Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 78

Any pics of the poured ones

Here's the picture of the poured SEOS. Not very good photos.

Keep in mind, these are the very first ones they did. I have a pretty strong light shining on the front, it's more of a matte finish than the photo shows.





You can see air bubbles in the back, they said these were quick trials and probably wouldn't be in the final product. BUT, they waveguides are so thick that it really wouldn't matter anyway because at least the front is smooth. They really do feel as hard as stone and thicker than they look in the photo. If I dropped one on my countertop, I'd be worried about the countertop, not the waveguide.





I only had 2 samples sent to me. This one has zero flaws on the front. The other one I got had some slight marks on the front corner. Looked like a little sand paper was used right before spraying it black. From 2' away, you can't see it. Then again, that was the very first one poured, so it probably wasn't a normal thing. It still looked okay anyway. The front mounting flange seems perfectly flat, even though some would slightly recess them into the baffle anyway.

Preliminary pricing. These were estimates given to me, but I suppose they could change slightly. I asked them to go over the numbers again and let me know. They're all at least 50% less, some are significantly cheaper. I'll post the fiberglass prices against these a little later because I have to go out tonight.

SEOS - Models:

6: $29
8: $34
10: $39
12: $49
15: $59
18: $69


They don't have molds made for all of them yet. But they said they can get the molds made and start producing in order to have them shipped on the 3rd pallet I'm helping with again.



Later, I'll give updates and photos to the other production method I'm working on.

Well... there would be no worries about extraneous horn vibrations affecting the sound quality. I suppose you'd need to take into consideration the shipping costs of these bulletproof horns. BTW is that the 12? Appox. how much does it weigh?

How easy does it drill?

Prices = WOW

Agreed. I think I'll scrape together the pesos for a quad of 12's when available or after the holidays anyway.

How do those compare on the "knuckle-rap" test, compared to the fiberglas? I kinda like the way they look matte surface and thick-looking. Do you think they'll be strong enough to bear the weight of a big chunk of DE250, or will they need other supports for that?

The 'knuckle rap test' actually hurts your knuckles. They're about 3/8" thick.

I'd say it feels like your tapping on a piece of ceramic or slate tile. Maybe sounds like tapping on one of those old time porcelain sinks or toilets? But of course, this isn't really your typical concrete mixture, so it has a lot of strength and shouldn't crack like tile. But don't worry, after I do some tests, one will get crushed.

The model in the photo is 10" and it weighs 2.5 pounds.

I haven't drilled into it yet, but they said they can make the future ones with screw holes if needed, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Bill, I can bring them out to your house to look at whenever you want, I sent you an email yesterday. The material used in these should be strong enough to hold the heavy compression drivers without any worry.

I also have some interesting compression drivers coming that I'm hoping will test good. If they do, we're going to have some GREAT priced combos in the near future. I'm really getting excited knowing how all of this could turn out soon.

And what about this.........

What exactly *is* this material?

It sounds like a composite of some kind; if so, what is the matrix and what is the reinforcement?

From what you've described so far, I'm a bit concerned about brittleness, so I'm interested in what the tests show.

Thanks, Erich.

One thing you won't have to worry about is being brittle. I've already smacked the heck out of one with the handle of a big screw driver. But don't worry, I'll put it through the paces. I'm going to beat one until it gives in.

As mentioned earlier, If I dropped this thing, I'd be more worried about what it hit, not the waveguide.

I can't tell you everything that's in it, but I can say it has some resin if that helps you know it's not brittle.

Nice work Erich, the new pricing on the pourables, and therefore better accessibility to the masses, is what he seemed to be all about. Surely he would have been busy in the ZilchLab with all these WG's, I think it's a great tribute.

Are these poured concrete models being shipped from poland?

LBDiver, that model is actually a plastic one I'm working on. It will be even cheaper if all goes well.


Omegaslast, yes, the poured models are from Poland just like the fiberglass ones are.

Why bother with the ceramic at all? They're priced great (see my comment above), but if the plastic is even cheaper, why not just jump straight to the plastic and forget about the ceramic. The fibreglass are grade A units for those that want that, and plastic will appeal to the budget guys (me). Where is the need for the ceramic ones? Won't making 3 different models increase the cost overall?

