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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 206

post #6151 of 7512
12/11/12 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinF View Post

Thanks for everyone's explanation. That really helps!
Erich H- When you have 2 B&C 8" Speaker kits ready to go I'll take them and add a little extra for helping the community.


Those aren't going to be really cheap because the woofer itself is about $100, the compression driver around $35. I can't recall the price of the crossover right now, but I believe it was around $45. Then the waveguide, slot ports, Paypal fee, etc. I think it's around $195 before the box? Because MTG-90 and I wanted to keep the weight as low as possible, but still nice and strong, the box itself was made out of 1/2" Baltic birch with one horizontal and one vertical brace. The baffle is 3/4" mdf. They look nice.

The reason I haven't listed the exact price was because the CNC company hasn't given me the price for the cabinets yet. I have them here along with the baffles, but their machine had a bearing go out 2 weeks ago half way through the run. They said we'd settle up later. They are cutting the remaining baffles today. I can always guess at the price if you want them early.
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post #6152 of 7512
12/11/12 at 10:54am
Hey guys. Since Erich is trying to fill up the last remaining space on the pallet from Poland, I'm trying to decide which waveguide to go with AE TD10M for smaller surrounds (12-13"W). There's the SEOS-10 with recommended xo freq. of 1600Hz and the SEOS-AT1 @1400Hz. I'll be using the 4550. Any insight would be great! I'd like to order a pair before the pallet ships. biggrin.gif

Erich, would it even be possible at this stage to order them in black...the FG ones. Thanks!
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post #6153 of 7512
12/11/12 at 11:18am
RB-

The AT1 looks like a good horn for your use. I'd prefer it over the SEOS-10 because it will hold pattern lower. It has less roundover of course, so it is a tradeoff.

Why the 4550 instead of DNA-360?
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post #6154 of 7512
12/11/12 at 11:40am
Thanks, Max. Well, I bought a 4550 a while back for use in my mains until Bill developed the xo for the TD12M and 360. I ended up buying the 360's for my mains. biggrin.gif I'd really like to try a passive crossover for my surrounds. I found assembling the xo was the most enjoyable part of my build and I'd like to move forward. I've been learning PCD using Bill's frd and zma files including the offset values he posed and tracing the response curves inputting values from his schematic. It's a lot to learn and it's my hope to gain some knowledge. We pm'd about this a while back, but I'll certainly need some assistance. I'd like to start a thread once I have all the drivers (I already have the box modeled), post measurements, and work through PCD systematically for the group to see/advise. Too much, too soon for a noob? You can be honest! tongue.gif

Erich,

Is it too late to order the AT1 in black?
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post #6155 of 7512
12/11/12 at 12:39pm
RB-

The 4550 driver is excellent. I was just curious. I definitely encourage you to design your own passive. Once you start tinkering you will realize it is not all that tough. Of course you have to enjoy the tinkering and the process.
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post #6156 of 7512
12/11/12 at 1:07pm
Thanks for the encouragement. What do you guys do measuring frequency response when it's 10 degrees outside? Wait until spring? I should have the TD10's pretty soon according to John's latest post. The only thing left is the waveguide and the Omnimic v2.
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post #6157 of 7512
12/11/12 at 1:55pm
Coctostan is the only person in the US that gets the gloss black finish on the poured concrete SEOS-15. I bought them with the last pallet and they no longer make any poured waveguides in that gloss finish.

It's not too late to order anything right now. The AT1 can be ordered in poured concrete resin, or fiberglass. If you want anything other than matte white, you'd have to go with the fiberglass though.
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post #6158 of 7512
12/11/12 at 2:01pm
Lucky devil, that coctostan. biggrin.gif

Ok. I need two AT1's in fiberglass, Black. How do I order it, need me to just PayPal you? Let me know $$$. Thanks, man.
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post #6159 of 7512
12/11/12 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

the compression driver around $35.

When are these going to be on the site? I need to order a pair and a few other things as soon as these are listed.
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post #6160 of 7512
12/11/12 at 5:25pm
Great!

Not sure which you mean by "the boards", but I'm interested in the ones for the TD12M/360/SEOS-12.

Is that particular one, or the generic board that will accommodate its components, be included?

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Forum member Bwaslo hasn't been feeling the best in the past week. Once he feels better, he's going to design the actual crossover boards so I can send them to the manufacturer. After that, it should only take about 2.5 weeks to get them in. Obviously they aren't needed to make the kits. If you don't know how to solder them up, I'm sure a forum member could help. Right now, I just don't have the time to do that.
I'm guessing the boards will cost about $10 extra, depends on shipping. Worst case, if you really needed them I can ship the boards in an mid sized envelope once they arrive.
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post #6161 of 7512
12/11/12 at 5:53pm
I don't think there's going to be an actual crossover board created for that A&E model because the boards are pretty expensive and I have to order at least 100 of them per design. I think the crossover was already posted for that wasn't it?


