Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 149

I'm going to try and get some baffles and possible box designs started this weekend. The CNC guy has the recess programmed for the SEOS-12 and ready to go. Prices should be pretty darn good.


Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Dayton Designer Series woofer

12" Eminence Deltalite

The other 12" Eminence woofer

A&E 12" woofers

JBL 12" woofer

FaitalPro 12" woofer.

Any others, please let me know.


Unlike other woofer sizes, it seems the 12" has a closer standard on diameters.


It probably makes sense to start off with just 3-4 box sizes, but keep the baffle the same dimensions for the 12" models for now. That way you pick the woofer, and match it with the enclosure size you want. What 3-4 box sizes should we shoot for?

1 cu ft
1.25 cu ft
1.75 cu ft
2 cu ft
2.25 cu ft
2.5 cu ft
???

I'm sending enclosures and parts to the other speaker designers early next week, so it's crunch time. I don't think it will take them very long to iron out a design. Once that happens, I'll look into at least getting the PCB's for the crossover. I was told that can be done pretty fast and at a good price. Maybe a forum member can charge a little money per crossover and make some up if I can get all the parts?

YES! AE 12"...You are awesome Erich!

I will let you know the designers name on that one by middle of next week.

I think I'm going to send the other designer the JBL 12". Still debating on the FaitalPro woofer though.

Thanks for the warning Erich.

I'll wait for your 'secret designer' to cook up something with the AE 12".

I don't mind sitting here for a while just staring at the waveguides.

What no love for the JBL 15"

Anyways wasn't there talk at one time about possibly offering just the baffle for various driver cutouts?. For example, I have a limitation on the depth of the speaker that will fit behind my screen wall and most of these designs being thrown around would not work for me, which means I would not be in the market for a complete flat pack, not to mention the shipping cost. Now if you offered a pre-cut baffle w/ maybe rabbeted edges and throw in a PCB, now you're talking. Also anyone with a straight edge, circular saw and clamps could make the rest of the enclosure.

I put the DNA-150 in the SEOS12



Not bad for the money. I think I'll actually use this with the silver flute w20rc-08.

My SEOS-12's and 36' CD's arrived - very impressive quality.

Thanks, Erich!

Looking forward to the designers input and specifics. What compression driver will be used? I've been holding off purchasing the cd's until this design is revealed. Thanks!

Okay, one of the designers gave me permission to mention his name. It's going to be Dennis Murphy. I think this speaker will be very good.


http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/

http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html


I'm fairly confident he will be designing around the JBL 12". If anyone has other recommendations, let me know. If not, that's what I'll get. I will be making the enclosure this weekend and shipping it to him.

Please help recommend an enclosure size.

I wouldn't hold off too long. The higher end speakers will certainly be using the DNA-360.

Thanks. What will the baffle size be? I'm trying to get as compact as possible, 15"x22"x12" or so, tuned to ~50-60Hz, with a low f3. I was looking at the 4550's with the extra extension, but it probably doesn't matter. I'll probably order the 360's when I see a design, enclosure, xo scematic or completed xo for the high end versions. Any special pre-4th of July teasers to share?

Hey Eric,
I think Dennis's involvement in your project will help quite a bit to iron out a great crossover design for those like me who are still struggling to understand what (in my opinion) is the most important aspect of speaker design (crossovers).
Dennis has been involved in the design of some killer speakers. My only issue is that I will have AE drivers instead of JBL. . My vote would be for him designing two crossovers using JBL and AE drivers. These seem to be the two driver types that people will want to use in their higher end SEOS designs. Hopefully Dennis wouldn't mind doing so.
Thanks again Eric for making it possible for more community members to be able to learn/build great speakers without breaking the bank. Your efforts are beyond amazing.

The other speaker designer will be working with an A&E woofer.

There will be quite a few designs with many different woofers and CD's and price ranges.

Hi Erich:
Choosing a box size is kind of the designer's prerogative but if you need to start somewhere, 64L looks good to me. Build the box and let the designer or even the end user choose the vent/tuning frequency. I simulated a range of tunings in 64L. You can tune as high as 75 hz for an 80 hz crossover down to 40 Hz where you rely on boundary support or equalization to pull the low end up to flat. Box tuning will only affect the crossover to the sub, which I would handle with a MiniDSP. The more critical mid to CD will be unaffected. I hope you can read the fine print on the chart that gives the tunings.

