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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 222

post #6631 of 7520
1/19/13 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

I am a complete noob and I built 6.

As a noob, the hardest part is translating the schematic to a layout. I put together this draft layout on my SEOS surround crossover build (still need to update...)

Crossover Layout.pdf 4230k .pdf file

Also, if you've never soldered before then practice some on spare wires until you get comfortable with it.
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post #6632 of 7520
1/19/13 at 6:50am
Wasn't there a dual B&C 8 and SEOS 15 in the works?
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post #6633 of 7520
1/19/13 at 7:19am
For those who want timbre match, have the space, but DON'T have much budget (obviously doesn't apply to chop shop and gorilla), check this out.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0

It's a SEOS waveguide in a box with a similar diffraction signature to the big boys but uses way cheaper parts. It is honestly better than it should be. Blows me away for the money and hits 80/90hz sealed. Would make a great match to one of the 12" SEOS designs or a Fusion Pure/Max.

It's a good idea, IMO, to spend more on your mains than surrounds. 2:1 wouldn't be out of the question IMO.
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post #6634 of 7520
1/19/13 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

... try listening to 10 different designs using the 150, 205, 350, and 360 and you'll see (hear) it doesn't matter. The change in woofer, baffle size, cross over, and waveguide will swamp any match the 360 would offer.

Good to know.
Edited by zheka - 1/19/13 at 7:49am
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post #6635 of 7520
1/19/13 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Ya a 360 mated to a 8" woofer is a little bit of a waste of resources. At least allow yourself to step down to the 350. If its about timbre matching, try listening to 10 different designs using the 150, 205, 350, and 360 and you'll see (hear) it doesn't matter. The change in woofer, baffle size, cross over, and waveguide will swamp any match the 360 would offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Just out of curiosity, why would you want the DNA-360 paired with an 8" woofer and the smaller waveguide? The DNA-205 works really good for that speaker, and it can handle some high volumes. I think the Alpha-8 can handle over 300 watts with a peak around 120db.

If you wanted a 'smaller' speaker using the 350 or 360, the Fusion-10 from Tuxedocivic is there.

Thanks for the input guys. Like others, I was mainly concerned with timbre matching the horn with the mains. If you're saying that it sound the same and there are no perceived benefits, then I'm good with that.

Now for a ghetto attempt at a crossover. frown.gif


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post #6636 of 7520
1/19/13 at 7:48am
Not ghetto IMO. I'd be embarrassed to show you my mess I call tidy. Haha, I have only used hot melt glue and a board once ever. I usually just glue them to the bottom of the enclosure.

Your xo looks right by the way. That's without seeing the schematic. Matt can confirm. Sentinel right?
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post #6637 of 7520
1/19/13 at 7:53am
Erich delivers

A pair of Iwata 600 arrived at my door this morning. I'll be scheming up a cabinet for the AE TD15M which will work with them.

The other woofers in the shipment appear to be in good shape.
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post #6638 of 7520
1/19/13 at 10:21am
I previously had jtr quint 8s and want something from the flat pack but have some concerns.

My room is small so output will be fine with any of the kits. I have a jtr captivator for my sub and will add a couple sealed si 15 or 18s so bass doesnt matter below 70 or so.

What combo has the best sound stage and mid range?

Does the drop off in the response high up effect music?

Music is be becoming a bigger part of my listening so its a big factor
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post #6639 of 7520
1/19/13 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Not ghetto IMO. I'd be embarrassed to show you my mess I call tidy. Haha, I have only used hot melt glue and a board once ever. I usually just glue them to the bottom of the enclosure.

Your xo looks right by the way. That's without seeing the schematic. Matt can confirm. Sentinel right?

Yep he PM'ed me he is all good, I am just having him move the air core a little futher away from the big solid core.
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post #6640 of 7520
1/19/13 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I previously had jtr quint 8s and want something from the flat pack but have some concerns.

My room is small so output will be fine with any of the kits. I have a jtr captivator for my sub and will add a couple sealed si 15 or 18s so bass doesnt matter below 70 or so.

What combo has the best sound stage and mid range?

Does the drop off in the response high up effect music?

Music is be becoming a bigger part of my listening so its a big factor

The Fusion-10 Pure would be good.
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post #6641 of 7520
1/19/13 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The Fusion-10 Pure would be good.

