So you can't localize 400hz coming from a subwoofer? And yet i'm incompetent?
Actually, the only person ""prattling"" on at all tends to be yourself, on various fora.
lol. So if the note doesn't exist in a recording, which it very often does not, it's "nonsense" that we don't hear the difference in that note?
Sorry, I'm just INCOMPETENT, because my arguement that spending a significant portion of one's budget a mostly unimportant pair of octaves (sorry, "pair-and-a-half) is convoluted.
If you don't get what someone is saying, the smart thing to do is not respond to it. You don't need multisub bass to reproduce 90% of material.
Besides why should i care how live piano sounds in my room? It certainly will be different from a concet hall.
All i want is that recorded piano is not colored by the room. And if multiple subs get me closer to this goal so be it.
That was not my point. My point was that barring extreme cases, our ears don't actually hear that "room-coloured" piano as "coloured". We adapt to the sound of the room. At least a few - IE Sean Olive - agree that you don't need perfection to get uncolored. Yes there may be improvements to be had - but it's not "invariably". It's case-specific.
Maybe some rooms sound poor in the bass without multisubs and EQ. But that doesn't mean that other rooms can't sound great in the bass without that crap. It's awful conceited, and honestly just clueless, to tell me without hearing my room, that stereo bass can't possibly sound subjectively tight, accurate, and uncolored.
I don't need multisubs. I don't even need one sub as the measured improvements (yes, they do exist) of three sources over two - are minor at best and not regularily meaningfully audible. It's a small enough difference that unless you've got a specific demo material to highlight it, you really won't know if the sub was in the system or not. It's tight enough either way.
It would be NICE to have multisubs. It's not worth my money right now though. I know bass, I know lower midrange, and what I have right now simply does not require me to do much more.
At no point did I say multisubs isn't an improvement.
I said it's not a "necessity" the way it's painted out to be. In some cases, and for multiple seating positions, it might just be worthwhile. But to emphasize it as if not choosing it in every possible scenario is a stone age move, is just pompousness to say the least.
Come to my room, bring all the subs you want, miniDSP, etc, - but no specific ""bass demo material""". Choose regular everyday demo material, and then identify the multisub setup reliably without the bias of sightedness. After you've done it, tell what impact it had on the overall experience and that it was worth the money invested. Tell me that without the multisubs, the piano actually sounded "colored" not "slightly worse if at all". It's an open invitation to anyone.
Multi subs are great. For LFE there's basically no QUESTION. But ask yourself how many times a week do you find yourself watching War of the Worlds?
That's my point. That the content just isn't there in enough material to make a difference.
I am. Freq response over a row of seats, 2 subs, run in parallel, at 1/4 points on the front wall.
But that's equalized, which isn't "just multiple subs in parallel". it's "Multiple subs in parallel plus EQ" which was part of my point. Which adds to the "convolutedness" I alluded to. Even modern receivers with Audyssey don't allow you to PEQ the bass. You at least need a PEQ. And measurement gear. Etc. Etc. Actually, does that result include your main speakers? Because their integration matters - i'm not talking about LFE channel.
the context of my post that you skipped was:
Some say that just running multiple subs in parallel is adequate.
What I was saying, and i probably just went on a tangent - is that I can literally run a stereo SEOS-12 setup off a 70 dollar integrated T-Amp and get fantastic sound in any room - that's the ultimate budget setup.
The rest is an improvement, but not night and day on the vast majority of source material at regular SPLs. You'll probably end up spending a lot more on electronics and subs than you spent on your main speakers.
Edited by Eternal Velocity - 7/13/12 at 11:37am