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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 185

post #5521 of 9845
When I posted the picture, I had not hooked it up yet. Just now threw it in the chain, no calibration. This was just so that I could see how it sound. Even up at reference level the TD12M cone hardly moves. I think these are going to be very nice, once I have them completely finished.
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post #5522 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Have one box (Erich flat pack) completed and ready to be finished. Loaded the drivers for a test listen, with crossover outside the box.

Nice fit on the box. Other two boxes are half completed.
Very nice. I do not have my phase plugs yet.

Erich,

When will these flatpacks be available? biggrin.gif
post #5523 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

When I posted the picture, I had not hooked it up yet. Just now threw it in the chain, no calibration. This was just so that I could see how it sound. Even up at reference level the TD12M cone hardly moves. I think these are going to be very nice, once I have them completely finished.

Awesome. Just wait until you've got them playing in stereo and crossed to your subs...they completely disappear. I know what you mean about the cone movement at reference levels. The low qts and fs are a testament to its midrange capabilities and how tight the cone is, I've been really pleased with vocals and dialog.
post #5524 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Awesome. Just wait until you've got them playing in stereo and crossed to your subs...they completely disappear. I know what you mean about the cone movement at reference levels. The low qts and fs are a testament to its midrange capabilities and how tight the cone is, I've been really pleased with vocals and dialog.
Making me jealous. tongue.gif
post #5525 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

Making me jealous. tongue.gif


Time for another AE group buy?

tongue.gif
post #5526 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

With the two under-priced competitors out of the market, I doubt it will be long before more than a few step up to fill the market interest with more finished solutions

I wish I could share your optimism about other companies stepping up and filling the niche, but I have serious doubts this will ever happen. Not at this price point.

Contrary to what some have posted recently (never Craig, just misinterpretations of what he posted), CHT was not an intentional non-profit, nor was eD for that matter. eD was almost certainly under-priced for a growing, sustainable operation, and Craig's decision to close suggests he might have been pushing on some comfortable limits, but guessing on box costs, not by much.

I made the above vague implication having already spoke with multiple other speaker companies, myself included, who feel a little more interested in the ideas they've previously had on the shelf or in a low priority development mode. Personally with Seaton Sound I need to stabilize and reach a stronger point in my own cycle of growth (that stability can be very sinusoidal) before I want to efficiently and more optimally handle a higher volume, lower cost product. I'm specifically NOT stating I will jump in with something, but rather pointing out that I'm not the only one looking at related solutions with increased interest.

Look back at the shakeout of the DIY driver market over the last 5-10 years. All the fighting over the most bang/buck resulted in a bunch of fragile situations which left us with many fewer options beyond larger operations like Parts Express, and delivery issues with those still standing. Both DIYers and the business owners are left frustrated with the resulting situation. In the finished speaker realm, the high value, more conventional speaker market is still recovering and working to fill in the AV123 crater as they dumped product at ever lower prices as they tried to survive the hole its owner was digging. The long term result will be stronger businesses and better options for enthusiasts. In this case neither were as long entrenched as my 2 examples above, which bodes well for a quicker reaction.

My 2c
post #5527 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Time for another AE group buy?
tongue.gif
I have 5 of them, but I don't have phase plugs. No rush, but can't wait. wink.gif

If there was another group buy I'm not sure what I'd go for. Wouldn't mind seeing some surrounds with the 6's.
post #5528 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I made the above vague implication having already spoke with multiple other speaker companies, myself included, who feel a little more interested in the ideas they've previously had on the shelf or in a low priority development mode. Personally with Seaton Sound I need to stabilize and reach a stronger point in my own cycle of growth (that stability can be very sinusoidal) before I want to efficiently and more optimally handle a higher volume, lower cost product. I'm specifically NOT stating I will jump in with something, but rather pointing out that I'm not the only one looking at related solutions with increased interest.
I'd love to be proven wrong in this case, Mark.
post #5529 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

But when it comes to the finished products, ID or not, the CHT stuff was an amazing and rare value IMHO.
Very few people can afford your products, Mark. For the less fortunate who do not want to deal w/ DIY , there are no decent budget options for high performance HT any more.
I wish I could share your optimism about other companies stepping up and filling the niche, but I have serious doubts this will ever happen. Not at this price point.

