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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 181

post #5401 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

With virtually NO holes to poke in the 2226 or the AE15's I would say both are a good starting point as they are some of the flagship drivers for their particular style. The Faital and B&C drivers would be nice too, but not as many folks have those already, even though they may be just as capable...

Except AE may or may not ever have drivers in stock.
post #5402 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

One way to limit the investment (and risk) is to not stock the woofers or crossover components unless they are highly discounted and used across multiple designs. Anyone can order parts from PE or a dozen other places. Focus on the unique items like the SEOS waveguides and flatpacks that can't be sourced elsewhere. I know that complete kits are very attractive but what % of your potential customers are actually going to be turned off by placing a second order?

There's a slight problem with that. Many times PE is out of crossover parts we need. Plus, they have been discounting parts for kits, and I use that savings to offer free shipping. That saves a decent amount for people.

It really isn't going to be a huge problem. I'll get it done one way or the other.
post #5403 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlouw View Post

Look what I found for boards. Free design software and the boards are made in small orders. If the files were posted people could even order their own directly. It looks pretty hassle free. http://www.expresspcb.com/ What do you think?

"Our pricing formula is: $61 + ($0.70 * NumberOfBoards * BoardAreaInSquareInches) + ($1.00 * NumberOfBoards) + Shipping."

For 10 of their standard service boards at 6"x6" it looks like it would be $323 before shipping. $33+ per borad is not what I would call cheap
Even if you ordered 100 it would still be over $27 a board after shipping.

If the board could be shrunk down that would save on costs. Your still going to be looking at a minimum of about $20 per board for the simpler designs.



Edit: Production service boards are a little cheaper for larger runs
"$245 + ($0.55 * Number Of Boards * Board Area In Square Inches) + ($1.00 * Number Of Boards) + Shipping."

Still looking at $25+ for a board on most designs.
Edited by mtg90 - 10/23/12 at 4:20pm
post #5404 of 9844
pcb seems like a waste of time and money its by far the simplest thing to do when building the speakers. what i would recommend is just take a highres 3000x2000k range picture of the completed xo the label every part in the picture that would make it just as simple if not more simple since all types of bad things can happen with pcbs in general errors them skimping you on thickness and other things including soldering to a pcb could cause the traces to lift from over heating where is if your twisting lead together this will never happen.
post #5405 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

One way to limit the investment (and risk) is to not stock the woofers or crossover components unless they are highly discounted and used across multiple designs. Anyone can order parts from PE or a dozen other places. Focus on the unique items like the SEOS waveguides and flatpacks that can't be sourced elsewhere. I know that complete kits are very attractive but what % of your potential customers are actually going to be turned off by placing a second order?

Knowing that DIYer's are naturally resourceful, and used to "digging about", I agree completely with the above suggestion - to limit offerings to the unique and harder to find items.
post #5406 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlouw View Post

Look what I found for boards. Free design software and the boards are made in small orders. If the files were posted people could even order their own directly. It looks pretty hassle free. http://www.expresspcb.com/ What do you think?

Can I just start up a custom crossover building company and solve everyone's problems with one fail swoop? I'll go ahead and get my non-existent soddering station ready.
post #5407 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

... fail swoop ...

LOL, don't be so pessimistic.
post #5408 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by diy speaker guy View Post

LOL, don't be so pessimistic.

Haha, meant that exactly, assuming I still have yet to build my first ever crossover. Lol tongue.gif
post #5409 of 9844
This looks alot cheaper than pcbexpress. http://www.goldphoenixpcb.com/singlepage.php?tg=specialprice

I think the PCB is a nice feature to include with kits but if the cost is prohibitive it's best to just leave it out. Perhaps you can get the cnc company to route a wood board with writing and holes to put the components in for cheaper.
post #5410 of 9844
I know a company that will make up the PCB's. That's not going to be a problem. The issue only boils down to cost per design.
post #5411 of 9844
Thread Starter 
post #5412 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

is this anything?
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/xo-design-service

That's Paul's site (Overnight Sensations). He's been really busy lately and I don't think he offers that too much anymore. He should be finishing up a cheaper design around the 6" Aurasound any day now. It doesn't use a waveguide though. smile.gif The boxes were cut a few months ago with the Hitmakers.
post #5413 of 9844
Jeff Bagby just made mention of his SEOS design over at PE Tech talk forum, with a picture. Who recognizes the woofer?
post #5414 of 9844
post #5415 of 9844
I recognize it. That's a 'sleeper' of a woofer. biggrin.gif

And I must say, whoever designed and assembled that enclosure did one heck of a fine job!!
Edited by Erich H - 10/26/12 at 2:26pm
post #5416 of 9844
Speaker Enclosure Updates and Questions.

I had a meeting with the CNC company yesterday (for 2 hours)! I will be getting prices for Baltic birch enclosures with some of the designs. The Baltic birch is the same type that was used for other flat packs, only 3/4". It's really good stuff, but every now and again there are some of those football shaped patches, which could end up on the baffle. I think they call it BB grade? I personally like the cabinet being made from Baltic and then using mdf for the front baffle because mdf can be painted easier and machines a little smoother around the woofer and waveguide. The roundovers on Baltic are smooth, but it's still plywood and not as smooth as mdf will be.


