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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 221

post #6601 of 7536
1/18/13 at 11:24am
Well I have to say that I wasn't expecting the amount of orders right off the bat. As of right now, if you order something today it will likely take about a week before I get to it. But weekends usually go pretty good, so who knows. No doubt I'm going to need to find some help.

I think 40 waveguide speakers were ordered in about 2 weeks, maybe more. It takes me a decent amount of time to wrap up a pair, and many need more than one shipping box. I also have to cut some boxes to the right size for baffles and things like that. But I'm working through it. biggrin.gif I had a thread to track what I was currently working on, but then so many orders came in that it didn't make much sense to update the thread.

What I do want to do is make a page on the site called 'website stats' or something like that. I'll update it every couple weeks to show the number of packages going out, and how much is getting donated to designers or charities. Also keep track of the number of speaker kits ordered as well.

I lost about 2 days this week because my girlfriend had a death in her family. I'm trying to get to all the questions, but it will likely be Monday before I get completely caught up. I just need to get a little ahead on the kits by packaging some things up before the orders come in.

Heck, I haven't even had a chance to bug Mr. Bwaslo with another audio question for almost a week! biggrin.gif
Edited by Erich H - 1/18/13 at 11:31am
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post #6602 of 7536
1/18/13 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Well I have to say that I wasn't expecting the amount of orders right off the bat. As of right now, if you order something today it will likely take about a week before I get to it...

OK, and please don't think I'm suggesting anything was too slow. Just wondering what sort of feedback might be available.

And, of course, my luck... I post that and I THEN see you'd already shipped and emailed me. redface.gif

 

Oh well. If it's normally about a week, it's probably not worth a "Current Order Number Processed" display. 

 

I missed the "Donate to Designer" option when I checked out, so I should try to do that another way, or maybe I can go directly to donate?

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post #6603 of 7536
1/18/13 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post


I missed the "Donate to Designer" option when I checked out, so I should try to do that another way, or maybe I can go directly to donate?

I don't think there is a 'donate to designer' button. $5 - $15 is built into the price.
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post #6604 of 7536
1/18/13 at 1:16pm
I was thinking about ordering the Deltalite-12 kit and noticed you can upgrade to a complete flat kit but I don't see any place to select it. There are flat packs for sale but they are the wrong size. Am I missing something?
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post #6605 of 7536
1/18/13 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

iirc, smokarz is doing a sealed cab. Even then, the 1ft^3 enclosure after driver displacement may not model too well, F3 @ ~114hz. I'd opt to port it at the sides or back if possible. I do like how compact they would be, though. I wouldn't mind building a few different boxes both sealed and vented w/various tunings for testing and measurement, would be pretty fun actually! I'm assuming Erich will do the AE cutouts on a 26" baffle and let people cut them down to whatever flat pack enclosure height they get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

Thanks... I thought about sealed for sometime, however I wasn't sure if I'd get the frequency range I wanted. That's why I was pretty set on the designs you and mike put together.

I could not get small and sealed to go low enough for me. That is why I went ported. It took all of the interior volume of the 10.75" deep boxes using the 26" high baffle to get just over 1.0 CF after said and done.
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post #6606 of 7536
1/18/13 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfam View Post

I was thinking about ordering the Deltalite-12 kit and noticed you can upgrade to a complete flat kit but I don't see any place to select it. There are flat packs for sale but they are the wrong size. Am I missing something?


I think eric is still in the works on adding more flat packs. He did say there will be flat packs for all kits. I thought I saw a flat pack for the deltalite but it disappeared when the "updated" flat packs were addedtongue.gif

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post #6607 of 7536
1/18/13 at 2:59pm
Can someone either explain to me or show me were I can read up on the EOS-08 used in the Minion? I am curious as to what is Different about it as obviously it's not an SEOS right?

The reason I ask is just before I decided to to look at building the Tempests I had set up DSX Wides with matching Energy speakers all the way across the front and I liked how the DSX Wides sound and so did my wife. But I am thinking that replacing the mains with the Tempests and keeping Energy's as Wides will not blend so well and more than likely that by the nature of the SEOS speakers being such a different quality league from the Energys they will negate the impact the Wides are having in my current setup. So thinking ahead I am thinking that if I do want to have Wides with the Tempests that it would be best to have something timbre matched but it would need to be more like the size of the Minion. I think i have seen some talk of an SEOS 8? Is that something down the line?

Sorry if those are some jumbled thoughts but trying to make some informed plans as I reconfigure the room to accommodate the Tempests

Thanks!
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post #6608 of 7536
1/18/13 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit73 View Post

Can someone either explain to me or show me were I can read up on the EOS-08 used in the Minion? I am curious as to what is Different about it as obviously it's not an SEOS right?

