Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 152

Would that be Mr. Bagby?

Excellent news Erich! Will Jeff have the SEOS design at MWAF? bwaslo mentioed he is taking his design to the festival along with the DIY Synergy "coSyne". Man, I wish I could go!

Well, I'll have the SEOS speaks there if sir Erich gets the new cabinets over here for me to put the stuff into them.... hint,hint

Has has been said more than once, this can be addressed by having Fb sufficiently below XO.

Then the extra phase shift caused by the port is less significant compared to the phase shift caused by the XO.

Yes, things have been in the works for longer than I let on here.


My day did not turn out as planned. I was hoping to go out to BWaslo's house earlier.......I got caught up at work when I shouldn't have. Stinks. I just got in at 6:15. Now I have to glue up one more new box.

Huh, awesome. Perhaps when he gets a design out, it'll bring some respect for horns/waveguides over there. Nice one Erich. You're making history here

Indeed that is the trick, but as you lower the tuning farther outside the useful pass band of the speaker you forfeit more of the advantage afforded with ported to begin with, as im sure your aware.

This would also not be the case if you lowered it to the point of overlap with the Fb of the subs which would produce more problems......

perhaps Jeff would be interested in the SB34NRXL75-8 i mentioned earlier - he's a very vocal proponent of sb drivers ;P


I ;;love;; what Bill's done so far... especially the lack of fear of high parts counts. Too often perfectly capable DIYers get caught up in the low parts count game with budget designs. Save the money on steel laminates etc if you must, but keep the response and phase tracking nice ;D

*New and Improved* CNC test boxes are completed. I'll take photos today.

Yes, even though it's been over 100+ degrees for a few days now, I put them together! 104 degrees yesterday, 103-106 today. That's toasty. But we've been in the mid to high 90's for quite some time now, so no reason to wait any longer. mdf dust sticks really well to sweating arms and legs.


The new boxes increase the bracing. There's now 2 horizontal shelf braces and one vertical. So I believe bracing is about every 6".


They also have a new type of vertical brace that I shall call the 'E-Brace"!

Of course, this must pass the difficult Bwaslo inspection for enclosure design.

You are not human, you're a machine.

I think "nutcase" might be more accurate. Erich has more energy than some power plants.

Here's some good news and some bad news. But first let me say that I can't recall the last time I've ever dropped anything, as in anything at all. I wish there was some way to blame this on Bwaslo, but after thinking about it all night, I can't seem to pin this on him. And that's a real shame!


I finished gluing up the CNC'ed 2 cu ft test boxes and went to Bwaslo's house to help wire everything up......another 104 degree day......so we worked inside. Woofer sits in nice, waveguide sits in nice, binding posts, crossover, and then Mr. Bwaslo brings out the insulation made of denim (there's a reason I mention that). I rip the insulation into pieces with my hands and stuff it in the boxes.

After both boxes were complete, we decided to listen to his other DIY horns first because they were already wired up. They sounded great! Next up, my freshly cut 65lb mdf boxes with nice sanded sharp edges along the bottom. I picked one up, moved a little.....yep....it slipped. Tried to grab it, and pushed my leg forward to try and slow it down as it fell. The top of the box went forward and the sharp back edge slid down my shin and peeled the skin back like a banana peel! And of course the back top corner hit the floor. That's and end over end fall! It was by luck that his wife had her earphones on upstairs and didn't hear anything!

So anyway, the good news is that the waveguide proved strong enough with only 4 screws and a 5lb compression driver mounted on the back to handle a significant fall at a funky angle that would have put a lot of pressure on just a couple of the screws. The bad news is that the skin on my leg can not! And the box now has a dent that I must fix. But no damage to the components. I suppose this was a good test for the waveguide and I donated some of my skin to prove it.

Luckily (I guess), I'm a landscaper and my shins get beat to heck all the time and constantly have wounds. So it just doesn't bother me that much. This one looked worse than it actually was. Normally I just grab onto the flapping skin and rip it off while it still burns a bit. But my leg was at an angle and the edge of the box must have cut in deeper as it fell. Basically I couldn't rip off all the skin and took scissors to it last night when I got home.

Before I left Bwaslo's home, we were picking up all the tools and stuff. I kept noticing that my hands had a strange slippery feel to them. Like after you use silicone caulking. Mr. Bwaslo wondered if it was due to me working the denim insulation with my hands. The drop really bothered me because I really don't drop anything. So today I decided to open one of the speakers up and get out the insulation. Sure enough, my hands now feel the same slippery way. It must be the glue type material that holds the denim insulation together. I really don't know. Add that to a just sanded mdf box and there's a recipe for a fall.
Edited by Erich H - 7/8/12 at 10:27am

Erich, Ouucccchhhh!!

