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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 226

post #6751 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

are you sure?

It's definitely a smaller than 3" diaphragm
post #6752 of 9844
I was trying to do something nice to remember Zilch since it's been 2 years since he passed away. I was going to pay for the baffle, packing material, screws, gaskets, etc myself and include them for free to actually keep the price well under retail. Then I was going to put another $20 in on top of that to be donated.

It's just that simple. But nothing can be simple anymore, we all know that.

Of course, I do realize I could leave the speaker up and no laws are being broken at all. No one can tell me I can't donate money in memory of Zilch. No one can tell me I can't type his name either. I can do huge write ups showing every project Zilch did, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. But if they don't want his name or design being honored, it's simply not worth the trouble right now. We all know Zilch would have been thrilled to see any kit being even more 'Econo' than the original. Especially if money was being donated to a charity.

Of course they can say 'We don't know if Zilch would have liked that or not.' Well, they can't say he wouldn't either. Regardless, I don't need anyone's permission to donate to a charity in memory of another person. But I'm not going to spend the time to argue something so strange. It's hard to believe I even have to defend the idea at all. It is what it is.

There's really no reason to discuss it much anymore. I removed the photos and his name, and it can't be ordered. I highly doubt that's what Zilch would have wanted, but I tried. rolleyes.gif
post #6753 of 9844
Thread Starter 
yeah, i see erich mentioned 2" back in post #2791. i should have remembered that. :-)
post #6754 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureBASS View Post

With all due respect to Jeff,

Oh, I am not offended in any way, and I very much appreciate what you had to say.

I am also fine with being corrected anytime I may be wrong about something.

Jeff
post #6755 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

yeah, i see erich mentioned 2" back in post #2791. i should have remembered that. :-)

When I initially typed up the product page, I wrote 3", but someone caught the typo and I changed it. I did let people know they can send anything back if they don't like them.

So far, the BA-750 matches up best with the E-JMLC-600. As in flattest response with no EQ. It's pretty crazy looking.

I won't have more of them for a few months. Well, I've got a few left right now, but haven't worked with them.

I considered getting a pallet of stuff shipped here to work on, but I made a different decision in the past week or so that I'll discuss later.

The only other CD I'm working on is for the 1.4" SEOS-24. I've got the CD samples and maybe 5 different diaphragms, but more are coming to test. That's going to be difficult to get something smooth from 600hz all the way up to 18khz. I did get an unusual one with a mylar surround that sounded pretty good, but it did have some significant dips here and there. No reason to do much testing until I get the SEOS-24 to model them with anyway.
post #6756 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by avpassion View Post

Wow! Nice! are we going to have access to that baffle? I am assuming since it is labeled FP15, that it integrates an SEOS 15 with a 15" woofer. Am I correct?

They can be ordered.....but they aren't too cheap. I've got the cut out measurements on my home computer if needed.

The only issue with those front panels is that they can't be ordered in gloss anymore. Only a white matte finish. So they would have to be painted if you wanted a different color.
post #6757 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Only a white matte finish. So they would have to be painted if you wanted a different color.

I thought if I ever opened a bar or brewpub, I'd want to get some large waveguides in matte white and then have an artist paint the waveguide and cabinet. Just something a little crazy looking.
post #6758 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

So, any good news yet on the AE baffles?

I was wondering about that too.
post #6759 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

Any news on the Fusion-8?

I ended up calling it the "Alchemy 8". I used the Eminence Beta 8-A and the Denovo DNA- 205 compression driver with the EOS 8 waveguide. Erich will be posting the graphs and details soon, but I can give a couple of comments. The Beta 8 is a very robust driver for the money and the EOS8 can produce very flat treble response without much coaxing.

It took a little more work in the voicing of the crossover than I expected, but the speaker came out very nice and I am very happy with its sound and with putting my name on it. It is voiced in similar fashion to my other smaller speakers like the Continuums, for example. However, when measured head to head the Alchemy's were a full 10-11 dB more sensitive than the Continuums and some other similar sized speakers that I have on hand. This is really a lot of difference when you hear it switched from one speaker to the other. 94dB is quite high for a small stand mounted speaker.

They don't have a lot of bass but are pretty good down to about 60Hz (where the ports are tuned). They were originally intended as surround speakers, but actually cross over very nicely to subwoofers in the 80-100 Hz range. So based on this, I can see a lot of people using these as front main speakers if they have subs.

The speaker does something else that is really quite rare. Even though I used very high acoustic slopes in the crossover between the two drivers, approximating a 4th order crossover at 2.5kHz, the acoustic summation is minimum phase through the crossover. This is possible because of the large offset of the tweeter's acoustic center behind the woofer combined with the steep slopes of the crossover. Although not "time aligned", there is no phase error in the combined acoustic response. This can be seen in the actual measured phase which is shown the graphs I sent to Erich.

