Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 134

Erich, i sent you PM. Did you read it ?

Yes, side by side. What you say makes sense. I want more efficient anyways.

I really want to figure out what woofer to use in a 12". I have 3 ts12m's ordered, but who knows how long that will take. Any suggestions? I would run these with subs and will build them LCR.

I have seen the horizontal directivity chart on Erich's SEOS sales page. Has the vertical been measured?

At what freq does SOES 12 start to lose vertical directivity? What is the nominal vertical directivity of the SEOS horns? 45, 50, 60?

Thanks!
Rich

Thanks Tytte71. Large damped rear chamber sounds intriguing!

I did measure the 475 in QSC with mic only 1/8" from the CD throat screen, the dip at 8200 disappeared, so it is just related to the QSC horn.

Since you have TD12's on the way, I'd build for 12" woofers. Try either of Bwaslo's designs, the Designer12 or Deltalite 12. They are well done and will give you excellent performance. When your TD12's show up you can swap them in and use a different crossover. There is a chance it will only require a modification of the crossover but that is speculation at this point.


http://larchive.avsforum.com/www.avs....php?t=1369780

This thread has detailed measurements courtesy of Bwaslo and Erich. Vertically, it holds pattern of 60-70 deg from about 2khz narrowing to about 40deg at around 10khz.

Horizontally I'd say it is about 80-90deg from about 900hz and up.


It is likely the combination of the QSC and 475. Not all phase plugs propogate the same wave shape and this can cause nulls such as this. I've not seen this issue with the QSC and other CDs such as the CP380, 4550 or DE250.

Wayne poopoo'd the SEOS

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/888123-post20.html

http://audioroundtable.com/forum/ind...sg&goto=72747&

and ? poo pooing competition is normal .

Hey Cookieattk,
I tried to reach you last week regarding your fv15-hp. If you still have it for sale can you pm me.

Keep us posted to the reality of lead times for the AE 12s.....

That is funny. I'd like to see his critique and comparison of how the H290C is "superior in every way". It certainly seems odd when he posts measurements that are frankly far inferior to the SEOS-12. Of course, his measurements have the disclaimer that the lack of a baffle mount is inducing the waistbanding he sees around 1.7khz. Although this is true, it would behoove him to post what he feels are representative measurements and then make the claim that his are superior. I understand he prefers a 50deg vertical pattern over a 60deg but frankly that is splitting hairs, especially if you can maintain wide nulls. Beyond that, the SEOS design is well documented in its spec's whereas Wayne has not published the profile or any other specifications of his H290C.

I respect Wayne and I've learned much from his approaches and papers. IMO he brought reasonable horn speakers back to the home user. I know his work inspired Zilch. With that said, I can't help but feel that he feels a bit threatened by the SEOS and before that the QSC. He basically existed without competition in the DIY market before. I still forward people to him who are looking for a more established design with PCB's available.

Although he was being quoted from a private email, which IMO is a no-no, I'd like to see him either retract that statement or support it with facts and detailed opinions. I know he is an AVS'er and quite capable of doing this.

This is not meant as a slam on Wayne and may a dumb question but what is the difference between his H290C and the H290S: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-555? They look the same to me.

Why do you immediately think Wayne did wrote that in the first place ?

I don't see him writing that stuff but some guy who claims that Wayne sent him mail. Wouldn't jump to conclusions that easy.

Regards

We didn't really use a baffle mount either.

Okay, CRAZY NEWS UPDATE.

I've been emailing the shipping company in Seattle for the past couple weeks and all is good. Of course you would assume that after you pay, they let the container go and schedule a delivery time. Pretty simple stuff.

I got a phone call a few minutes ago and the woman asked when a good time would be for delivery.....exciting news of course. She was joking around a little bit, so I said "Yesterday would be a great delivery time."

She said "I've never liked going back and working on past Sundays, but how about early this afternoon." Obviously I think she's still joking and I ask if they're going to fly the container directly to my shop on a plane. She says "No, the container is at our Cincinnati facility already."