Tux, I have them, just not listed on the site yet. Let me know what you need and I'll get things packed up this week.
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post #6162 of 7512
12/11/12 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I don't think there's going to be an actual crossover board created for that A&E model because the boards are pretty expensive and I have to order at least 100 of them per design.

Oh OK, then I'll just use plexiglass or phenolic.
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post #6163 of 7512
12/11/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I don't think there's going to be an actual crossover board created for that A&E model because the boards are pretty expensive and I have to order at least 100 of them per design. I think the crossover was already posted for that wasn't it?
Tux, I have them, just not listed on the site yet. Let me know what you need and I'll get things packed up this week.

I don't know about that. It seems to me that there are quite few people on here that are interested in the a&e model. I for one would order 3, that means you would only have to have to sell 97 others. Now...having said that I am not willing to pay up when 97 other orders are not made. tongue.gif
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post #6164 of 7512
12/11/12 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Oh OK, then I'll just use plexiglass or phenolic.
MDF works fine too.
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post #6165 of 7512
12/11/12 at 8:24pm
The winter packaging room is now complete!

Last year wasn't so fun packaging things up in the cold. So last month when I stopped the ordering on the site, I spent time finishing up this room and putting in insulation. I also moved in some shelves to store woofers and parts for the kits minus waveguides and horns. I haven't moved the compression drivers in here yet simply because I need to get some stronger shelves that can support their weight. biggrin.gif


There are 2 full shelves over to the left that aren't in the photo and a computer desk to the right for surfing the interwebz and printing shipping labels. The room is roughly 12' x 21'.








Flat packs are outside this room.......because there's no way they would all fit. I might post a photo of those in the next couple weeks once the subwoofer flat packs are done. Right now I think there are about 19 pallets of flat packs, maybe more. That doesn't count the heavy duty shelves that also have flat packs stacked up.
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post #6166 of 7512
12/11/12 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

MDF works fine too.

Sure, as would any non-conductor, but it scorches easily and looks kind of cheap.
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post #6167 of 7512
12/11/12 at 8:48pm
I have one of those shelves in the garage.

Those things aren't cheap and can add up quickly. lol

Glad to see you got a nice office there Erich.


biggrin.gif
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post #6168 of 7512
12/12/12 at 1:42am

Would the Delta Pro 12A fit in the 1.15cu ft flat pack? Concerned about the middle brace and the depth of the driver which is 6.22"

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/1-15-seos-flat-pack.html

 

For a QTC of .706, the driver only needs 1 cu ft for an F3 of ~105hz. Crossed over to my quad sealed subs at 100hz would make a nice setup I think. Too bad I can't buy anything right now, have to wait for tax return.

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post #6169 of 7512
12/12/12 at 6:04am
If there's a chosen box size for a sealed version of the Delta Pro 12A, I can get it made very quickly and make sure everything fits.


Maybe a 1.5cuft shallow tall box would be a better option? If so, just let me know.
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post #6170 of 7512
12/12/12 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If there's a chosen box size for a sealed version of the Delta Pro 12A, I can get it made very quickly and make sure everything fits.
Maybe a 1.5cuft shallow tall box would be a better option? If so, just let me know.



That sounds like a good idea.

1.5cf box. Sealed the bottom chamber to make it .75cf just for the woofer.

I can't remember it was LTD02 or some one else that came up with sealed vs ported columes for several popular woofers, and .75cf seems to work pretty well.

If this can be made and shipping doesn't cost too much, I would definitely like to get 3.
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post #6171 of 7512
12/12/12 at 7:38am
Erich H - you have pm on 2 B&C 8" Speaker kits. Looking forward to building these.
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post #6172 of 7512
12/12/12 at 12:07pm
I've started my in-wall builds. Details over on diysoundgroup.com/forum/

Sounds incredible. Really really enjoying it.

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post #6173 of 7512
12/12/12 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Maybe a 1.5cuft shallow tall box would be a better option? If so, just let me know.

I would like to see a shallow sealed flat pack on the site. The 2cu ft sealed box is pretty deep at 16.75".

 

The Definimax 4012HO and Delta Pro 12A work well in a small sealed enclosure, 0.75 - 1.0cu ft. The Delta 12A wants a 1.7cu ft enclosure for sealed but can go lower like 1.3 - 1.5cu ft. If you want to make a shallow sealed box for the 12" woofers then maybe an enclosure with the dimensions of 14.5x24x12 would work. After bracing and double baffle, should be around 1.50 - 1.55cu ft. With driver and waveguide in place, you're looking at 1.3 - 1.4cu ft.

 

1000

 

Another option is to make a box that is 14.5x21x12" which would work fine for the Definimax and Pro 12a. This way you can use the front and rear baffles that you already have.