The reason I ask is just before I decided to to look at building the Tempests I had set up DSX Wides with matching Energy speakers all the way across the front and I liked how the DSX Wides sound and so did my wife. But I am thinking that replacing the mains with the Tempests and keeping Energy's as Wides will not blend so well and more than likely that by the nature of the SEOS speakers being such a different quality league from the Energys they will negate the impact the Wides are having in my current setup. So thinking ahead I am thinking that if I do want to have Wides with the Tempests that it would be best to have something timbre matched but it would need to be more like the size of the Minion. I think i have seen some talk of an SEOS 8? Is that something down the line?

Sorry if those are some jumbled thoughts but trying to make some informed plans as I reconfigure the room to accommodate the Tempests

Thanks!



Why not get 9 Tempests? Then you would be voiced match across the entire spectrum. tongue.gif
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post #6609 of 7536
1/18/13 at 3:11pm
The biggest "voice" difference you're going to hear is directional, or non-directional. Your energy's are not directional. But the minion and the tempest are.

Between the minion and the tempest, different designer, different waveguide, different CD, different woofer, and different cab. Different speaker. Will it matter. Probably not. In fact, it may not be a problem using the Energys. I've never heard DSX, but if the wides are just a spatial thing, perhaps it's ok to run a "omni" type speaker for those spots.
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post #6610 of 7536
1/18/13 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Why not get 9 Tempests? Then you would be voiced match across the entire spectrum. tongue.gif

LOL That would be awesome, unfortunately there is too much space in my wallet and not enough in my room to do that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

The biggest "voice" difference you're going to hear is directional, or non-directional. Your energy's are not directional. But the minion and the tempest are.

Between the minion and the tempest, different designer, different waveguide, different CD, different woofer, and different cab. Different speaker. Will it matter. Probably not. In fact, it may not be a problem using the Energys. I've never heard DSX, but if the wides are just a spatial thing, perhaps it's ok to run a "omni" type speaker for those spots.

Thanks for the details, as far as the DSX goes it sounds to me more like a spatial thing similar to the surrounds, Audyssey recommends that they be of the same speaker family but anyway I will just experiment with it after I build the Tempests as that will already eat up theatre funds for a while so any extra SEOS speakers are a ways off.

On a more relevant topic to the Tempests I have some placement questions. Listening is about 80% Movies/20% Music. My room is 12' wide so I will have the option of placing the L & R either outside of the screen very near the walls or inside the screen with the center, the screen is ~9' wide. Seating distance is ~11'. outside the screen will put them @ about 30 degrees and inside more like 19 degrees. I have researched this but most answers are obviously not specific towards this type of speaker design and opinions range from technically correct positions vs sacrificing proper two channel placement for having the speakers anchor the sounds at the insides edges of the screen and am just wondering if any thing would be different in that respect (Waveguide.) If i have read BWaslo's waveguide setup pdf correct then the Tempests will actually be better near the corners with Toe in than my current towers.

Thanks again for the all opinions guys!
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post #6611 of 7536
1/18/13 at 3:41pm
The SEOS-10 and larger sizes seem to have the most advantage for actually using the SEOS shape.

The SEOS-8 is pretty small and it's designed a little different than the other larger models. It's deeper and it's roundovers weren't as big. There was a reason for that, but I'm not the best to explain it.

Basically, the EOS-8 works pretty much like the SEOS-8 since they're both under the magic 10" size. There's not much reason for me to consider getting anything smaller than a 10" model made up. Eventually I might look into getting the SEOS-10 made up in plastic so people think I've lost my mind. biggrin.gif
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post #6612 of 7536
1/18/13 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfam View Post

I was thinking about ordering the Deltalite-12 kit and noticed you can upgrade to a complete flat kit but I don't see any place to select it. There are flat packs for sale but they are the wrong size. Am I missing something?


I've got some of those flat packs, so no problem. But Jeff Bagby's design uses a ported 2 cuft box. BWaslo's designs uses a sealed 2 cuft box. So I'm debating on just getting new baffles made for the taller shallow 2 cuft ported box....without the ports. That's one reason they aren't listed right now. But if you wanted the original short and deeper box, I've got them.


Here's the short term plan: I get caught up on packaging this weekend. Next week is the starting point for a lot of subwoofer boxes and remaining SEOS boxes to begin pouring in. I've actually had a friend help me move things around to make room for what's coming. I'll start uploading photos and giving better descriptions as they come. Then mapping which kits go with which boxes and things like that. It's going to be hard to update the site for the next couple days.
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post #6613 of 7536
1/18/13 at 5:01pm
Erich or Matt, or anyone else who may be able to help. I have started building my Sentinels tonight and assuming I love them, which I am sure I will, I have to take the next step in my Seos journey. I know you are both going to say that I'm nuts, and you are both probably right, but I am going to do it anyway. biggrin.gif I just can't get past the idea of not having all of the speaker being exactly the same component wise. The only other thought I had would be to use the seos 12 with 360CD and the 8" B&C, but that would only work for me if the crossover form the sentinel would work, as I don't have the ability yet to design my own. If that is not an option, then I move to the below questions.