The box could be as small as 32L for an 80 Hz crossover...



Jack

Received my 3x matte SEOS-12s and 3x 360 CDs yesterday, thanks Erich!

Excited to get the 2226Js too, although once I have them, I won't be a position to build yet, as I've either got to start climbing uphill on learning speaker design, or hope that a suitable design will magically materialize from some kind soul. Maybe I can at least determine appropriate box size, get going on cabinet construction, and wait on the crossover design.

I've been listening to my Philharmonic 2s for a week. You could sell them for around ~8K and I don't think anyone would bat an eye (fit 'n finish aside).... they resolve incredible detail with a huge soundstage, and do dynamics pretty damn well for 84db/w/m speakers. But the best part is how correct they sound tonally.

As for a box, I like ~1.9 cu ft @ ~46.5hz (F3 = 92hz, F6 = 45hz)
What's nice is that the AE TD12X can be used in this same box size (sealed) with an F3 of 90hz. (or vented @ 34hz)

Anyways more important than the internal volume, i'd say is a nice big roundover/bevel/chamfer
Edited by Eternal Velocity - 6/30/12 at 11:43am

Today I got the flat pack samples for the SEOS-12 with the 12" Designer Series and the SEOS-12 with the Eminence 12" Deltalite. 15" x 22" x 16" deep. The cabinet comes in right around 2.15 cu ft and has a double thick baffle with one vertical brace and one horizontal shelf brace.

I don't have a price for the cabinet yet. But one pricing issue is that 2 cabinets can't be cut from one sheet, so there's left over wood. That normally causes the price to stay around the same as a cabinet that uses a whole sheet of wood. But 2 extra baffles could be cut on the same sheet and sold for about $12 - $15 each to keep the price of the 2.15 cu ft box lower.

Cut separately, the baffles would only cost around $12, not counting a shipping box. That's recessed waveguides and woofers with a roundover on each side.

Do you think the baffles would make sense to get done? They're 15" wide and 22" tall.

Very cool, Erich.

I'm a complete novice, but I was getting 2.0 cu ft as the target volume for the 2512. Does .15 matter that much?

As far as dimensions, I was hoping for a little taller, but Mayhem was advising me to go shorter and deeper.

Nice Erich.

Curious. Why double thick baffle? It's only a 12" mid.

Could we cut two cabinets from one sheet? Or maybe 3 cabs from 2 sheets with the single baffle? Btw, are these 3/4" birch?

In think the pre-cut baffle might be convenient for someone lacking skills and/or tools.

double thick is good i have 2 enclosures that are made from lowes birch with 2 braces inside the resonate @ 95db badly, over building the boxs should be a requirement for ht since u will be having sub 20hz content at high levels.

erich what are the exact cutout sizes on the blank baffles ?

I think it probably makes sense with this double baffle to make it say 30" high and people can cut to suit their build. This size works for me for sure, but I know others were looking for taller cabs.

The seos and woofer spacing would be a constant and the baffle width works well and will keep most of the crossovers similar for BDC.

Just a thought on makin it taller to work for more designs while being somewhat easy to cut them down to another length.

Edit-just thinking outlook, but honestly a baffle with just the seos12 recess and cutout would be great too! Tha teems to be the hardest part to get right as far as the enclosure construction.

It's for the 12" Deltalite and the 12" DS woofer. Both fit. I think the outer diameter was just a little under 12.5" and the through hole was 11".



There will be other boxes, this is just the first one for Bwaslo's first design.

Let me know what you guys want so I can get things figured out. It would make more sense to cut some taller and some shorter. No reason to ship a 30"+ tall piece of wood if the end user is going to cut it down to 21".

The main thing is to let me know what makes sense to get made. When I post something new, someone says "I was hoping for X." But no one ever really says *exactly* what 'X' is until after something is made up.


I think baffle dimensions for a 12" can go as small as 14.25" x 21".

The waveguide and woofer don't need to be recessed right? Just for looks?

