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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 166

post #4951 of 9844
Thanks for the information guys. I guess I'll keep Paypal for now and make a notice saying you can save 3% by mailing a check. It might help. I did have one bad experience with Paypal when I first went to the new website. All the people I shipped to before the website contacted me here or by email and I knew who they were. But once the new site went up, that wasn't the case, and I didn't put my guard up in time. When people sent money through Paypal, I got it, then shipped. Sometimes shipped to friends here, then get the payment. No big deal. After about 2 weeks on the new site someone bought four 12" Deltalites and other stuff and wanted them shipped to a different address. That happened a few times before here, so I didn't pay much attention. The address came up as "unverified".

Now because I was just getting started on the new site, I thought that just meant that maybe the address was typed wrong. FedEx sometimes gives those warnings. But with Paypal, it means something totally different.....and I didn't know that. I emailed the person and asked if the address was correct, they said yes. So I shipped out the $800 worth of stuff. I got an email a couple weeks later from Paypal saying it was a bogus order with a stolen card and they pulled the $800 out of my account and would not give it back. So some jerk got $800 worth of stuff when I was already just barely breaking even. That really stunk because Paypal did nothing at all. I'm more cautious now, but it still worries me after reading stories about Paypal.

If I was accepting credit cards, would Mastercard take the money from my account and not give it back? How would I know it was a fraudulent purchase over the internet with a stolen or bogus card? Why isn't it their fault? If they do that, they need to extend their advertised policy:

"Customers not responsible for fraudulent internet charges..............we just stick it to the store owners".

It was pretty darn painful packaging all that stuff up, helping out, and then getting $800 stolen that couldn't be considered 'the price of doing business'. No doubt this was a bit more rewarding when I was packaging things up directly for forum members. But now, I have no idea who I'm packing things up for.

But it's not bad until someone thinks it's a "real" store and gets mad that I didn't ship their purchase the next day! rolleyes.gif
post #4952 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Every designer I've talked to says they don't need to get money for their design. Of course, that's not what the site is about. So I'm trying to figure out how much should be added in. I thought about a set figure. But then I thought a percentage might be better. Maybe 5%? For a $100 speaker, it would be $5. For a $300 speaker it would be $15. This one doesn't have $15 added in, a bit less.

I'm OK with any of the above.

Re payment logistics, please save yourself the grief of trying to save us every last penny, and just go with Paypal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I just hope the budget designers get compensated for their time equally with the higher end designs.

I bet the designers of the budget models will do better because of higher volume.
post #4953 of 9844
Okay, let's talk about another high end woofer design for a second without looking at prices right now. Figure a smaller speaker around 1.5 - 2 cu ft that can handle digging down in the low 40's if it had to. Let's not debate those requirements right now.

Here we go:

18-Sound 12NLW9300:
http://www.usspeaker.com/eighteensound-12NLW9300-1.htm


Faital Pro 12P1060 neo magnet:
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/hps.php?id=201050120


Faital Pro 12HP1030 ferrite (I guess like the above model):
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/hps.php?id=201050130


B&C 12TBX100:
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-12PS100-1.htm


B&C 12PS100
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-12PS100-1.htm



If you can think of other higher end woofers that come close to the requirement, now is the time to post them. biggrin.gif


Within a week I should be able to list near future speakers and projected prices. That way it will be easier for people to make decisions on what they want to order.
Edited by Erich H - 8/14/12 at 6:05am
post #4954 of 9844
Thread Starter 
have you looked at the 18sounds 12nmb420? it would seem to best them all.

www.eighteensound.com/renderPdf.aspx?pid=258

the first link in the post points to a different sub, just a minor correct.
post #4955 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rone View Post