This is why I called it the "Alchemy" - sometimes you can mix just the right things and come out with gold.

Jeff B.
post #6760 of 9844
Sounds like another great option for surrounds. Thanks Jeff.
post #6761 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

I thought if I ever opened a bar or brewpub, I'd want to get some large waveguides in matte white and then have an artist paint the waveguide and cabinet. Just something a little crazy looking.

Don't mess with the brew-pub, we are taking all of your beer out of CO anyways at this point biggrin.gif haha not really but New Belgium's addition will be a nice addition to "Brew City USA" wink.gif
post #6762 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Don't mess with the brew-pub, we are taking all of your beer out of CO anyways at this point biggrin.gif haha not really but New Belgium's addition will be a nice addition to "Brew City USA" wink.gif
Are they moving? News to me if so. There's 11 breweries in Fort Collins, where NB is located, and 130K people. That's a crazy amount of breweries for such a small population. A little live music works well in the brewpub, at least it does at Russian River.
post #6763 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post


Are they moving? News to me if so. There's 11 breweries in Fort Collins, where NB is located, and 130K people. That's a crazy amount of breweries for such a small population. A little live music works well in the brewpub, at least it does at Russian River.

Not moving, just expanding!! We also have Sierra Nevada building out in Hendersonville!! Awesome to me smile.gif Our city has about the same pop. and we have I would say about the same amount of breweries. :excellent:
post #6764 of 9844
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I was wondering about that too.

Me three
post #6765 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The only other CD I'm working on is for the 1.4" SEOS-24. I've got the CD samples and maybe 5 different diaphragms, but more are coming to test. That's going to be difficult to get something smooth from 600hz all the way up to 18khz. I did get an unusual one with a mylar surround that sounded pretty good, but it did have some significant dips here and there. No reason to do much testing until I get the SEOS-24 to model them with anyway.

Supertweeter maybe ?
post #6766 of 9844
Nah, just don't market it to < 22 year olds - or dogs
post #6767 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Not moving, just expanding!! We also have Sierra Nevada building out in Hendersonville!! Awesome to me smile.gif Our city has about the same pop. and we have I would say about the same amount of breweries. :excellent:

But you don't have Rocky Mountain Brewery and their Peach or Cherry beers.
post #6768 of 9844
A couple weeks ago there was some talk about the Fusion-12 Tempest and Alpha-12 Zephyr being used in small sealed 1 cuft enclosures.

I was going to put an option up on their product page, but I think that's going to add more confusion to guys that might not know what the box change will do. So I just put a note up saying to contact me for more information.

At this point I think I've got about every baffle option anyone could need from slot port, to sealed, to regular ports for virtually every design and any woofer we've discussed. That goes for the A&E 12" models, Malcolm, Big Mal, JBL, etc, etc.. The problem about some of these 'custom' baffles and boxes is that I don't think it's a good idea to post all of them on the site because at some point, the number of options just makes things too complex. Maybe I could put a 'generic' SEOS baffle on the site with options to pick your height, slot port or regular ports, and woofer. I'm not 100% sure just yet.

Basically, I'm going to focus on the standard speaker box designs, but the small runs of 'custom' stuff for the SEOS baffles can be done. Anyone that has a SEOS will have access to custom baffles around the waveguide.
post #6769 of 9844

How do we contact you if we want a baffle swap on one of the kits? Isn't there an option to leave a note when making the payment? Or this has to be done through email?

post #6770 of 9844
You folks couldn't be more wrong. The issue is trademark and that is determined by first use in commerce. By placing a trademarked name on a competing website, the infringer violated the trademark rights of the mark owner. Trademarks do not have to be registered to aquire rights. In fact priority in America is determined by first use.

You should also know that if the trademark owner did not tell the infringer to cease using the mark it would be abandoned. Once the infringer uses the mark (even if by innocent accident) the trademark owner must police the mark or lose it.

You can talk about a trademarked product or service because that's fair use. You just cannot take the name as your own because that causes market confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I was trying to do something nice to remember Zilch since it's been 2 years since he passed away. I was going to pay for the baffle, packing material, screws, gaskets, etc myself and include them for free to actually keep the price well under retail. Then I was going to put another $20 in on top of that to be donated.

It's just that simple. But nothing can be simple anymore, we all know that.

Of course, I do realize I could leave the speaker up and no laws are being broken at all. No one can tell me I can't donate money in memory of Zilch. No one can tell me I can't type his name either. I can do huge write ups showing every project Zilch did, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. But if they don't want his name or design being honored, it's simply not worth the trouble right now. We all know Zilch would have been thrilled to see any kit being even more 'Econo' than the original. Especially if money was being donated to a charity.

