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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 256

post #7651 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Yes, please resend the information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batfink007 View Post

PM sent. Thanks Erich.
Simon

Hey Erich. I haven't heard from you yet. My 2 SI HT 18s have arrived and I'm really, really wanting to start building some capable LCRs to keep up with them ! tongue.gif

Any chance you can sort me out in the next few weeks? (our previous PMs refer (last on Jun 2, 2013 at 8:24 am)). The 2 SI HTs cost me $200 to ship using Fedex. I don't think it will cost as much as that to ship what I'm after, but I assure you that you won't get a "no thanks" from me even if it costs that. I'm not interested in wasting your time, but I am interested in building me some LCRs ! I'll happily pay for your time to go to the Post Office and IF, for some unknown reason, I was to say "no" to the price, I'll send you $100 for your trouble anyway.

Can you tell I'm desperate to get building?!

Thanks in advance
Simon
post #7652 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

just ship it to the border and pick it up. https://www.kinek.com/

storage central in buffalo only charges 5 bucks.

I'd still need to know the size of the "packages", simply to know what kind of car or truck to bring with me! smile.gif Or alternatively, whether I can send to my parents in Florida and just have them drive it back in their mini-van when they come back to Toronto.

In any event, if the added shipping cost on say a MTM and 2 Alchemy 8's was $200, I'd likely consider just having it shipped to me to avoid the hassle of driving a couple hours or so back and forth and crossing the border, getting back over, declaring what I bought (not sure if it would be considered "USA Made/Origin" or not given the speaker parts would not be from the US), etc. If it starts to get much north of $200, then it makes less sense.

Humorous how NAFTA has changed very little when it comes to getting things from CDA to the US and vice versa. rolleyes.gif
post #7653 of 9844
I actually had 2 SEOS zephyrs shipped to buffalo. I spent the weekend in the US from friday til sunday which allowed me to bring back 800 Canadian. The order came to 780 US and thankfully the dollar was low which came to 796 Canadian when I came back. This might not help, but I did take everything out of the boxes so they could pop the trunk and have a look if need be. They didn't and I cruised through the border no problem.

Everything fit in the trunk when I took it out of the boxes in my kia spectra (similar to a honda civic)
post #7654 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdemarco View Post

I actually had 2 SEOS zephyrs shipped to buffalo. I spent the weekend in the US from friday til sunday which allowed me to bring back 800 Canadian. The order came to 780 US and thankfully the dollar was low which came to 796 Canadian when I came back. This might not help, but I did take everything out of the boxes so they could pop the trunk and have a look if need be. They didn't and I cruised through the border no problem.

Everything fit in the trunk when I took it out of the boxes in my kia spectra (similar to a honda civic)
Smuggler!
post #7655 of 9844
haha... smuggling speaker kits. Awesome.



Edited by Rebel975 - 6/25/13 at 5:54pm
post #7656 of 9844
how exactly is legally bringing a speaker across the border smuggling? lol
post #7657 of 9844
Did you put the speakers in a balloon before you smuggled them in your "trunk"
post #7658 of 9844
I brought all mine across the border and saved a bunch in shipping. No duty, just tax but our crossing never charges duty it seems. At the time we only lived 30 minutes from the line so it made sense...the guys at the package receiving place laughed at the 1000lbs of brown boxes not all that long after they got a 1000lbs of JTR speakers for me.
post #7659 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

how exactly is legally bringing a speaker across the border smuggling? lol
We're kidding around.
post #7660 of 9844
haha but really, take everything out of the boxes before coming across the border. Eric does an amazing job of packing, but that also could lead to..."where are the drugs at?"
post #7661 of 9844
I got the tracking number for the plastic SEOS-15 samples. They should be here next week. I'll test them, and give the approval for production. Production is suppose to take about 2 weeks, and then about 30 days to get everything. It took longer to get the injection mold done for this model versus the SEOS-12. I'm not sure if it's because of the size difference or not.
post #7662 of 9844
I think theres a lot of quite folks who have been waiting for these.
post #7663 of 9844
Nice. Can't wait.
post #7664 of 9844
Possible HIGH END compression driver coming.

I wanted to update this thread about a CD I've been working on and needed to get some opinions. Over the past couple years I've been ordering and testing compression drivers and compression driver parts. I probably have 40+ different models and even more parts that I work with. Basically I interchange things, ask for different diaphragms to fit different bases, change out foam, phase plugs etc. I've heard titanium diaphragms, mylar, polyimide, phenolic, coated, etc from Celestion, BMS, B&C, JBL, and 18-Sound.