Love what you have done with putting all of this together Erich. Thanks for all the tremendous effort.
A few quick questions for any one that can give accurate information.
SEOS12 with Designer 12 woofer: Is there going to be a speaker kit put together with this design?
MTG-08 Speaker kit: Could this speaker be laid on its side for use as a center channel?
I would use this as my center channel until I can afford the cost of three SEOS12 with Designer 12 woofer kits (if they become available eventually) or SEOS-Delta-12A kits. At that time I would pick up another MTG-08 Speaker kit and use those as surrounds.
My current setup includes: PS3, Onkyo tx-sr705 receiver, av123 x-cs ninja'd (center), x-mtm's (left/right), x-ls (surr) and mfw-15 sub (one of the good ones from the very first run). I am going DIY for the bang for buck factor and the satisfaction of doing it myself.
I am wanting better dynamics/hit you in the gut. I want to feel it and be able to hear the slightest detail in a movie sound track. Could this be done with these speakers?
Any information would be great and any advise on the best bang for buck factor would certainly be appreciated by any of the forum members. I will do a couple subs eventually but speakers come first as I am happy with the mfw-15 for now.
Thanks all!
Aaron

Lots of kits are in the works, that one is almost done, many more should start to pop up soon.

The MTG-08 could be used as center channel if you only sit directly in front of it, or within 15 degrees to each side. The center to center spacing on it is a bit wide due to the large waveguide so you are limited to that 30 degree window, outside that you will start to get into a deep null at the crossover frequency.

These speakers are designed with just that in mind, the ability to produce huge dynamics and yet still give great detail. Should give you exactly what you are looking for.
post #4956 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Thanks for the information guys. I guess I'll keep Paypal for now and make a notice saying you can save 3% by mailing a check. It might help. I did have one bad experience with Paypal when I first went to the new website. All the people I shipped to before the website contacted me here or by email and I knew who they were. But once the new site went up, that wasn't the case, and I didn't put my guard up in time. When people sent money through Paypal, I got it, then shipped. Sometimes shipped to friends here, then get the payment. No big deal. After about 2 weeks on the new site someone bought four 12" Deltalites and other stuff and wanted them shipped to a different address. That happened a few times before here, so I didn't pay much attention. The address came up as "unverified".
Now because I was just getting started on the new site, I thought that just meant that maybe the address was typed wrong. FedEx sometimes gives those warnings. But with Paypal, it means something totally different.....and I didn't know that. I emailed the person and asked if the address was correct, they said yes. So I shipped out the $800 worth of stuff. I got an email a couple weeks later from Paypal saying it was a bogus order with a stolen card and they pulled the $800 out of my account and would not give it back. So some jerk got $800 worth of stuff when I was already just barely breaking even. That really stunk because Paypal did nothing at all. I'm more cautious now, but it still worries me after reading stories about Paypal.
If I was accepting credit cards, would Mastercard take the money from my account and not give it back? How would I know it was a fraudulent purchase over the internet with a stolen or bogus card? Why isn't it their fault? If they do that, they need to extend their advertised policy:
"Customers not responsible for fraudulent internet charges..............we just stick it to the store owners".
It was pretty darn painful packaging all that stuff up, helping out, and then getting $800 stolen that couldn't be considered 'the price of doing business'. No doubt this was a bit more rewarding when I was packaging things up directly for forum members. But now, I have no idea who I'm packing things up for.
But it's not bad until someone thinks it's a "real" store and gets mad that I didn't ship their purchase the next day! rolleyes.gif

Bummer, Erich. But don't beat yourself up. You didn't do anything wrong. PayPal "verifies" the address of only registered paypal users. Once you get enough of the unverified notices of people you know, you start to ignore it.

A basic step for fraud prevention is to only automatically process orders that the ship to and bill to address match via AVS (address verification system). You can then deal with the exceptions directly and see if they are legit.

This won't stop fraud. Only reduce it. There are third party services that "rate" the transaction on risk. I haven't used them...

Last, it sucks, but fraud is a cost of doing business. Keep that in mind when you price out your items. Again, even if you are trying to stay non-profit, you still need to cover your overall costs.
post #4957 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

have you looked at the 18sounds 12nmb420? it would seem to best them all.
www.eighteensound.com/renderPdf.aspx?pid=258
the first link in the post points to a different sub, just a minor correct.