Of course they can say 'We don't know if Zilch would have liked that or not.' Well, they can't say he wouldn't either. Regardless, I don't need anyone's permission to donate to a charity in memory of another person. But I'm not going to spend the time to argue something so strange. It's hard to believe I even have to defend the idea at all. It is what it is.

There's really no reason to discuss it much anymore. I removed the photos and his name, and it can't be ordered. I highly doubt that's what Zilch would have wanted, but I tried. rolleyes.gif
post #6771 of 9844
Also another quick note. Something good happened this week.

A few friends stopped by 2 weeks ago after they got word of how things were looking at the shop. smile.gif We were talking about how cluttered things were getting, and how I just haven't had time to get it organized by myself in the past couple months.

So this week 2 of them came by every day when they could and really helped get things in shape. The place looks completely different. There were spare pallet racks moved in, drop ceilings completely ripped down, new insulation put up, shelves organized with packing material and boxes, and just a huge cleaning.

The new insulation wasn't planned, but the temperatures were in the teens this week and kind of cold inside. One of my friends said 'lets rip down the old junk and put up new insulation.' The whole room had really thin R13 in the ceiling when I got it. But there was about 30' x 35' of drop ceiling in half of the room as well, so that came down too. Long story short, 2 dumpsters full of old fiberglass and ceiling panels, and then probably 70 rolls of R-30 put up.

And you know, when all of the pallets of flat packs are moved into one area, it really does make me look a bit nuts. biggrin.gif
post #6772 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash R View Post

You folks couldn't be more wrong. The issue is trademark and that is determined by first use in commerce. By placing a trademarked name on a competing website, the infringer violated the trademark rights of the mark owner. Trademarks do not have to be registered to aquire rights. In fact priority in America is determined by first use.

You should also know that if the trademark owner did not tell the infringer to cease using the mark it would be abandoned. Once the infringer uses the mark (even if by innocent accident) the trademark owner must police the mark or lose it.

You can talk about a trademarked product or service because that's fair use. You just cannot take the name as your own because that causes market confusion.

What erich quoted does not indicate any trademark dispute... are you sure we "couldnt be any more wrong" rolleyes.gif

IF the person identified as a trademark owner and said he was infringing i think erich would have looked into the legality of it, not voiced it on here.
post #6773 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

They can be ordered.....but they aren't too cheap. I've got the cut out measurements on my home computer if needed.

The only issue with those front panels is that they can't be ordered in gloss anymore. Only a white matte finish. So they would have to be painted if you wanted a different color.

Would they take an autopaint without affecting the sound quality in any way or the integrity of the waveguide material? If not autopaint, would it take a finish like Cerakote? Is it an SEOS -15 waveguide? Would it accommodate an AE-TD15M woofer? What would be the cost? Does it replace a front baffle or does it need to be mounted onto a front baffle? Sorry, for all the questions?
post #6774 of 9844
This is SEOS-15 on a front panel, use any 15" woofer - here it is BC 15CL76 and tweeter is BMS 4550.
post #6775 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash R View Post

You folks couldn't be more wrong. The issue is trademark and that is determined by first use in commerce. By placing a trademarked name on a competing website, the infringer violated the trademark rights of the mark owner. Trademarks do not have to be registered to aquire rights. In fact priority in America is determined by first use.

You should also know that if the trademark owner did not tell the infringer to cease using the mark it would be abandoned. Once the infringer uses the mark (even if by innocent accident) the trademark owner must police the mark or lose it.

You can talk about a trademarked product or service because that's fair use. You just cannot take the name as your own because that causes market confusion.


You say the issue here is trademark and that it's determined by the first use in commerce.......I don't believe Zilch sold any speakers or any audio gear under the Zilch name. Zilch was a screen name. So in reality, Polk Audio could take the speaker design tomorrow and call it The Zilch and no one could ever use it but Polk?

Zilch clearly wanted others to build his speakers. That was the entire goal of the threads. There was no money being made on the one single model I listed and that was clearly shown with a price breakdown. Only a donation to a charity in memory of him.

I had his design on the site for one day. I hadn't even named it yet, but while typing it up, and not knowing what to call it, I simply put it as Zilch-10. I was told that same exact day to remove the name, so I did. Then I was told to remove the statement that said Zilch designed the speaker. I did that too.....even though I didn't have to. I was then told to remove 'Zilch' from the actual website address link that might appear in a web browser. I did that too, even though I didn't have to.

