get presented, and what doesn't get presented because it would make the favorite brand look inferior.

Originally Posted by TJHUB

Fair enough. I get your point.

I wouldn't hesitate to comment negatively about the Salk dome. Why would you think I wouldn't? Every person that has PM'd or emailed me seems to end up with the ribbon tweeters for some reason when they buy Salk's. Merrymaid was supposed to buy the dome version, but he's an Ascend "fanboy". Why "fanboy"? Ask him if he has ANY other speaker brand littered through his home. I at least have other brands in my house. Is he objective? NOPE!

I can be honest and state that my Salk's aren't everything I want from a speaker. I'm just waiting to hear anything I like better. And I can assure you when I do, I'll be getting them (if I can afford them).

Originally Posted by cschang

Hard to make allegations towards me, stir the waters, and then ask those you fired upon to sweep it under the rug and forget about it, but fair enough, consider it done.

And, I would like to know what set you off, especially if it was from me, so I can clarify and/or apologize.

Originally Posted by Nuance

I made no allegations, Curtis. I simply stated you are automatically more biased because you are vested in Ascend Acoustic a lot more than I am Salk Sound.

Originally Posted by Nuance

A few years back I hadn't even heard of Salk Sound and you were already moderating the forums for Ascend, back when the original Sierra was their latest and greatest. When Salk was originally suggested to me in the journey thread I checked out the website but glazed over it and passed them by, forgetting them. Why? I don't recall. I then heard them under blind conditions the very first time I ever auditioned them, and I was tricked because I didn't even know they were a part of the six speaker listening session. It was love at first sound, and it grew on me and nagged at me until I quneched it by purchasing my own custom pair; the very first pair of Salk SongTower's with ribbon tweeters. They were better than I even imagined. Anyway, my point is I love my Salk's because they blew my mind, and under completely unbiased conditions. The manufacturer and man behind them had nothing to do with why I bought them, although since hearing them for the first time I've learned how great Jim and Dennis really are. His (their) customer service still has not been bested by anyone I've dealt with.

Originally Posted by Nuance

So, you see, it was not my intent to throw fuel on the fire you call "rivalry;" there is no ugliness here. Instead, I was just pointing out why it is I go around recommending both Salk and Ascend, and why I assume you do not (I've never seen you do so). If the Ascends handily beat the Salk's at the GTG, I will likely sell the latter and purchase the former. For me, it's all about the sound. If that is not a fair assessment of how you come across on these forums, and of the differences between you and I (besides our taste in speakers), I apologize.

Originally Posted by Nuance

With that said, I am confident the Salk's will hold their own based on what I heard at our GTG's, regardless of the upgraded crossover. After all, if you stated Dennis claimed the redesigned crossover and the different choice in woofers didn't make much difference, then how could a slight crossover tweak? I will stay as open minded, objective and unbiased as possible, but I'll likely not publicize my impressions due to previous reactions. I will, however, certainly share them privately with those that are interested, especially you, Curtis. In fact, I really do hope you'll make the trip and attend the event; that way what I am thinking in my head won't get lost in translation while typing on these stupid forums. Right now it's looking like late October for the event date.

Originally Posted by Ascend

Guys,

Are we done yet? Might I strongly recommend that we keep this thread about the new Sierra Towers?

I am receiving angry email in response to certain posts claiming obvious marketing of a competing brand in this thread. Regardless of the reason behind these posts, it is being viewed as marketing and as an agenda driven attempt to derail the thread. That is how these posts are being viewed by many and I strongly suggest that this back and forth bickering simply end right now.

That said, I have had many requests to post a picture of what the RAAL ribbon tweeter version looks like so for those interested, please see attached.

I hope this thread can get back on track.

Originally Posted by cschang

I have a vested interest because I am a volunteer moderator?

Originally Posted by cschang

I think is is great that you feel that way, but why can't Ascend owners feel the same way about Ascend, their products, and service?

Originally Posted by cschang

You were pointing out that you recommend both brands? I clearly missed that. Was it something that I had to read between the lines?
Yes...I have seen you recommend Ascends, but not nearly like you do Salks. Recommending another brand does not prove unbiasness(is that word?). I actually think our tastes are more similar than different.

Originally Posted by cschang

The bolded statement above is biased and not of opened mind. I just stated what I was told, not my opinion in regards to the new driver. BTW, it wasn't Dennis that stated that. Did Dennis say it makes a difference in imaging? You reading into my posts things that I didn't state, or even infer, shows a bias. I have no opinion on the matter other than what I heard during the comparison.

Originally Posted by cschang

What's interesting is that no Ascend owner has done as much to dispute or claim unbias or superiority in the Salk thread. Once we had any kind of a post that can be remotely deemed as derogatory towards a Salk product or owners of Salk product(I am still unclear as to what happened), we have you and TJ here to claim me/we are a biased bunch and dispute our/my opinions, even when they seem to coincide with your own.

Originally Posted by Ascend

Guys,

Are we done yet? Might I strongly recommend that we keep this thread about the new Sierra Towers?

I am receiving angry email in response to certain posts claiming obvious marketing of a competing brand in this thread. Regardless of the reason behind these posts, it is being viewed as marketing and as an agenda driven attempt to derail the thread. That is how these posts are being viewed by many and I strongly suggest that this back and forth bickering simply end right now.

That said, I have had many requests to post a picture of what the RAAL ribbon tweeter version looks like so for those interested, please see attached.

I hope this thread can get back on track.