As far as the roundover, what do you guys think about leaving this up to the end user?

Heck yeah, a nice 1" chamfer would look pretty mean imo.

Sounds good to me. I was hoping for an extra thick baffle so I could do a 3/4" roundover. I just did that with some statements and it looks very nice, plus it's easy on the veneer.

One nice thing about having the baffles already having the big round over: big round over router bits are pricey! (but big round over to me means 1 - 1 1/2")

That said, the 15" JBLs may not be one of the more popular choices, so I figure I'll have to make my own boxes / baffles - which is fine, I like woodworking anyway.

Deeper cabinets rather than tall and extremely shallow is more my speed. Getting the backwall as far from the woofer as possible is ideal, imo.

My concern with what you are describing with just the two braces is it won't have nearly enough bracing and you'll hear the cabinet resonances pretty easily. Might not be a big deal with the designer series woofer as I've not heard it yet... might be a bit of an issue with eminence woofer based on the test mules we've built and listened to on the ewave "experiment".... definitely will be an issue with the AE based on my listening with TD12X.... it's so clean you hear every anomaly... initial listening with JBL 2206H is you will likely hear it there as well...

As I said in my email to you, since Dennis is going to do the design with the JBL, that's likely to be a popular option because he knows his way around a crossover and has a very good ear. So this box size is likely to be quite popular and work for a number of designs. I'm likely going to build at least two pairs of them myself since I have the woofers here already from a previous project I never started... they'll be perfect Christmas gifts. Everyone is getting speakers from me for Christmas this year The bonus is it helps clear stuff out of my closets Besides, I've got to use up all these SEOS waveguides I bought somehow I'll likely get a few of these flatpacks to save me time (newborns are a time vortex, man hehehe so shortening build times and taking short cuts is what I'm all about these days) and I'll likely need to get some compression drivers from you as well once Dennis publishes his design....

for the baffles, I think cutting a few 30 inch high baffles might be prudent, even though most folks could work with the shorter ones... certainly shipping a 22" tall baffle is going to be a whole lot easier than getting the boxes for 30 inch tall ones... once you go beyond 24 inches doesn't it get a premium on shipping as an odd size/shape? Don't quote me on that...

Box sizes for woofers.... I vote again for something for the AE TD15M. Based on how many people asked me to take over their group buy order alone when I posted I was interested in some TD15 woofers, there's going to be a ton of folks with these woofers in the next few months (assuming the steel from China is good and John is now busily machining and building out group buy orders). LTD02 previously modeled some stuff here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/4350#post_22160832 I've seen John previously mention that the TD15M likes a 5 cubic foot box when you go vented if you can deal with the size... 19 inch wide baffle with a big round over.... say 30-32 inches tall??? With a double baffle, you'll likely need to go to 21 inches deep total with a 30 inch height to get ~5.4 cubic foot. with all the bracing and driver/waveguide displacement, that will likely net out the 5 cubic feet.Going to 32 inch height sucks the depth in an inch or so. Make it a 48 inch tall floorstander and it doesn't need to be nearly as deep... choosing between "bookshelf" 30-32 inch height versus 48 inch tall floorstander becomes an issue for the CNC guys and what fits on a sheet or two of MDF... I'd buy a set from you to save me the cutting if you make this box since I have a pair of TD15Ms coming that I'm thinking are also going to make killer Christmas gifts for someone in particular.... for comparison purposes, I have a pair of Harbeth Monitor 40.1s here that are 17 wide, 30 tall, and 15+ deep and they blend into the room surprisingly well... better than I thought they would given their odd "bookshelf" height... even the wife doesn't really complain about them... and she likes to complain about everything when it comes to my audio stuff....

In terms of cabinet depth, I would think most users have projector screens that would hide their front stage. Therefore, users could be limited by their room size as to how much space they have behind their screen to play with. With this in mind, it can be important to consider cabinet depth. It would be great to see a cabinet depth of about 10" (adding the extra volume width wise). Just a thought!!!

Yup, and also need to take into account that these should really be aggressively toed in, which will eat up a little more depth. I wouldn't go as shallow as 10", but maybe 14" would be about as deep as I could go.