Turns out that it was shipped from Seattle last week and it's already here in Cincinnati! No one told me that!


So I'm going to try and scramble some guys together by this afternoon to help unload all of this in the short time slot they give. The problem is that all the employees are already out mowing or mulching, so we'll see how it goes.


As mentioned earlier, if it's not done today, they charge $75 per day for storage. But if it's not unloaded in their time frame, it's $65 per hour for the driver to wait. And if they drop off the container and leave it for a couple days, it's $125.


I'd let them drop it off, but up to this point I'm sure they use cranes to move these containers and keep them level. But if they drop them off, my guess is that they'll use a truck with a roll back system. Well, I'm sure it's all secure, but I'd rather not take that chance of angling the stuff that much. Now if they just leave the trailer and container, then I'd just pay the $125.



Either way, this is exciting news!!!!

I'm waiting on the dispatch to call me back to explain how they drop the container or get an idea how late in the day they can deliver. It would be great to have this done today.

I can't get there in time, or I would help.

I love it when you get a surprise and stuff you're eagerly awaiting arrives early.

Erich, is there a local business that would be willing to help you with a forklift? I've had the good forutune of businesses lending a helping hand when in need.

Wow!!! This is great news that the stuff is here and practically on your doorstep. You'll be running around like a madman today! Good luck!

-Nate

(Eagerly awaits pictures of buttloads of boxes)

PassingInterest, I know you would help!

This is certainly some crazy unexpected stuff.

I just got off the phone with them and she said they can leave the container and the truck chassis at my shop. That obviously keeps everything perfectly level. No doubt it was originally packed okay, but you never know how US Customs will leave it, and I don't want the container angled. No problem though.

It's $125 for the container to sit a couple days. Of course they charge $20 extra per day for the chassis to sit there. Which basically means I'm not going to let the thing sit for more than 1 day. But at least it will give me time this evening to unload it all without rushing to get employees to come back mid day.


I've got a small and a large skid steer (a.k.a 'Bobcat') with pallet forks. But they didn't load the stuff on pallets. I guess pallets don't let you pack things in as well, so they put the stuff in cardboard boxes and stack those. So this is all hand unpacking!

And yes, there's a lot of things coming.......I just haven't said anything yet!

FWIW, I believe I've seen a couple of posts where Wayne refers to the SEOS12 as a 120 degree horn, so that might be part of what he's talking about -- too wide a pattern for his liking. Looking only at the autotech graphs, 120 degrees seems accurate. bwaslo's actual measurements look more like 90. I forget if that difference was ever explained.

*Would* be best if Wayne elaborated with measurements/comparisons, though.

it is a 90 degree waveguide, definitely. By both design and measurement.

Nice!

The truck driver is on his way. Should be here in less than 30 minutes!

YES! You've got to post some victory pics when you get all the stuff laid out at your shop!

Uhhhhh wow, this is crazy.

BWaslo said I was insane, and now I believe him. There's a lot of stuff here. I'll explain later.

I opened up the rear doors of the container, laughed at myself for a second, climbed into the back, and laughed again. Now I'm pondering where to put all this stuff.......hundreds of boxes.

I've got the space, I just need to move some equipment and flat packs around. It's more boxes than I actually thought.

This is funny stuff. Man, I really am crazy.......and today it finally hit me! You guys probably knew it all along and just didn't tell me.

We need pictures of the insanity!

Yes, crazy, but its good crazy.

I can't even get up in the back to get pictures yet!

Here I was thinking I could put a good dent in unloading this by the time the employees started trickling in from work later today. Not a chance.


I just called in for some ground support. The cavalry is on it's way. Well, some of it anyway.

On an unrelated note, it appears that AudioKarma.org is GONE!?
Sure hope someone backed-up all the Econowave thread.

It's still there and running. There appears to be a DNS issue depending on what your ISP is, I can get to it on one ISP, not the other.