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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 269

post #8041 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post

I have limited size for my sourrounds in my columns so a TM of either of these would intrest me. What would the overall size be?



The MTM's will be about 20”h x 8”w x 12”d (using all 3/4") or 11" deep (1/2" is used for the box baffle 3/4")
While the TM's will be 13" x 8" x 11" (all 3/4") or 10" deep (1/2" box, 3/4" baffle).

The Fusion-6's are ported, my box in the photo has a slot port but none of the plastic slot ports Erich found would have worked well so the height was shrunk a little and depth increased with a round port out the back. They can be used without a port, however you loose quite a bit of output between 60-100 Hz.

The Karma-6's are sealed, same size enclosure.

I am considering designing a shallow mount enclosure for both of them and or angled surround enclosure for the Fusion-6 TM (like the MTG-06-OWS)
post #8042 of 9857
why would you not want a horn or waveguide for surround ? To localized ???
post #8043 of 9857
Smaller so it fits better, and very tight center to center spacing.

I do wonder about beaming though, like LTD02 mentioned. I've always wondered how the Pi speaker looks off axis using that dome. I've never used a flush mounted dome with anything bigger than a 5.25" woofer, so I can't really say for sure how it would look.
post #8044 of 9857
oooooo, angled speakers coming? I forget we had talked about that months ago. looks like I will be waiting till that comes out biggrin.gif
post #8045 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/279063/width/350/height/700

The MTM's will be about 20”h x 8”w x 12”d (using all 3/4") or 11" deep (1/2" is used for the box baffle 3/4")
While the TM's will be 13" x 8" x 11" (all 3/4") or 10" deep (1/2" box, 3/4" baffle).

The Fusion-6's are ported, my box in the photo has a slot port but none of the plastic slot ports Erich found would have worked well so the height was shrunk a little and depth increased with a round port out the back. They can be used without a port, however you loose quite a bit of output between 60-100 Hz.

The Karma-6's are sealed, same size enclosure.

I am considering designing a shallow mount enclosure for both of them and or angled surround enclosure for the Fusion-6 TM (like the MTG-06-OWS)

in reguards to that port why not just have the kit made like yours and not use the plastic? I assume you just have a typical shelf in there for the top of the port, it should not be that hard or expensive to have the CNC make those cuts and include annother piece of MDF for the port (assuming they would be flatpacked)
post #8046 of 9857
Thread Starter 
"why would you not want a horn or waveguide for surround ? To localized ???"

personal preference.

some folks like strict directed surround as it can synthetically place an object anywhere around the room.

others like the surround sound to be more of an ambience effect.

in some sense, it is only possible to do surround sound right for one seat in the house, as that seat is the only place where the timing can be accurate from all the channels simultaneously. everything away from that seat is a compromise and there are lots of different methods for dealing with that compromise.

for a while thx was specifying dipole surrounds for home environments like this

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/feature-article-thx-1-2006-part-3.html

not sure if they still are.
post #8047 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

in reguards to that port why not just have the kit made like yours and not use the plastic? I assume you just have a typical shelf in there for the top of the port, it should not be that hard or expensive to have the CNC make those cuts and include annother piece of MDF for the port (assuming they would be flatpacked)

Slot porting out the back isn't a problem. But out the front isn't so easy with the flat packs. If you think about how they go together with everything sliding into grooves on the back panel.....you'll see that getting a front slot port to line up properly isn't quite as easy.
post #8048 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post



The Fusion-6's are ported, my box in the photo has a slot port but none of the plastic slot ports Erich found would have worked well so the height was shrunk a little and depth increased with a round port out the back. They can be used without a port, however you loose quite a bit of output between 60-100 Hz.

I think the little plastic slot ports I found might still work okay on the TM if you're tuning around 65hz or so.
post #8049 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

***in some sense, it is only possible to do surround sound right for one seat in the house, as that seat is the only place where the timing can be accurate from all the channels simultaneously. everything away from that seat is a compromise and there are lots of different methods for dealing with that compromise.

Toole's discussion of that in Sound Reproduction is very interesting. He suggests that a CBT might be the best option for surround.