Hope your leg doesn't hurt as bad as imagined.

Erich literally has some skin in the game now.

Not bad!

Bwaslo's first thoughts were *not* to see if everything was okay.......he took off running to grab his camera phone! Imagine that! Doubt the picture will come out very good though.

Just kidding! Actually he asked if everything was okay before I even noticed the wound. Somehow I did get a cut on my arm and didn't notice that until getting home. I wonder if I can blame that one on Bill?


By the way, there is NO SUCH THING as gauze tape that does not stick to leg hair!!!

Reading that made me cringe. Oh man that's gross. I hope you heal quickly.

Ouch, Erich!

I find that Neosporin works great for growing skin back

I thought about posting a picture of Erich's owee, but then this board would have to be rated NSFL.

Dang, you gotta be careful Eric!

I thought you were going to say normally you just flap it back into place,didn't expect that you tear it off! Quite a vivid description. Hope it heals fast!

Pics or it didn't happen.

It really isn't as bad as it was made out to be. When the skin gets pealed back, I always just rip it off because it's just going to eventually fall off anyway, and I don't want it flapping around or getting stuck on bandages. But it was about 1/8" thick at the bottom and just stretched, so I waited to get home to hack it off.

I told Bwalso that all I needed was some Neosporin and some duct tape! They supplied the Neosporin, but insisted it get some gauze and regular dressing tape.
Edited by Erich H - 7/9/12 at 5:10am

Okay, on with Bwaslo's sweet speaker design. The ones we made up were with the Denovo DNA-360 and the Dayton Designer Series 12" woofer.

These things get quite loud and very clean sounding. I can pick things out in songs that I haven't heard before. Walking back and forth in front of them really does show just how big of a 'sweet spot' they have when toed in properly. Kind of strange really.

What always surprises me is that you don't realize how loud they are until you try and talk to the person next to you. I guess because they're so clean sounding? Not sure.

This design had them in 2 cu ft sealed boxes. So you certainly will need subwoofers. I listened to them at my house for about 2 hours today and they are begging to be ported. But that's because I don't have a subwoofer in my living room and was listening to these full range. Bwaslo did some more calculating and said I could port them in the 2 cu ft box (PE also recommends about the same thing for 2 channel listening). But what he thinks will really shine is around 3.75 cu ft tuned under 30hz for some full range tower speakers. So I will be making some of those to try out. Maybe this week.

These are the first speakers I've had where there's no worry about volume and too much power. Your ears might give out before the speakers do. If I had these crossed at 80hz or so to some subwoofers......man that would be something. This week I will try them in my basement theater. But I also hope to make some floor standers tuned low for 2 channel listeing as well.


Time to set up some type of kit for these bad boys. Bill really created a great speaker using some well priced components. And I do believe this one could be even better in a different cabinet.

Those sound like excellent candidates for 2.5ways if running full range in some floor standers where volume is attainable.....

Sorry about you leg, wish i could un-see that!

So you can add Blood to "Sweat and Tears". You have truly given it all to the cause.

Joking aside, thanks for your never-ending support of DIY. Truly amazing.

And stay healthy!!
Edited by Java - 7/8/12 at 4:45pm

Ahhhhh, cmon Erich, I cut my-self shaving the other day way worse than that, and I was manscaping At least now I am circumcised

Kidding aside you are a maniac psycho when it comes to work ethic, a true DIY legend in the making!

Except that the separate subwoofer system has killed off the full range 2-way. And this killing was for good reason...performance not aesthetics.

TD15X in 80L is Q=0.7 and F3 at 60Hz. The H is similar but in 60L and both are close to where most people would roll off to subs. Apart from size and cost I see no disadvantage, and a number of positives such as better motor.

More importantly, would there be a directivity mismatch between a SEOS12 and TD15X?

Since you broached the subject, a true story:

A couple of weeks ago I was at a wedding talking to one of my eastern cousins.

He related to me his non-Jewish father-in-law's observation about circumcision: "Well, that's optimistic - trimming it before you even know how big it's going to get."

The only issue I see with the TD15X is availability. I know AE is going to stock some of their woofers and the 12's are more readily available. Not sure if that situation is going to change, but I believe John mentioned he was going to try to keep some in stock.