Sorry, I meant the more expensive 18-Sound 12NLW9300 that shows when clicking the link. I corrected it. I'm not sure the 12nmb420 will go low enough in that small of an enclosure like the other one. It doesn't seem like it would, but I could be wrong.
post #4958 of 9844
Sexy.

hires_web.jpg?refresh=1
post #4959 of 9844
How about these?

http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=6

http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012B100R-1.htm

http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm

I'm looking for a compact floorstander that would not need bass augmentation through a sub.
post #4960 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubyhalo View Post

How about these?
http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=6
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012B100R-1.htm
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm
I'm looking for a compact floorstander that would not need bass augmentation through a sub.


We're looking for something a bit higher up than the Beyma models for this particular speaker. The A&E models are certainly great, but it might make sense to wait until John gets caught up with the current projects he's working on first.
post #4961 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"I meant the more expensive 18-Sound 12NLW9300 that shows when clicking the link. I corrected it. I'm not sure the 12nmb420 will go low enough in that small of an enclosure like the other one. It doesn't seem like it would, but I could be wrong."

yeah, it isn't designed to go low, that is for sure. 1.25 cubic feet tuned to 70hz gives a -3db point right around 80hz. it has a copper sleeve on the pole piece, which gives it really low normalized inductance (le/re) and that is one of the keys to trasient response...aka super clear midrange. you can see some of the benefit in how flat the impedance graph is. it doesn't have the wild swing up that is typical.

the frequency response is also incredibly smooth. the rolloff from 500hz down to 80hz comes from the fact that it is being measured in 4pi space. the frequency response has about +/- 0.5db ripple from 80hz all the way to the crossover point, which is something you almost never see in a "pro audio" woofer with 100.5db 1w1m sensitivity and bests most high end "audiophile" drivers.

........

i am really sorry to hear about the fraud incident. too bad the fbi didn't get involved right away because the criminal may have placed subsequent orders and the fbi could go monitor the location in order to see who picks up the packages. :-)
post #4962 of 9844
Ah, I see. Would appreciate more details, whenever you can share them. Thank you for all your efforts.
post #4963 of 9844
I have one concern. Mentioned above Pro woofers are very extreme in terms of power and suspension hardeness (cms). That makes then poorly suited for audiophile, low-level listening. You have to turn the knob high to hear details.
Soft suspended , low powered Altecs are good in this regard. They have high cms and high qms. Rere parameters these days

PS. I wouldn't reject Beyma 12B100R so quickly. Mid efficiency (93db/w) and low FS (30hz) are also rarely seen lately.
post #4964 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The Malcolms are a ported design. One side port on both sides.
I'm working up kit prices right now. So you might want to hold off on any purchases until I get them posted. I'm thinking about having kits with just the parts, the parts and only the baffle, then complete kits with all parts and the full flat pack.
BA's will be listed before the weekend is out. I took photos last night.
Forum member MTG-09 made up a speaker using the 8" Celestion, the DNA-150, and another waveguide from the site. He has agreed to make another similar model but use the SEOS-12. The enclosure is listed on the site and should be about 8" deep. The Eminence 8" Delta is also a drop in for the same enclosure.

Erich, is the Malcolm going to be a kit? Rough ETA?

I see the front baffle up in your store. Just weighing out assembling it in pieces from you (baffle, SEOS, CD) and PE, vs waiting on full kit from you.

Thanks!!
post #4965 of 9844
It should be towards the end of the week on the Malcolm. The baffles are okay, but the woofers don't fit in easily because of their side terminals. So I need to get that changed.

Because of how small that box is, it might end up being better to just buy the baffle and the components. I'm hoping the discount will nearly cover the front baffle cost and still get it all shipped free. biggrin.gif
post #4966 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

It should be towards the end of the week on the Malcolm. The baffles are okay, but the woofers don't fit in easily because of their side terminals. So I need to get that changed.
Because of how small that box is, it might end up being better to just buy the baffle and the components. I'm hoping the discount will nearly cover the front baffle cost and still get it all shipped free. biggrin.gif

Thanks for the quick response, Erich.