I've never had good results except with concentric drivers firing up, or bidirectional out-of-phase speakers.
post #8050 of 9857
Thread Starter 
i can see how that could help with providing equal amplitudes, but not sure that there is any way around the timing...
post #8051 of 9857
amplitudes are likely much more easily recognzied by our ears than timing cues. You're right, there's only one true sweet spot, but the difference between the sweet spot and other spots need not be noticible.
post #8052 of 9857
Thread Starter 
yeah, i was just being a little difficult or maybe it was all those marty subs. i think i misread "best option" as "best period". :-)
post #8053 of 9857
I just finished building a pair of Tempests and Alchemy MTM. Really like MTM but not sure about Tempest. They seem to be lacking bass. Ran audyssey and it set xover for Tempest to 150hz. Is it expected? How long does it take for these drivers to break-in?
post #8054 of 9857

Something is definitely wrong if its crossing over at 150hz. Make sure there are no air leaks.

post #8055 of 9857
How do I do that?
post #8056 of 9857
I'd first double check your wiring. One thing the Tempest does well is bass kick.
post #8057 of 9857
I double checked everything before I put screws in. Why do you think it is wring? What should I be looking for? I need to get back my mic and take some measurements tomorrow.
post #8058 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by amo76 View Post

How do I do that?

 

I'm not sure if there is a proper way to test for air leaks in a ported enclosure but I think you could plug up the ports and play some music. See if you can feel any air coming out of the woofer, waveguide, or screws. Did you build the crossover yourself or was it pre-assembled? A picture of the crossover could help.

post #8059 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by amo76 View Post

I double checked everything before I put screws in. Why do you think it is wring? What should I be looking for? I need to get back my mic and take some measurements tomorrow.
Did you set the crossover to 60-80hz and still have little base ? Can't rely on audyssey always to set it right
post #8060 of 9857
Ya, not sure you can rely on audessay.

I'd do a battery check to make sure polarity is good. Just touch a battery to the terminals to see if the woofer cone moves out.
post #8061 of 9857
I never had problems with audessey setting crossover incorrectly before. It usually sets it lower or close to specs.
Do I need to use 9 volt battery for polarity check? I assume that I need to connect it to the speaker's binding posts, right?
Since nobody commented about the drivers break-in, I gather it shouldn't be causing this issue.

EDIT: I got pre-assembled crossovers.
post #8062 of 9857
Breakin will very very slightly change the bass. Not like this though.

Any battery will do. Just tap it to the binding posts and watch the woofer at an angle. It'll pop out quickly. Or pop in. If it goes in then its out of polarity. Or the battery is hooked up wrong.
post #8063 of 9857
I did the polarity test and woofers popped out on all three speakers. REW measurements are next.
post #8064 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by amo76 View Post

I did the polarity test and woofers popped out on all three speakers. REW measurements are next.
So playing full range the tempest are still bass shy ?
post #8065 of 9857
How far are they from the back wall? They're ported, not sealed, correct?
post #8066 of 9857
They are ported. They are probably 20-30 inches away from the back and side walls. At this point I think they need a sub to play full range but they blend much better with it than my klipsch icon wf-35 did.
post #8067 of 9857
Measuring from the front baffle, 20-30 inches? Can you move them closer to the back wall?

Audyssey recommended an unusually high crossover point for my speakers also(DIY), lowering it to 120hz sounded better and also prevented any localization of the subwoofers.
post #8068 of 9857

I built my Tempests in a small sealed enclosure and Audyssey sets the crossover to 40hz. Obviously I'm getting some room gain but the ported version -3db point is 37hz so Audyssey should set the crossover around there.

post #8069 of 9857
Also: Which version of Audyssey?

IDK, correct polarity, prebuilt crossovers, this sounds like something other than speakers.

Even with a massive leak they should work lower than that... With a leak that big you would know, see, and hear it.

My bets on room, settings, or signal chain.

For a sanity check i keep a two channel amp around to measure speakers direct. Sometimes all those variables: crossover, processing, EQ in AVRs muddies the water. Its good to see a unaltered signal on the speaker and take processing out the equation sometimes.
post #8070 of 9857
Same amount of distance from both the side walls and front wall will create a massive null. Also, i believe audyssey likes to adjust speakers to the bright side, giving an impression of less bass.
How much toe in are you using on the speakers?
Edited by eXa - 9/22/13 at 5:32pm
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