There was a combination that I was working on last year but put it aside when I got busy with all the SEOS-12 projects. The CD itself looked really nice, and had some great features. It's response wasn't bad, but had a titanium diaphragm and I prefer something different. I asked the manufacturer that makes the diaphragms for the DNA-360 to send me some different parts. Last week I finally got back to this project and I might have something that truly stands out. But possibly too expensive to mess with.

I test every single CD before they're shipped out. I've heard the typical 'werp, werp' test tone hundreds of times, so it's pretty easy for me to hear differences in models and brands and also pick out any that don't sound quite right. The B&C DE250, DNA-360, and BMS-4550 all sound great and test great. They're incredibly similar, and nearly identical when a crossover network is applied to each one to level them all out.

So a few days ago I start messing with this nice looking model again. It's the DNA top of the line loaded edition. biggrin.gif Neodymium magnets, aluminum phase plug, copper shorting ring, full gaskets outside, full gaskets inside to seal everything up. I drop in the new poly diaphragms and one really stood out. I could definitely hear a difference in this model compared to the other CD's. It has that strong sound that I've heard in some 18 Sound drivers using titanium, but smooth and not fatiguing. The low end is great, the high end is really good for a CD like this. Actually, the high end is better than any I've seen. I'll post some response curves later tonight if I have time.

The problem is going to boil down to the price of getting all the parts, so I'm not sure it's worth pursuing or not. Neo magnets, aluminum phase plugs, copper rings, and different parts coming from different manufacturers. I think they would add up to being a decent amount over $100, likely over $125. Shipping is expensive from other countries, and when they come in different packages or pallets, that price has to be divided over a fairly small number of pieces. B&C has a similar neo magnet model that's already priced fairly good, but uses a titanium diaphragm, different terminals, and a back plate with a different internal volume. The overall set up is a bit different too.

Has anyone seen another brand or model like this:




Here it is next to the DNA-360




Here's the bottom:





Here's the inside showing all the goodies:

post #7665 of 9844
I don't think $100-200 for a CD is really all that highend (for price). Still cheaper than the 2way BMS + 24 SOES (or buying a JTR 212 that uses the BMS).
post #7666 of 9844
Erich, that's an exciting development. Moar info please.
post #7667 of 9844
Smaller than the 360? What's the response look like?
post #7668 of 9844
Looks a little like the rear end of this one,

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=299-190
post #7669 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaujewel View Post

Looks a little like the rear end of this one,

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=299-190

No it's definitely not that model, I have one of those. biggrin.gif

The cover plate is quite a bit different with a different number of screws. The inner chamber isn't the same size, plus the neo magnets are set up different, along with the mounting holes. It also has a titanium diaphragm.

That model does sound nice, but can't be crossed as low as the DE250 (or similar models). I've got a response curve for it somewhere.
post #7670 of 9844
Erich, what's the exit angle on it?
post #7671 of 9844
Would this high end compression driver just be an upgrade option when ordering a SEOS kit, or would it require that you create entirely new kits? I just want to make sure that this Definimax 4012ho that I bought from Jeff Bagby won't go to waste - ie, if you come out with a "super SEOS" kit that uses this upgraded compression driver and some even better woofer.

So, they'd be ~$50 more than a DNA-360? Can we see some graphs/other info (sensitivity/power handling/etc.)? Does it sound "that" much better than a DNA-360?
post #7672 of 9844
I'll have to check the exit angles. I've had the actual driver for about a year, but haven't really started messing with it until recently because I knew it was fairly expensive. The DNA-360 certainly works well for all of these designs, so there really wasn't much reason for me to look too much more. If I did get some of these made up, maybe they could only be used on the Alpha models. But I'm not sure how much difference they would really make in the end. Once a crossover is in place, things are pretty smooth with any of these nicer models. This new one does stand out for some reason though. But honestly, I'd have to put it up against the B&C neo models to compare. If the B&C neo happens to test fairly close (or sound close), then it probably isn't worth spending the extra money on this new model. Then again, this one does look nicer!

Here's some curves with the SEOS-15. The black line is the new CD (let's call it 'Fully Loaded' right now) biggrin.gif, blue is the B&C DE250, red is the BMS-4550. I no longer have a BMS 4550 to test, so the measurements of the BMS are on the SEOS-12. That's why it looks like it drops off sooner under 1000hz, it would normally be right there with the other 2. But honestly, I'm mostly looking at stuff above 1000hz for this anyway.