So here's the big question:

Which way makes the most sense for these speaker cabinets:

#1. The whole cabinet made from 3/4" mdf, double baffles where needed.

#2. The cabinet made from Baltic birch, including the first baffle layer, but the outer baffle should be mdf.

#3. The whole cabinet made from Baltic birch, even the outer baffle.


Obviously the price goes up for each one of those ideas. I'm personally leaning towards Baltic cabinets with mdf baffles.
post #5417 of 9844
#3. The whole cabinet made from Baltic birch, even the outer baffle.


I like option #3, all BB.

I could be completely wrong here, but I don't see a necessity for double baffles on these speakers besides aesthetic concerns.
post #5418 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by djginwis View Post

Jeff Bagby just made mention of his SEOS design over at PE Tech talk forum, with a picture. Who recognizes the woofer?


link?

edit: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?234487-Interested-in-building-Econowaves-from-scratch-anyone-familiar
post #5419 of 9844
#2
bb does't mill well for roundovers.
post #5420 of 9844
#2. If you do one for the td12m, you can mark me down now for one!
post #5421 of 9844
No mention is made for bracing or struts in any of the cabinet options. I'm confident that one could make any of those cabinet recipes work very well if the internal support was adequate. More support should be included for mdf panels than for BB.
post #5422 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

#2
bb does't mill well for roundovers.

If a location for the use of BB is favored, such as the front where screw holding ability is needed, then let it in to be surrounded by mdf. That way the roundovers aren't as "fuzzy".
post #5423 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

#3. The whole cabinet made from Baltic birch, even the outer baffle.
I like option #3, all BB.
I could be completely wrong here, but I don't see a necessity for double baffles on these speakers besides aesthetic concerns.

Not double baffle but the section between the waveguide and woofer is a weak location due to the scarcity of material. I think this area begs for additional support.
post #5424 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg40403 View Post

Not double baffle but the section between the waveguide and woofer is a weak location due to the scarcity of material. I think this area begs for additional support.

All of these have double baffles and a support beam right between the waveguide and woofer. As for internal bracing, the 2 cuft boxes have 2 horizontal and one vertical brace, so there's a brace every 6" inside the cabinet.
post #5425 of 9844

Man. Those are some nice looking speakers coming from Jeff...

post #5426 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post

#2. If you do one for the td12m, you can mark me down now for one!
you can mark me down for 5.
post #5427 of 9844
I just got boxes in for some small .75 cuft boxes for a sealed 10" model.


What kind of box is needed for the td12m? Not sure what dimensions or volume you would want, but I will do my best to get them done.


If anyone thinks there should be a shallow enclosure for use behind screens, let me know. They might not be made from Baltic though because I'm not sure if demand will be high enough to get 50 or so made for each size.
post #5428 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I just got boxes in for some small .75 cuft boxes for a sealed 10" model.
What kind of box is needed for the td12m? Not sure what dimensions or volume you would want, but I will do my best to get them done.
If anyone thinks there should be a shallow enclosure for use behind screens, let me know. They might not be made from Baltic though because I'm not sure if demand will be high enough to get 50 or so made for each size.

If placing behind a microperf screen the speaker baffle should be 8" to 12" back from the screen. If behind a woven screen you need 2" minimum. This is why it is nice to have boxes that are not so deep. That is why the TD12M is a nice choice for those with AT screens. The driver can be used in a smaller volume. If you are using behind a screen for HT then you know a sub/subs is involved and deep extension is not needed, so that helps to reduce box size.
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post #5429 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If placing behind a microperf screen the speaker baffle should be 8" to 12" back from the screen. If behind a woven screen you need 2" minimum. This is why it is nice to have boxes that are not so deep. That is why the TD12M is a nice choice for those with AT screens. The driver can be used in a smaller volume. If you are using behind a screen for HT then you know a sub/subs is involved and deep extension is not needed, so that helps to reduce box size.
+1. I would think that most HT enthusiasts are going to be placing their enclosures behind an AT screen. In this case width wouldn't be as limiting as depth. Personally, I am hoping someone designs for an AE TD12M or TD15M as I bought both for this project, just in case. Although I do understand the instability of future access to AE drivers, I was almost certain someone would want to build the ultimate SEOS design based on these drivers.
post #5430 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcarola25 View Post

+1. I would think that most HT enthusiasts are going to be placing their enclosures behind an AT screen. In this case width wouldn't be as limiting as depth. Personally, I am hoping someone designs for an AE TD12M or TD15M as I bought both for this project, just in case. Although I do understand the instability of future access to AE drivers, I was almost certain someone would want to build the ultimate SEOS design based on these drivers.
Bill has designed the crossover for these already, but I'm not sure what his box volume is and what difference it'll make if you stray from the design?
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