I think I can wait a few days. wink.gif
post #4967 of 9844
Any updates on the BA driver ?
post #4968 of 9844
Will baffles be offered for SEOS 18/AETD15M?smile.gif
I was thinking about building my baffles but at these prices I might be better off going with the diysoundgroup version.
post #4969 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakamada View Post

I have one concern. Mentioned above Pro woofers are very extreme in terms of power and suspension hardeness (cms). That makes then poorly suited for audiophile, low-level listening. You have to turn the knob high to hear details.

Not sure I agree.

Most of the difference in Fs between pro and "regular" drivers is due to Mms, not Cms.

Even though pro woofer Cms is less, that's no reason for the behavior you describe, which sounds mythical as well as being counter to what I've read about a lot of systems using pro woofers.

Also, I don't believe there's any stiction in driver suspensions, as there's no sliding of parts with friction, just material flexure.
post #4970 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"I have one concern. Mentioned above Pro woofers are very extreme in terms of power and suspension hardeness (cms)..."

not the 12nmb420 or the ae td12/15m's. i forgot that point. the 12nmb420 has relatively compliant suspension (270 um/n), as it is really optimized for a studio and not full force max spl p.a. applications. the td15m's are around (290 um/n).

some of the tighter p.a. woofers do require a little bit of power before they "come alive", but that doesn't mean that they are "bad" at low listening levels.
post #4971 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I have one concern. Mentioned above Pro woofers are very extreme in terms of power and suspension hardeness (cms)..."
not the 12nmb420 or the ae td12/15m's. i forgot that point. the 12nmb420 has relatively compliant suspension (270 um/n), as it is really optimized for a studio and not full force max spl p.a. applications. the td15m's are around (290 um/n).
some of the tighter p.a. woofers do require a little bit of power before they "come alive", but that doesn't mean that they are "bad" at low listening levels.

But the AE "M"s and the 12NMB420 don't have the excursion to be used in boxes tuned to 40 hz or lower for a no-sub music-only solution. What would you say about the usability of the AE TD X,S, or H or the 12NLW9300 at average levels of 1-10 watts and headroom for peaks up to at least 200W? Is that enough power for any of them to "come alive".

Hmmm, you said the AE TD15s are 290 um/n. I see the 12NLW9300 is 230 mm/Newton which is pretty close to the TD15M while the TD12S at 406 mm/N is almost twice as stiff. Does that answer my question?

Jack
post #4972 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"But the AE "M"s and the 12NMB420 don't have the excursion to be used in boxes tuned to 40 hz or lower for a no-sub music-only solution."

i would pretty much agree with that, particularly for the 12nmb420. if you want more of a full ranger, it isn't the best pick.

"the TD12S at 406 mm/N is almost twice as stiff. Does that answer my question?"

i think that i get what you mean. μm/n (micro meter per newton)...as it rises the suspension becomes more compliant, which means less stiff. the td12s is a good one. there are tradeoffs though. 7 db of midrange sensitivity vs the 12nmb420 for much more extension into the bass region and a larger cab would help them.
post #4973 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

We're looking for something a bit higher up than the Beyma models for this particular speaker. The A&E models are certainly great, but it might make sense to wait until John gets caught up with the current projects he's working on first.

Well many of the AE Speakers from the group buy are shipping this week. I just got my tracking number for 3 TD12M's and I ordered well after the group buy. I would guess that he may be caught up in the next week or two. Can't think of more high end than AE Speakers.
post #4974 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"But the AE "M"s and the 12NMB420 don't have the excursion to be used in boxes tuned to 40 hz or lower for a no-sub music-only solution."
i would pretty much agree with that, particularly for the 12nmb420. if you want more of a full ranger, it isn't the best pick.
"the TD12S at 406 mm/N is almost twice as stiff. Does that answer my question?"
i think that i get what you mean. μm/n (micro meter per newton)...as it rises the suspension becomes more compliant, which means less stiff. the td12s is a good one. there are tradeoffs though. 7 db of midrange sensitivity vs the 12nmb420 for much more extension into the bass region and a larger cab would help them.