I figured I could alter the demensions of the boxes but keep the same overall volume and make them fit my constraints. I have the slot port version up front, but I assume could utilize the round ports on the others to make them fit without sacrificing performance..?? If that is the case, I can make them shallow enought to fit inside the pillars that will be on the sides and back wall. If I made enclosures at 42" high x 16.5"wide x 10" deep it will yield me the same volume. As long as there is a way to make the ports work some how, whether on the front or a side panel (the sides of the pillars will also be A/T material, so no worries on them being blocked). Thoughts?? Thanks as always to all.
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post #6614 of 7536
1/18/13 at 5:49pm
Because you're crazy..biggrin.gif...and thinking about using them for surrounds, maybe you could go sealed in a smaller enclosure. Of course the designer would have to verify that.

I think you should wait until you build the first 3 so you can understand the volume these are capable of.
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post #6615 of 7536
1/18/13 at 6:39pm
How hard is it to build the crossover?
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post #6616 of 7536
1/18/13 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Erich or Matt, or anyone else who may be able to help. I have started building my Sentinels tonight and assuming I love them, which I am sure I will, I have to take the next step in my Seos journey. I know you are both going to say that I'm nuts, and you are both probably right, but I am going to do it anyway. biggrin.gif I just can't get past the idea of not having all of the speaker being exactly the same component wise. The only other thought I had would be to use the seos 12 with 360CD and the 8" B&C, but that would only work for me if the crossover form the sentinel would work, as I don't have the ability yet to design my own. If that is not an option, then I move to the below questions.

I figured I could alter the demensions of the boxes but keep the same overall volume and make them fit my constraints. I have the slot port version up front, but I assume could utilize the round ports on the others to make them fit without sacrificing performance..?? If that is the case, I can make them shallow enought to fit inside the pillars that will be on the sides and back wall. If I made enclosures at 42" high x 16.5"wide x 10" deep it will yield me the same volume. As long as there is a way to make the ports work some how, whether on the front or a side panel (the sides of the pillars will also be A/T material, so no worries on them being blocked). Thoughts?? Thanks as always to all.

Running the Sentinel sealed is definitely doable, but I think the round ports are 6" long so they should work as well in a 10" deep enclosure. The 8" B&C in with the SEOS-12 and DNA-360 would need a new crossover. I may have a quick way to cook one up if you wanted to go that route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

How hard is it to build the crossover?

If you can follow a schematic and know how to solder it should not be very hard to do. Really the only thing you need to worry about is the placement of coils and how to minimize any coupling.

Have a look here for general crossover assembly:
http://www.parts-express.com/resources/building-a-crossover.cfm

And here for coil placement:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm
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post #6617 of 7536
1/18/13 at 8:00pm
I'm surprised we haven't seen more people posting pictures of their cross overs for checking. People should, no ones going to laugh if there's a mistake. And then it'll get done right and the builder can feel confident it's right.
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post #6618 of 7536
1/18/13 at 8:08pm
FWIW I would also be interested in the 8" B&C with seos12/dna360 combo. Chop - I would go in on an order of custom baffles and crossover stuff if you want?

If Matt wanted to take on the project of the crossover I know I would be willing to kick in some donation funds.
Edited by Gorilla83 - 1/18/13 at 8:21pm
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post #6619 of 7536
1/18/13 at 8:36pm
Just out of curiosity, why would you want the DNA-360 paired with an 8" woofer and the smaller waveguide? The DNA-205 works really good for that speaker, and it can handle some high volumes. I think the Alpha-8 can handle over 300 watts with a peak around 120db.

If you wanted a 'smaller' speaker using the 350 or 360, the Fusion-10 from Tuxedocivic is there.
Edited by Erich H - 1/18/13 at 8:48pm
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post #6620 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:20pm

SEOS-12, DNA-360, AE TD12M front stage. Mains have a side mounted SB Acoustic 10" woofer. Big step up in coherence and dynamics from my previous setup.
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post #6621 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I'm surprised we haven't seen more people posting pictures of their cross overs for checking. People should, no ones going to laugh if there's a mistake. And then it'll get done right and the builder can feel confident it's right.

once i start building i foresee many posts/PMs about xovers
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post #6622 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post


SEOS-12, DNA-360, AE TD12M front stage. Mains have a side mounted SB Acoustic 10" woofer. Big step up in coherence and dynamics from my previous setup.