Not sure you understand what happened to those ID companies recently lost. It comes down to a working business model. If in order to atract buyers, you reduce margins.....this isn't sustainable....there's gotta be an endgame. These products weren't 'good buys' or ' amazing values'....they were unsustainable margins. The product that you and many others crave.....it doesn't exist long term.
post #5530 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Not sure you understand what happened to those ID companies recently lost. It comes down to a working business model. If in order to atract buyers, you reduce margins.....this isn't sustainable....there's gotta be an endgame. These products weren't 'good buys' or ' amazing values'....they were unsustainable margins. The product that you and many others crave.....it doesn't exist long term.

I'd rather the arguments over what the real reasons CHT went out of business not spill over here. there is a "dance over the CHT grave" thread for this already.
But I am with you as far as the prospects of this kind of products being ever available again at this price point. Mark and Erich are more optimistic about it though. I hope they are right.
post #5531 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Contrary to what some have posted recently (never Craig, just misinterpretations of what he posted), CHT was not an intentional non-profit, nor was eD for that matter. eD was almost certainly under-priced for a growing, sustainable operation, and Craig's decision to close suggests he might have been pushing on some comfortable limits, but guessing on box costs, not by much.
I made the above vague implication having already spoke with multiple other speaker companies, myself included, who feel a little more interested in the ideas they've previously had on the shelf or in a low priority development mode. Personally with Seaton Sound I need to stabilize and reach a stronger point in my own cycle of growth (that stability can be very sinusoidal) before I want to efficiently and more optimally handle a higher volume, lower cost product. I'm specifically NOT stating I will jump in with something, but rather pointing out that I'm not the only one looking at related solutions with increased interest.
Look back at the shakeout of the DIY driver market over the last 5-10 years. All the fighting over the most bang/buck resulted in a bunch of fragile situations which left us with many fewer options beyond larger operations like Parts Express, and delivery issues with those still standing. Both DIYers and the business owners are left frustrated with the resulting situation. In the finished speaker realm, the high value, more conventional speaker market is still recovering and working to fill in the AV123 crater as they dumped product at ever lower prices as they tried to survive the hole its owner was digging. The long term result will be stronger businesses and better options for enthusiasts. In this case neither were as long entrenched as my 2 examples above, which bodes well for a quicker reaction.
My 2c



Interesting, ... wow, there's a lot there to dissect. eek.gif

Mark, I wish you luck both in current stabilization efforts, and with future offerings filling whatever market segment you deem attractive to pursue.

All the best,
Kevin
post #5532 of 9845
...
Edited by beaujewel - 11/22/12 at 10:38pm
post #5533 of 9845
Thread Starter 
welcome in.

they are available from http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ but not at the moment. erich is catching up on some work and putting together several new products, so ordering won't be available for a few more days.
Edited by LTD02 - 11/11/12 at 7:57pm
post #5534 of 9845
...
Edited by beaujewel - 11/22/12 at 10:38pm
post #5535 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Time for another AE group buy?
tongue.gif
eek.gif

No way never no more!
post #5536 of 9845
OT:

6th annual Central KY diy this Saturday

124 Township Square, Lawrenceburg, KY. 9'ish to late afternoon.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/clubs-events/222345-6th-annual-central-ky-diy-2012-a.html#post3238592
post #5537 of 9845
Anyone know the complete T/S parameters for the TD12M?

Trying to enter them into Jeff B. Excel spreadsheet. Thanks
post #5538 of 9845
TD12M - 8ohm
Fs: 38.1Hz
Qms: 2.99
Vas: 140L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 50g
Rms: 4kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 531sqcm
Qes: .27
Re: 6.6ohm
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .25
1W SPL: 96.5dB
post #5539 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Anyone know the complete T/S parameters for the TD12M?
Trying to enter them into Jeff B. Excel spreadsheet. Thanks

Measured T/S show some deviation from manufacturer T/S:

https://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements/tang-band-75-1558se/ae-speakers-td12m
post #5540 of 9845
Thread Starter 
i was going to say they look pretty much similar, but then i saw the inductance is 5x? did he measure that or was it just a plug? with the full copper sleeved pole, 1.0mh seems too high.
post #5541 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i was going to say they look pretty much similar, but then i saw the inductance is 5x? did he measure that or was it just a plug? with the full copper sleeved pole, 1.0mh seems too high.