That small size will be best in sq? Was thinking alpha 12 but maybe im notunderstanding the designs
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post #6642 of 7520
1/19/13 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Yep he PM'ed me he is all good, I am just having him move the air core a little futher away from the big solid core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Not ghetto IMO. I'd be embarrassed to show you my mess I call tidy. Haha, I have only used hot melt glue and a board once ever. I usually just glue them to the bottom of the enclosure.

Your xo looks right by the way. That's without seeing the schematic. Matt can confirm. Sentinel right?

Thanks guys. Hoping to make some permanent connections tomorrow morning. smile.gif
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post #6643 of 7520
1/19/13 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

That small size will be best in sq? Was thinking alpha 12 but maybe im notunderstanding the designs

They all have good 'sound stage' and midrange. But you mentioned that your room was small and that output would be fine with any of the kits. So that would make me lean more towards the 10" models with the mid sized compression driver.
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post #6644 of 7520
1/19/13 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Yep he PM'ed me he is all good, I am just having him move the air core a little futher away from the big solid core.

Shouldn't he also move one of the "flat" air cores so they aren't aligned to each other?
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post #6645 of 7520
1/19/13 at 4:27pm
They're all so far apart it's probably a matter of 0.1mH or less. But the two MTG mentioned is probably a good idea. Moving your head 6" would probably make a bigger difference. But I botch cross overs everyday, so whom am I to say biggrin.gif
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post #6646 of 7520
1/20/13 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I previously had jtr quint 8s and want something from the flat pack but have some concerns.

My room is small so output will be fine with any of the kits. I have a jtr captivator for my sub and will add a couple sealed si 15 or 18s so bass doesnt matter below 70 or so.

What combo has the best sound stage and mid range?

Does the drop off in the response high up effect music?

Music is be becoming a bigger part of my listening so its a big factor

TD12M with SEOS-12 and DNA-360. This combo is very musical. If you can go larger, substitute the TD15M. The TD12M and SEOS-12/DNA-360 is certainly more musical than my 2009 JTR T8's were.
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 1/20/13 at 12:18pm
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post #6647 of 7520
1/20/13 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

TD12M with SEOS-12 and DNA-360. This combo is very musical. If you can go larger, substitute the TD15M. The TD12M and SEOS-12/DNA-360 is certainly more musical than my 2009 JTR T8's were.

Did you have to mod the crosswover?
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post #6648 of 7520
1/20/13 at 10:37pm
Leaning towards a sealed 10 for height. Any zilch 10s in the wild yet?
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post #6649 of 7520
1/20/13 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Leaning towards a sealed 10 for height. Any zilch 10s in the wild yet?

I was adding that one up this evening. It's a pretty expensive speaker due to the woofer price and the crossover is almost $52 with the L-pad. It's listed though. It came out to be about $10 less than retail price. That counts $20 added for his design, which will be going to the Lung Cancer Association.

If that was priced using the aluminum waveguide and B&C DE250, it would be nearly $100 more! So it's good that I was able to source those other waveguides. But I don't have a huge number of them. I pretty much got them for that specific kit.
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post #6650 of 7520
1/21/13 at 1:27am

Is there going to be an option to select a sealed front baffle for the Tempest kit? I'm debating on the Deltalite or Tempest...and it looks like the price of the Deltalite kit went up a bit.

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post #6651 of 7520
1/21/13 at 6:11am
Really intwrested in options for sealed baffles. Can ports be placed on the back?

Height is a real concern
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post #6652 of 7520
1/21/13 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Really intwrested in options for sealed baffles. Can ports be placed on the back?

Height is a real concern

What kind of height are you working with? I went to a slotted port style and it shaved a few inches off the total height without compromising port volume.
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post #6653 of 7520
1/21/13 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Is there going to be an option to select a sealed front baffle for the Tempest kit? I'm debating on the Deltalite or Tempest...and it looks like the price of the Deltalite kit went up a bit.

I'll get that option up today. The price of the Deltalite kit was wrong from the beginning, plus the price before didn't originally include the baffle.

Crossover parts: $54.82
Deltalite: $149.99
DNA-360: $75.50
SEOS: $28
Baffle around $14

Total $322.31

Discount around $50
$272.31

Paypal fee $9.36
Packing material $5
"free shipping" estimated at $25
Designer fee $10

End price should be $321.67. So I'm still about $9 too low. But I have a lot of packing material right now, and I might be able to get 2 kits in one box due to the lighter woofer. So that's why I have it priced even lower. It will likely go up again and I'll type the pricing breakdown on the page so people can see the costs.