I am not convinced that the fiberglass waveguides are better than the cast versions. The only negative that I can see would be their weight when compared to fiberglass but that is only a problem when you are shipping them. Other than that they look to be non-resonant, durable and finished well. When the votes are in, I bet the cast variant might be considered superior to the fiberglass equivalent and that's a big deal considering that they cost half as much!
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

The Fibreglass ones are very expensive. Their prices contribute to what deters many people from high end waveguides. Yes they're still cheaper than an official Geddes waveguide for example, but $300 on waveguides + $300 on tweeters isn't inexpensive.

If i'm correct, the plastic is cheap, but the mold won't be. So only the SEOS-12 is likely to be available in plastic, right?

These ones I'm assuming are available in multiple sizes at a good price.

Isnt the SEOS-12 going to be the only plastic one?

If you go back quite a few pages you'll see the price quotes to do plastic. 1 model for over $25k. I think it was $28k for the SEOS-12, no other model. Injection molds are very.......very expensive.

The poured models are at least least 1/2 the price of fiberglass, some closer to 1/3 the price. And we can do more than one design.


I think all of them have their pluses and minuses. IF I can get the SEOS-12 done in plastic, it would allow people to get them for less than the QSC model currently sells for. It's the size most people said they would want. I also think it will be really easy for the average person to mount and use. Very clean edges and hopefully I can get some gaskets cut to match them as well.


The poured models are very solid and hopefully all sizes will be available. Pricing is decent and cheaper than fiberglass. I'm not too worried about the extra shipping weight because there isn't much difference between 5 lbs and 15 lbs when dealing with FedEx. My guess is that shipping will be nearly identical because the box is fairly large compared to the weight, which means you have to go by package dimensions anyway. They won't ship a huge box with only 1 pound in it for the price of a small 1 pound box. Most of the fiberglass ones were light weight, but because of the box size, it could be either 3 pounds in that box or 15 and the price will be the same.


The fiberglass ones no doubt will be the top of the line product. You can pick your color and they have a very nice gloss finish, etc. I'd say they were the luxury edition and certainly have their place.

If I was building for my livingroom, and wanted the best looking waveguide out there, the extra price for the fiberglass models will still appeal to me.

The poured samples I have are not as clean around the edges as the fiberglass models are. But that could be because they were samples.

If they were being recessed just a little, it wouldn't matter anyway. Hopefully I won't go completely broke before finding a company to cut us some matching gaskets!

Erich before the pallet fills I want to order 3 poured 12s I don't know where to find the GB page

And where do you find out all the info on each of these Seos designs?

I have been following this thread briefly but forgot what is what. Is there a link or something?

I want to make sure pricing is dead on before taking orders. But it should be very close. And I know I have some double thick shipping boxes that a lady friend keep for me from her work. Well, they'll be okay for the 12's and under.

Chrapladm, the whole thread is stuffed full of info. I've got some stuff on my site, but not enough to justify worrying about. I'll try my best to get all the info put in one place as soon as I can.





What sizes should I have them make immediately? SEOS-12 and SEOS-15?

Also do what the experts think would be a good surround

I've been following this thread for a long time, but haven't really had anything to contribute. I would first like to say thanks for the huge effort, Erich. You must be crazy, but it's the good kind!

I would be interested in two of the poured SEOS-15s. I would be happy to pay up front if need be. I already have my two DE-250s!

I do have a question, though, for the more general audience. Has anyone tried the Dayton PA-380? Are you happy with it? It seems like a great deal.

Thanks again,
John

Yes SEOS-12 and SEOS-15 seem to be what most people want. seos-15 for me personally as i have TD15M on the way (... well i think at least! no updates on that...). I think cocostan wants seos-18 as he plans to mount it on top of a woofer box? If i did that id probably want some nice looking fiberglass one though. That would look very cool

I want a pair of SEOS 8 instead of doing this:

One piece baffles are being worked on. The only issue is actually attaching them to the rest of the speaker box.

SEOS-12 of course......