Edited by Mrkazador - 12/12/12 at 2:55pm
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post #6174 of 7512
12/12/12 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If there's a chosen box size for a sealed version of the Delta Pro 12A, I can get it made very quickly and make sure everything fits.
Maybe a 1.5cuft shallow tall box would be a better option? If so, just let me know.

I measured the T/S paramters of my actual Delta Pro 12-A's and using a very accurate sealed box modeling program biggrin.gif - the driver will work nicely in a 1 cu ft sealed box. F3 would be 103Hz but F6 is 77Hz, and F10 is 58Hz. The Qtc with typical fill included is .74 (this is based on .4 Ohm series resistance in the crossover too).

Using the existing baffle width but shortening it to just below the woofer, and taking Erich's extra thick baffle are bracing into consideration I come up with a box of these dimension: 14.5" W x 21" T x 11" D.

The current crossover will work, it's just that the bass will not be as extended. Should be fine for subwoofers though.

Jeff B.
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post #6175 of 7512
12/12/12 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've started my in-wall builds. Details over on diysoundgroup.com/forum/
Sounds incredible. Really really enjoying it.

thats what Im talking about!
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post #6176 of 7512
12/12/12 at 4:00pm
One reason I decided to make the baffles separate from the kit was so that you could order ported or sealed, and then pick the correct box that goes with that baffle. With the SEOS being the widest part, all boxes for the 10" and 12" models are the same width. So with maybe 4 box sizes, we could wipe out quite a few different speaker designs. A box for a big sealed 12" could be used for a ported 10" and vice versa.

There's some good news about the smaller cabinets for Jeffs speakers. The current box for the ported 10" Delta model is 1.25 cuft gross, and roughly 1.15 cuft net. With the big Definimax, it would likely be just a bit over 1.1 cuft. I'll have to check the bracing and see if it will work with some tweaks. I'll get it done very soon. The box itself is pretty much exactly the size needed for both models.


In the PDF file that lists recommended box sizes for the Definimax, they have the small ported box netting 1.1 cuft tuned to 60hz which gives a F3 of 60hz with a 600 watt power handling. My guess is that this speaker would absolutely beat you to a pulp with it's mid bass punch. biggrin.gif I like it.

Because there would be no room on the front for the ports, they could be ported out the side like some others have done with the 12" Deltalite. Of course out the back would work if you weren't putting them up against the wall.

The PDF file for the Delta Pro says it can also be ported in that small of enclosure to get an F3 around 86hz.
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post #6177 of 7512
12/12/12 at 4:16pm
Erich will you be flat packing a box for the Tempest and Zephyr kits that measures 14.5" wide x 26" tall x 13.5" deep as per the speaker notes for them?

also any update on the BB sub flatpacks?
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post #6178 of 7512
12/12/12 at 4:23pm
I apologize for not making it all the way through the 206 pages, but I'm planning yet another econowave build, and love the look of the SEOS waveguides and DIY sound group baffles. However, I have my own CNC and do most of my own fabricating to keep the cost low on my projects (or rather, amortize the CNC cost over more projects!).

I'm not sure if this is that kind of project or not, but are the 3D models for the SEOS waveguide available, or a description of the mathematical model of the shape? I can 3D profile it out of MDF fairly quickly, and would be a fun way to integrate it directly into the painted baffles.

I'm certainly not interested in commercial production (even on a hobby scale) - this would just be for personal use.

Thanks,
Sam
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post #6179 of 7512
12/12/12 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I've started my in-wall builds. Details over on diysoundgroup.com/forum/
Sounds incredible. Really really enjoying it

*frantically searches for stud finder*
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post #6180 of 7512
12/12/12 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

One reason I decided to make the baffles separate from the kit was so that you could order ported or sealed, and then pick the correct box that goes with that baffle. With the SEOS being the widest part, all boxes for the 10" and 12" models are the same width. So with maybe 4 box sizes, we could wipe out quite a few different speaker designs. A box for a big sealed 12" could be used for a ported 10" and vice versa.
There's some good news about the smaller cabinets for Jeffs speakers. The current box for the ported 10" Delta model is 1.25 cuft gross, and roughly 1.15 cuft net. With the big Definimax, it would likely be just a bit over 1.1 cuft. I'll have to check the bracing and see if it will work with some tweaks. I'll get it done very soon. The box itself is pretty much exactly the size needed for both models.
In the PDF file that lists recommended box sizes for the Definimax, they have the small ported box netting 1.1 cuft tuned to 60hz which gives a F3 of 60hz with a 600 watt power handling. My guess is that this speaker would absolutely beat you to a pulp with it's mid bass punch. biggrin.gif I like it.
Because there would be no room on the front for the ports, they could be ported out the side like some others have done with the 12" Deltalite. Of course out the back would work if you weren't putting them up against the wall.
The PDF file for the Delta Pro says it can also be ported in that small of enclosure to get an F3 around 86hz.

If you can fit the delta pro 12a and definimax in the 10" ported flat pack, it would be perfect.
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