For most of these kits, the discount for buying in volume saves almost exactly the amount needed to cover free shipping on everything and Paypal fees. So in the end it adds up to retail price if purchased separately. I really should type that up for each kit so DIY guys can add everything up to see where the price comes from.
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post #6654 of 7520
1/21/13 at 8:06am
Getting closer to building boxes for the Tempests. Thanks Eric for the great packaging! Have a couple of questions...
Ports - are they the correct length as supplied or do I need to trim them?
Box stuffing - Bwaslo did you add stuffing in the Tempests or just an empty box? If stuffed, how much?
Build threads - is there a central location? I'd like to see what others have done and would like to add my own build. I found "MrSmithers" - thanks mrsmithers! Based on his photos and description I'm going with duratex.
Also I'm considering using MDO. A buddy that's been doing some commercial displays/cabinets swears by the stuff. Says is very flat and the ply core seems to be higher quality/fewer voids than regular ply. Description on wikipedia. Anybody use MDO?
Thanks, now if temps would moderate a bit, I could get the garage warm enough to get glue to dry!
Gunther
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post #6655 of 7520
1/21/13 at 8:15am
The Tempest was designed by Jeff Bagby. I do cut the ports down to 6" long before shipping. When Jeff was working with both woofers, he wanted to use the 6" long ports for the Definimax woofer, and 4" long ports for the Delta Pro. That would tune the Delta Pro a little higher and give it some extra kick. But he's since been listening to the Delta Pro (Tempest) with the 6" ports and the woofer itself still gives that extra kick. So as of now, I've been just cutting all of them at 6" long.
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post #6656 of 7520
1/21/13 at 9:21am
Thanks, very interesting and apology's to to Jeff, I knew he was the designer!
What about stuffing? empty box or 1lb each box or?
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post #6657 of 7520
1/21/13 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I'll get that option up today. The price of the Deltalite kit was wrong from the beginning, plus the price before didn't originally include the baffle.

Crossover parts: $54.82
Deltalite: $149.99
DNA-360: $75.50
SEOS: $28
Baffle around $14

Total $322.31

Discount around $50
$272.31

Paypal fee $9.36
Packing material $5
"free shipping" estimated at $25
Designer fee $10

End price should be $321.67. So I'm still about $9 too low. But I have a lot of packing material right now, and I might be able to get 2 kits in one box due to the lighter woofer. So that's why I have it priced even lower. It will likely go up again and I'll type the pricing breakdown on the page so people can see the costs.


For most of these kits, the discount for buying in volume saves almost exactly the amount needed to cover free shipping on everything and Paypal fees. So in the end it adds up to retail price if purchased separately. I really should type that up for each kit so DIY guys can add everything up to see where the price comes from.

Hi Eric,

The deltalite model is interesting.

Since the baffle is 21" tall would the box also be 21" (dumb question but I never built a speaker box so there could be something I'm overlooking)

Are there any plots on it anywhere?

I'm interested in how steep the drop off in mid bass is(if any).
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post #6658 of 7520
1/21/13 at 10:21am
Erich - Am I reading this right? A baltic birch flatpack for the Alpha 8/Minion is only 25.00 shipped? Definitely not worth building my own for that price!

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/eos-8-flat-pack.html

Chop - This is all you, and probably soon to be me too. biggrin.gif
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post #6659 of 7520
1/21/13 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Erich - Am I reading this right? A baltic birch flatpack for the Alpha 8/Minion is only 25.00 shipped? Definitely not worth building my own for that price!

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/eos-8-flat-pack.html

Chop - This is all you, and probably soon to be me too. biggrin.gif

Yup, no reason to make any dust when they can be had this cheap. It is literally only a couple of dollars more. Almost done with the Sentinels, but when I think of how much quicker it would have gone if I bought flat packs...
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post #6660 of 7520
1/21/13 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Erich - Am I reading this right? A baltic birch flatpack for the Alpha 8/Minion is only 25.00 shipped? Definitely not worth building my own for that price!

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/eos-8-flat-pack.html

Chop - This is all you, and probably soon to be me too. biggrin.gif


I wish BB boxes were also made for the bigger SEOS 12 kits. Just love working with BB.
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