I had something written about donating in memory of Zilch.....I was told to take every mention of Zilch off the page. I did that too......even though I didn't have to. I can talk about a friend on a website....and use their name or nick name. Just because someone says they were given full rights to a name doesn't mean they were. And my guess is that it could be bad if they aren't being truthful about that. But I take them at their word without asking for proof, I doubt a company would.

This has gotten so incredibly stupid at this point when a huge DIY Community can't do something for our friend Zilch in his name without 'getting in trouble'. It's actually quite sad. But it's over and done with. A speaker was listed for 1 day with Zilch in the title because I wasn't sure what to name it yet. No money was going to be made, no one bought it, no money was donated to the cancer fund that helps fight a cancer that took his life. Yeah, someone did a great deed by stopping that.
Edited by Erich H - 1/24/13 at 11:41pm
post #6776 of 9844
double post
post #6777 of 9844
What a crazy world we live in where someone cant show support and respect for another person. Hang in there Erich! You are doing great things for the DIY community and showing great support for Zilch's legacy in a way that is true to how he would have done things.
post #6778 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

You say the issue here is trademark and that it's determined by the first use in commerce.......I don't believe Zilch sold any speakers or any audio gear under the Zilch name. Zilch was a screen name. So in reality, Polk Audio could take the speaker design tomorrow and call it The Zilch and no one could ever use it but Polk?

Zilch clearly wanted others to build his speakers. That was the entire goal of the threads. There was no money being made on the one single model I listed and that was clearly shown with a price breakdown. Only a donation to a charity in memory of him.

I had his design on the site for one day. I hadn't even named it yet, but while typing it up, and not knowing what to call it, I simply put it as Zilch-10. I was told that same exact day to remove the name, so I did. Then I was told to remove the statement that said Zilch designed the speaker. I did that too.....even though I didn't have to. I was then told to remove 'Zilch' from the actual website address link that might appear in a web browser. I did that too, even though I didn't have to.

I had something written about donating in memory of Zilch.....I was told to take every mention of Zilch off the page. I did that too......even though I didn't have to. I can talk about a friend on a website....and use their name or nick name. Just because someone says they were given full rights to a name doesn't mean they were. And my guess is that it could be bad if they aren't being truthful about that. But I take them at their word without asking for proof, I doubt a company would.

This has gotten so incredibly stupid at this point when a huge DIY Community can't do something for our friend Zilch in his name without 'getting in trouble'. It's actually quite sad. But it's over and done with. A speaker was listed for 1 day with Zilch in the title because I wasn't sure what to name it yet. No money was going to be made, no one bought it, no money was donated to the cancer fund that helps fight a cancer that took his life. Yeah, someone did a great deed by stopping that.

Isnt some guy selling zilch pcb boards? simply by selling zilch pcb boards he technically trademarked the name (according to ash R, i dont know if thats true)) and thats probably what Ash R was referring to. If you have a trademark then you cant let people infringe otherwise you lose it (i know this to be true).

is the guy selling zilch pcb boards the one emailing you?
post #6779 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"...the acoustic summation is minimum phase through the crossover."

jeff, congratulations on the alchemy 8.

does "minimum phase through the crossover" mean that if you flip the polarity, you will get a near perfect cancellation at the crossover point?

if so, shouldn't this be the case on all passive networks, or doesn't it work that way?
post #6780 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"...the acoustic summation is minimum phase through the crossover."

jeff, congratulations on the alchemy 8.

does "minimum phase through the crossover" mean that if you flip the polarity, you will get a near perfect cancellation at the crossover point?

if so, shouldn't this be the case on all passive networks, or doesn't it work that way?

No, that is not correct. That is not the way crossovers work.

An even-order in-phase crossover where both drivers are in phase with each other and you get a reverse null at the crossover is not typcially minimum phase unless delay is used in some way. In standard second and fourth order crossover design the summed acoustic phase does not match the input phase, as there is extra phase rotation through the crossover.

Normal minimum phase crossovers, on the other hand, will have summed acoustic phase that matches the input phase of the frequency response. This is the definition of minimum phase - that the phase response can be directly derived from the freqeuncy response with no excess phase present.

It usually takes special time alignment to achive this, and usually the two drivers are in what is called phase quadrature from each other, meaning they are 90 degrees apart in opposite directions so that the summation is 0 degrees, or 0 degrees of error, as you are still controlled by the frequency response and its phase. Crossovers in phase quadrature do not have a reverse null - if you flip the polarity the response will not change (or change very little).

I kept saying typcially, because the Alchemy doe not meet the typical description. It behave as an even-order crossover, but due to the delay in the tweeter the summed phase works out measre with no excess rotation. It is a special case.

I hope that answers the question OK.

Jeff
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