I too think you got what I meant but i did mispeak. I said twice as stiff but I should have said twice as compliant. I don't have the experience to predict a speaker's bass response from looking at the T/S parameters but i can and do run lots of simulations over ranges of box sizes and tunings to make up for that lack of experience. Running simulations, I find that in the same size box, tuning, and power, the 12NLW9300 comes out about 3 db ahead of the AE and Failtal 12's at the low frequency knee of the response curve and, of course, that if you want to dig deep, the bigger the box the better. But simulations don't tell you how a speaker will sound, they just predict its bass response.

A few posts back, someone contended "You have to turn the knob high to hear details". That caused me some concern because not only am I planning on using a high sensitivity midwoofer but I'm also placing it in a corner where I'll get 9 db of corner gain. So I won't need very much power at all. Now that I've thought about it, I find that contention hard to believe. The speaker is a linear system and its cone will track its electrical input within the limits of its linearity. The lower the power level, the more linear it should be. If a a speaker sounds unsatisfactory at low levels, its probably because its not playing loud enough for the reflections to be above some threshold of audilbility and provide a sense of envelopment or perhaps music just sounds better played loud. If there is any truth to the concern at all, its likely that I will listen louder with these new speakers simply because the won't distort and therefore won't have any problem (other than my wife yelling at me:) )

But if the group buy woofers are shipping ,as seems to be the case, most of this agonizing about high end drivers none of us have had the opportunity to hear or test will be moot.

Jack
post #4975 of 9844
I just got my tracking # too and I'm in the Group Buy. The GB drivers are shipping now. I expect mine 8/20.smile.gif
post #4976 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Well many of the AE Speakers from the group buy are shipping this week. I just got my tracking number for 3 TD12M's and I ordered well after the group buy. I would guess that he may be caught up in the next week or two. Can't think of more high end than AE Speakers.

I also got my tracking information today for 5 TD12M's and my order was just a couple months ago. biggrin.gif
post #4977 of 9844
Got my tracking information for three TD12M's earlier today as well. Ordered three seos 26" blank baffles and a BMS-4550 in preparation. Finally, the time has come. Going to get exciting for all of us AE owners.
post #4978 of 9844

What ever happened to the giveaway? Did people receive their prize or is it on hold?

post #4979 of 9844
I have not received mine yet, but I do not fault Erich at all. He has been very busy, and I have almost been busier. Things are just now starting to settle down for me.

I just bought a house after moving across the country six months ago. Finally moving my wife and kids out here in 2 weeks. I am just about ready for my prize.

I am slowly starting construction of my build for the living room. 2 SEOS towers flanked by a 21" Mael each side. Pushing the limits of WAF lol. I will start a thread when I have some progress...Trying to find innovative ways to get them built without having all my tools here yet.

Then there is the future basement build...MUAHAHAHAHAH.



Steve
post #4980 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

What ever happened to the giveaway? Did people receive their prize or is it on hold?

Nothing is really on hold, it's more like a packaging back log of sorts. I'll get yours packed this week. Don't worry, no one is going to get ripped. It's just been hectic. I'm about 19 packages behind right now, not counting anything that happened today. Most are subwoofer flat packs and they take about 20 minutes each, maybe a little longer because I do the roundovers.

My friend was suppose to help over the weekend but his wife had her baby so he was not able to stop by. He asked her if she could hold him in for just a few more days, but I guess that wasn't possible.



If there's anyone in Canada that can take a pallet of 'stuff', let me know. Same with any other country. Australia, Sweden, and Germany seem to like waveguides. I'm trying to figure out how to get the US Postal Service account up and running for international shipping, but I had some problems. I'll call on Thursday.
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