Originally Posted by neoshredder27
So you want them to raise their black levels from the start to be fair to the competition?
They are being fair by giving you a good deal on black levels from the start and the long period until it rises. Think how much their tv's cost (exception is VT25) compared to LCD and LED's with similar quality.
Yes, because the majority of people don't want a set that only has deep black levels for a few months. If you don't notice rising black levels on your set then you're lucky and it shouldn't affect you anyway. It's unfair to the competition because the competition put out sets with black levels that don't change over the course of their life. Panasonic cheats by misrepresenting the black level to sell at a higher price. This in turn is also unfair to the customer, but most are unknowingly paying for what they think are blacker blacks despite the fact that they could've gotten comparable overall PQ for much cheaper when you figure on the real black level. I'm sorry, but I don't think avs members want "a good deal until it rises". I think they want black levels that remain consistent over the course of the panel's life so they can get a good indication of how it will look several years out.
The notion that black level rental requiring you to buy a new set every couple years just to maintain the PQ you're used to is nonsensical and very irresponsible. There are limited natural resources, both for energy and for manufacturing. If you want to upgrade your set every several years, that's your choice and your money, but for a company to engineer their sets to try and artificially induce that behavior is unacceptable, especially when they have the technical expertise to avoid it. Especially while misrepresenting the black levels to their customers.
You need to understand what black level is and the reason it rises. It rises because the FINAL black level value on the Panasonics are the real value. Normally, a voltage increase is necessary in order to ensure that all pixels are firing properly. The difference is that other manufacturers design their sets so that they maintain a standard image quality over the course of their life. Panasonic decided to play with the voltages at the start of the set's life to artificially make the panels darker during that period. The real difference is that the other manufacturers are choosing to be honest about black levels and, instead of charging you more for temporary black levels, are increasing the voltage in such a way that the black level stays constant.
Originally Posted by chasingfiction
I am curious about the starting Samsung black level readings. D-Nice says that he has seen them to be comparable to starting Panasonic levels yet CNET and Cleveland Plasma's readings seem to indicate that Panasonic still has the highest starting readings and that even after the rise they are higher than the competition. D-Nice has said that this might be b/c they are measuring them with the Cinema Smooth on but according to CNET the numbers were pretty high even before Cinema Smooth.
I guess I would still think that Panasonic was the best bang for your buck if the black levels were about the same or lower on Panasonics after the rise as they are on other brands.
D-Nice, do you think that Panasonic will still have this problem in 2011?
We'll know the situation with 2011 plasmas when 2011 plasmas come out. People have been speculating since the start of 2009 that 2009, 2010, 2011 etc... panels would finally use kuro tech and fix the nagging problems. That has not been the case. So far 3D seems to be the only major thing they've "improved" in a serious way.
Regarding the measurements, it's been gone over ad nauseum - cnet (and I believe Cleveland Plasma) had Cinema Smooth enabled, which causes the black level to elevate while it's engaged. Disabling that returns it back to normal.
Also, I'm curious if that Norton article stated what light meter was being used to get those measurements on MLL rise.