Nice those look great!!
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post #6623 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

once i start building i foresee many posts/PMs about xovers

+10 for me too biggrin.gif
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post #6624 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:48pm
Ya a 360 mated to a 8" woofer is a little bit of a waste of resources. At least allow yourself to step down to the 350. If its about timbre matching, try listening to 10 different designs using the 150, 205, 350, and 360 and you'll see (hear) it doesn't matter. The change in woofer, baffle size, cross over, and waveguide will swamp any match the 360 would offer.
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post #6625 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post


SEOS-12, DNA-360, AE TD12M front stage. Mains have a side mounted SB Acoustic 10" woofer. Big step up in coherence and dynamics from my previous setup.
As Vader would say: Impressive.
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post #6626 of 7536
1/18/13 at 9:56pm
Re: 8" B&C SEOS-12/ & 350/360 combo, thinking about this some more there really is not all that much to gain by doing this, just a lot more in cost. The SEOS-12 will not offer much improvement in directivity because the 8" still needs to crossover pretty high for a DI matchup and I think the 350/360 sound really close to the 205. I recently sat and listened to both the Minion and Sentinel side by side, and in the midrange they are almost identical. I even ran both engaged at the same time and they blended real well, as in it sounded like the source was between the two speakers not like it was separate speakers playing the same music.

Sometimes I get caught up in "I can do somthing like that" and don't stop to think if it is really worth the trouble. biggrin.gif
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post #6627 of 7536
1/18/13 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

FWIW I would also be interested in the 8" B&C with seos12/dna360 combo. Chop - I would go in on an order of custom baffles and crossover stuff if you want?

If Matt wanted to take on the project of the crossover I know I would be willing to kick in some donation funds.

I would say the same, simply because I was worried about timbre match. The below statements lead me to believe that maybe we are over thinking this and making it harder than it is. I am going to place an order for two minions right now. When I come down for the GTG we can throw them in with the Sentinels and see how they sound together. I can test them with mine prior, but figured you may want to hear them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Just out of curiosity, why would you want the DNA-360 paired with an 8" woofer and the smaller waveguide? The DNA-205 works really good for that speaker, and it can handle some high volumes. I think the Alpha-8 can handle over 300 watts with a peak around 120db.

If you wanted a 'smaller' speaker using the 350 or 360, the Fusion-10 from Tuxedocivic is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Ya a 360 mated to a 8" woofer is a little bit of a waste of resources. At least allow yourself to step down to the 350. If its about timbre matching, try listening to 10 different designs using the 150, 205, 350, and 360 and you'll see (hear) it doesn't matter. The change in woofer, baffle size, cross over, and waveguide will swamp any match the 360 would offer.

Again guys, you know more than I do, I was just thinking about the ideal, 100% matching system. I know that the Sentinels are overkill, just was worried about matching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Re: 8" B&C SEOS-12/ & 350/360 combo, thinking about this some more there really is not all that much to gain by doing this, just a lot more in cost. The SEOS-12 will not offer much improvement in directivity because the 8" still needs to crossover pretty high for a DI matchup and I think the 350/360 sound really close to the 205. I recently sat and listened to both the Minion and Sentinel side by side, and in the midrange they are almost identical. I even ran both engaged at the same time and they blended real well, as in it sounded like the source was between the two speakers not like it was separate speakers playing the same music.

Sometimes I get caught up in "I can do somthing like that" and don't stop to think if it is really worth the trouble. biggrin.gif

If I could get away with the minions, the smaller form factor and cost are attractive. I get caught up easily too and I think that is why I brought this up. As I said, I am just going to order two minions as well tonight so that we can take the time to listen to them all together. In the grand scheme, $400 to test them out is a small investment.
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post #6628 of 7536
1/19/13 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Is there any demand for lower effeciency deep bass designs? Ever since Gauranteed EV suggested one of the large SB Acoustic woofers I've wanted to see it done. I'd do it in my living room in a heart beat, but the price is a bit high for me.

Just curious.

Here's a kind of crazy concept I've been working on. Thinking along the lines of the type of performance one would expect from mega buck audiophile speakers. Bring your 500 watt 4 ohm amp biggrin.gif


(center circle is the EOS10

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post #6629 of 7536
1/19/13 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post


SEOS-12, DNA-360, AE TD12M front stage. Mains have a side mounted SB Acoustic 10" woofer. Big step up in coherence and dynamics from my previous setup.

Very nice looking, and I'm sure very nice sounding.
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post #6630 of 7536
1/19/13 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

How hard is it to build the crossover?

I am a complete noob and I built 6.

As a noob, the hardest part is translating the schematic to a layout. I put together this draft layout on my SEOS surround crossover build (still need to update...)

Crossover Layout.pdf 4230k .pdf file
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