Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 200

IANAL, but I believe if you can show prior art, then you'd win. That being said, it's better to avoid the situation altogether.

Hey

I am late to the party but it seems I am right on time. Erich, as incredible as this project has become, I'm really excited to see everything listed (as I'm sure a lot more people are as well) I blasted through 3 months of posts yesterday and somewhat eagerly waited for each time I saw a post come up.

Guys, please let the man get these designs up for sale, save your crossover buying schematic issues until everything is completely posted! I can't wait to buy!

Anyone have an idea what the practical differences are between the Definimax used in Bagby's design and the TD12M, knowing full well no one has likely tested both? Can't find much discussion on the Definimax. I do see it is less sensitive by about 2 dbs. Assuming you are crossing over to a sub, what are the pros/cons?

+2 on the above
Very impressive what Erich has gone thru to get the project to this point. I'll bet he would really like to concentrate on getting things posted and shipped

I just got an email that the smaller compression drivers and parts have arrived. I'll try to pick those up today.

To me, asking for only xover schematics seems like something that should be taken up with designer directly, rather than making Erich the middle man.

+1

True, but the problem in IP is that money has power. For example, Bo$e has patented a number of things that existed under prior art or was in the public domain. They have been known to be litigious, and are very likely to defend "their" IP. Does one have the money to defend oneself even if Bo$e is in the wrong? I was once told by a mentor while going to school, that if a party does not have sufficient funds to defend a patent it was better off licensing the patent to someone with deep pockets. In the end, money matters whether one is defending his or her IP, or defending his or her right to use IP that is actually part of the public domain..

That's not exactly correct. If it was, I'd draw and post a picture of a flying car so no one could patent one in the future.

Luckily we're past all of those worries though. The SEOS has been well documented and no one at this point can tell us to stop producing it.

What would be a good small surround speaker for these Seos kits? I don't want a 14x19x8" box in the living roomfor my surround speaker I was looking at internet direct and brand name speakers, can't find exactly what I'm looking for... high sensitivity in a smallish enclosure.

+1. I would like to get something like a JTR single 8ht-lp, but I can't swing that price for 4 surrounds right now.

These guys get decent results and can be found pretty cheap on the auction site if you don't want to DIY.

I've seen some of the enclosure people have built for these which couldddddddddddd work if I can't find anything. I'm mainly looking for a smallish coaxial or full range driver.

Re co-ax surrounds

If you are willing & able to DIY, I'll bet you could come close to duplicating the JTRs with the Eminenence Beta 10CX for $75 and the Denovo DNA 150 from Eric for $15.40 plus the crossover. It wouldn't handle the power the JTR does but with boundary support hanging on the wall near the ceiling you shouldn't need more than the 120W or so it can take crossed LR2 at 80 Hz. 1 cu.ft. box is all you need sealed....

I might try this myself when I get some time....

Jack

You could use the Daniel, which I may use. Maybe slightly larger than what you want.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=101.0

These may be worth a look:
budget-eminence-coaxial-surround-build

The Eminence Coaxials don't do well with the DNA-150. Erich sent me a CX2008 a while back we both thought it would be an awsome match with the DNA-150. Anyway it measured horrible and that idea was scrapped. I can't be certain be I do think the waveguides in all the Eminence coaxials are the same so may get similar results to this:

MTG90 has the 8" B&C speaker which can be used as a surround. And Jeff Bagby is working on a speaker in the same sized enclosure with an 8" Eminence woofer and the mid sized compression drivers I just picked up. They are roughly 9.5" wide, 17" tall, and 9.5" deep.

The B&C model will likely be more expensive than the Eminence. But the B&C model is pretty much ready to ship.

Maybe: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=71.0

I use B&C 8CX21 coaxes and XO1 crossover; got them from prosoundservice.com

About 2/3 cu ft external, ported, Fb = 90 Hz I think

Those drivers look nice but a little too expensive for me. In total its about $550 for two drivers, xover, and shipping....ouch!
Edited by Mrkazador - 12/4/12 at 11:05pm

Man the FR with that coax is fugly!

Is it probable the 12" Eminence would measure better? The woofer published FR was better from what i remember but not sure how the CD would behave loaded there.

Beastaudio built a coax surround on here not sure what his finished FR looked like though.....

I can understand guys wanting the schematics, but since they are contingent on buying a SEOS from Erich anyway, what is the point? Beyond that, I don't think there is any reason to get indignant (if I'm inferring something that is not there I apologize). How these crossover plans are handled are between the designers and Erich. If you want things handled differently, develop your own crossover or have one commissioned.

Mrkazador-

How big can you go with your surrounds? The Daniels can be made very shallow and you will have very wide vertical nulls so your vertical coverage will be excellent. This is generally more important for surrounds than L/C/Rs because you are generally closer to the surrounds.

Coax surrounds can be nice, but I don't know of many designs and the higher quality drivers are expensive. I think the Daniels are a far better route and still pretty small.

One point which is relevant to me since I live in Europe is that all the bits and pieces needed for the build will be cheaper to buy within Europe.
I am already sitting on SEOS-15, bought directly from Autotech so for me it would be great to be able to buy schematics only.

The SEOS-15 is deeper than the SEOS-12 and wouldn't work with some designs that use the SEOS-12. I know at least both of Jeff's crossover designs deal with the proper alignment and depth of the compression driver versus the woofer. The reason why I decided it was best to include the baffle on these kits was because they are cut with the exact recesses used in the original design.

As mentioned by Geddes, the newer B&C DE250's don't test quite as nice as the older models. I agree with him on that because I tested my DNA-360's against an older model DE250. They are pretty much dead on except the 360's have a better top end. But both newer DE250's I've got seem to have a dip around 12khz (I think that was the frequency). Geddes will likely rework his crossovers to deal with that dip. Later I can post the comparisons between the 2 models. I did send a 360 to Geddes and he complimented me for being able to nail the older DE250 response.

All of these designs deal with the DNA-360 because it does test better on the higher end. And because I test every single CD before I fill an order, I know they are correct for the designs. I would have no issues dropping in a DE250 into some of these speaker kits. But if I was spending $300+, I'd probably want to make sure the CD I had was exactly like the one used in the original design. And of course that the recess on the components lined up like the original model as well.

Good point Erich if all these new designs are for SEOS-12.

I think there has to be an understanding that Erich is putting significant effort into getting these designs completed. He recruited top notch designers and likely supplied them with drivers to work with. IMO, Erich can do as he pleases with the designs in accordance with whatever agreement he has with the designers.

things are looking good Erich. i like how the kits are layed out by size/price. cant wait untill its all up there with some notes about each model and why one may be better/costs more than another.


also you can send me that stuff we talked about whenever you want. im out of town for work right now with nothing at all to do. so i might as well play around in photoshop while i watch crappy hotel TV

+2