Quote:
SE's curve fitting did not like the weird impedance profile of this driver due to the full copper sleeve on the pole piece, so measured Le is a bit higher than actual.
post #5542 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

TD12M - 8ohm
Fs: 38.1Hz
Qms: 2.99
Vas: 140L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 50g
Rms: 4kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 531sqcm
Qes: .27
Re: 6.6ohm
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .25
1W SPL: 96.5dB

Thanks

What are the Vb and Fb values?
post #5543 of 9845
Thread Starter 
that depends on the box that you put them in smok.

thanks mad.
post #5544 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Lots of good waveguide photos here........finally!


Sorry I didn't get to post some photos earlier. I had a busy week at work, and then my Dad had an unexpected operation on Thursday. But I'm caught back up!


No doubt you guys probably think I'm slacking here on the waveguide stuff, but that's not the case! This photo shows a bunch of SEOS models. Keep in mind, I have some at home and I've already shipped or boxed up about 10 to people that ordered them on the last group buy.





SEOS-12 in black:





SEOS-15 in red:




Comparison with the QSC. They are different depths, but I raised the SEOS to get it close for the picture. Black 12 on the top, white 15 on the bottom:






Side shot:





Comparison with the QSC. Black 12 on top, black 18 on the bottom:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Okay, I opened up one of my Deltalite 10" woofers and put it next to the SEOS-10:








And here's a Deltalite 12" woofer next to the SEOS-12:








If anyone here is going to want a Deltalite, they should hurry up and let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim_inFLA View Post

I received my SEOS-15's yesterday. They really are beautifully made. The finish on them is amazing. Thank you Erich!



525x525px-LL-034642fe_vbattach227928.jpeg

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Have one box (Erich flat pack) completed and ready to be finished. Loaded the drivers for a test listen, with crossover outside the box.

Nice fit on the box. Other two boxes are half completed.

It's really amazing how far this project has come in the past year. I remember the day when I logged in to see the pictures Erich posted of all of the waveguides that came off of the pallet.
It took a few minutes for me to pick my jaw up off of the floor when I saw those pictures, especially after waiting so long to see a glimpse of a finished product.
Take a moment and go back to the first post. Date: 11/18/10.
2 years of hard work, from so many people, is starting to wrap up in an entire kit; with flat pack box, Waveguide, CD, Crossover, etc.
I can't even begin to say how awesome this is as a collective group effort.

I never got to meet Zilch, but I can say that he would be proud of where we are with this project.

So, now just a little bit longer and we will have some truly awesome speakers.
I am really looking forward to seeing the build threads pour in.
I think the only problem I have now is that I want to build too many, haha.
Looking back over those pictures, makes me want to get a set of the Red SEOS 15's or 18's.

I want some Waveguides for Christmas!

- Max
post #5545 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3AMRecords View Post

I am really looking forward to seeing the build threads pour in.
I think the only problem I have now is that I want to build too many, haha.
Looking back over those pictures, makes me want to get a set of the Red SEOS 15's or 18's.
I want some Waveguides for Christmas!
- Max


Well my friend, you're in luck because for some reason I happen to have 2 or 3 of the red SEOS-15's, if by some chance you wanted any. biggrin.gif
post #5546 of 9845
Erich,

Hope things are going better for your Dad. Welcome back to these discussions.
I am a newbie - jumped in about 7~10 days ago and joined this club by ordering 3 SEOS 12's in gloss black, and 3 of the 350 drivers (the web site showed the 360s are all gone at the moment). I'll bet I will have a nice Thanksgiving shipment coming my way any day now smile.gif
This is some awesome work you and others are doing here - THANK YOU!!
post #5547 of 9845
The 360's aren't completely out of stock. I just wanted to make sure there were still some left once the kits came out.

But to be safe, I did order more a little while ago and they will be here in about 30 days or so.

If you really wanted the 360's, just let me know.
post #5548 of 9845
If you have already shipped - I'll stick with the 350s. If not yet shipped, lets switch to 360s. Either way - no worries.
post #5549 of 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

TD12M - 8ohm
Fs: 38.1Hz
Qms: 2.99
Vas: 140L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 50g
Rms: 4kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 531sqcm
Qes: .27
Re: 6.6ohm
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .25
1W SPL: 96.5dB


I am a little confused. Is this measured data?

It's quite different than what's on the AE web site.
post #5550 of 9845
Forgive me if this was covered previously, but are there any slim options that might fit in columns that are about 9-10 inches deep? Something that would perhaps match nicely with some of the larger designs for LCR?

My theatre will be only 14' wide and I'd like to conceal surrounds in columns.
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