Here's the CD by itself:




Here it is with the B&C DE250. DE250 is in blue:




Here it is with the BMS 4550. BMS is red:




All three together:





I'll get the DNA-360 up on there later. It's flatter than the B&C and does extend higher. The new FL model sounds very good. Some of that might be because of it's flat response right out of the gate. Some of it might be the shorting ring. Some of it might be the neo magnets giving a shorter run from the diaphragm through the throat. Some of that might be the really nice phase plug. Or it could just be all of them added together making it a 'Fully Loaded' model. biggrin.gif
Edited by Erich H - 7/7/13 at 8:59pm
post #7673 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

Would this high end compression driver just be an upgrade option when ordering a SEOS kit, or would it require that you create entirely new kits? I just want to make sure that this Definimax 4012ho that I bought from Jeff Bagby won't go to waste - ie, if you come out with a "super SEOS" kit that uses this upgraded compression driver and some even better woofer.

So, they'd be ~$50 more than a DNA-360? Can we see some graphs/other info (sensitivity/power handling/etc.)? Does it sound "that" much better than a DNA-360?


I have no idea what the end price would be right now, or if it will ever get done.

The BMS, B&C, and DNA are extremely good models and they all sound really really good. That's why they're used by so many companies. The DNA is the flattest of the 3 and comes so close to this new model, that it's not a huge difference after the crossover. There certainly would be no need to upgrade to this model if the design used any of those first 3 CD's.

As Jeff has mentioned a couple times, the Definimax and the Delta Pro are extremely close. Eventually I will likely make the Fusion-12 have the standard Delta option, or the Definimax upgrade option.

There are no internal changes coming to the current speakers, they're already very good. The Alpha line will be finished off eventually though. My thought was to possibly use the DNA-350 for the Karma series, the DNA-360 for the Fusion series, and then possibly use this new driver for the Alpha series. But the Definimax model you have won't change at all.

It would make some sense to have this new driver used with the Alpha's because most new woofers in the Alpha series will be quite expensive. Personally I would stick with the Fusion series because I know how good they are for the price. The Alpha line will be for people that just really want that top model and don't mind the extra cost. I'm not really one of those people, but I fully understand why there's a need in audio. Whether the cost difference is worth it or not is up to that person.

I can say that the Karma line and Fusion line are pretty much complete. No changes are needed. The Alpha line will be getting a 15" woofer with the 15" SEOS. There will eventually be an Alpha-10, and the Alpha-12 will likely be changed up. But there's no need to wait, or second guess your choice because the Alpha line will quite a bit more expensive. And I can assure you, there are no bad models listed. Anything that doesn't test great for it's price point doesn't get posted. There have been some that didn't make the cut. If it's listed, it's really good for the budget you have. The component prices are the main differences between each series. Just like Polk or JBL would do. smile.gif
post #7674 of 9844
Thanks, that is reassuring. I'll stick to my earlier decision of wanting the Alpha-12 Zephyr's. smile.gif
post #7675 of 9844
Big news. The plastic samples have arrived and I'll get photos up today.

This should pretty much round out this whole SEOS project.
post #7676 of 9844
Looking forward to seeing these.
post #7677 of 9844
Eh... it doesnt sound like 150$ would be too much for this new driver even.
post #7678 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa View Post

Eh... it doesnt sound like 150$ would be too much for this new driver even.

I agree when you are going into a project like this you only want to do it once. Build the best possible speaker and be done. However, I did pick up 3 of the PE Celeston closeout drivers because of the Unobtanium factor that will surely occur soon.

Thanks,
Robert
post #7679 of 9844
Hello everybody, my name is Roland and I live in the (in)famous city of Amsterdam.

I have followed the SEOS project with great interest, although I would certainly not consider myself a DIY speakerbuilder. Not yet...
Erich and all the other contributors have put a lot of effort in this and with great results. Compliments!

When I saw the picture of this unindentified driver I decided to google a little and I think I found a driver that closely resembles the one on Erich's pics.



A search for the supposed brand Soundsing didn't yield much, but I found out there's a 3" version of this driver:




I also stumbled upon an 8 incher that appears to be a rather nice looking B&C clone:






If I find more info I'll let you guys know.
post #7680 of 9844
I was hoping to find a well known brand that made them at one point, or where I could order one for comparisons. The back plate on the one you posted is similar, unfortunately those compression drivers don't use neo magnets. So the guts would likely be completely different as well.

I'd be too worried dealing with those 'companies' on that site. They're notorious for taking your money and not delivering anything, or something completely different. I had a bad issue once, tried again and almost had another really bad experience. But a friend of mine knows someone in China and he made some phone calls that saved the day.

Many of those sites just post random photos that they've taken from other people or companies. They aren't real and those products might not even exist anymore. And I've learned that even if you get a nice sample, you have no idea what you might get at any time after that. It's way too risky for me anymore.

Luckily my friend was able to help me find manufactures that make the different parts of the end product so you can 'build your own' if you can get the right parts. Most of the time the ones that are ready to order are not very good, or quality control is really bad. And that's only if you can find someone that you can trust in the first place. And even then, it's still a risky deal.
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