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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 281

post #8401 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

My guess is that anyone willing to order a Reference Line model custom made from Corian, wouldn't be too worried about the extra shipping costs. biggrin.gif

The 1/2" Corian weighed close to double that of Baltic birch. 3/4" would be the same way, and mdf weighs pretty close to Baltic.

The Fusion-12 cabinet is about 42lbs. So a rough guess would put the Corian around 75lbs. A tower speaker would likely be 150lbs. But they'd be shipped by pallet either way, so it would only be a few hundred dollars to ship a pair.......or seven.

Hmm, pallet, lots of flatpacks on the bottom, crate full of drivers, CD's, X-over parts, and top it off with a few SEOS's on top,

Well, There goes the neighborhood, or Christmas bonus, or, well both. smile.gif

And just when I thought I had talked myself back to 2.0 from 7.2 (with my sonosubs)
Though the surround set would cost insanely too much to do all Corian. A Pair, ... or possibly even LCR in that material, and then 4 more for surrounds.
I have been reading about crazy builds again. I couldn't possibly imagine an LCR that is 4x15's with 20" SEOS's on the top being in any "Room" That would have to be in something huge, like a theater.

Thinking about what should be 2 different projects at once. I probably should wait to finish out the surrounds and center as a separate build, and do the stereo pair first.

I just went and took another look at the color options. There is a "Translucent" set of colors, meant to be back lit with something like an LED.
Now, that sounds like something I would be happy mounting a big pretty SEOS waveguide to.

For you guys into the more conventional, yet still clean and refined look there is a set of "Deep Color" choices that when buffed and polished would look like those piano black finishes I've seen people here do.
(I linked the color choices in a post above)

Erich, would this actually be a possibility?
post #8402 of 9857
Are you talking about Corian, or Plexiglass? I know a company about 30 miles from me that works with Plexiglass (and similar materials), but getting something thick enough would be more expensive than Corian.
post #8403 of 9857
Thick plexiglass is strong, stronger and more durable than security glass, but I don't know how it handles resonances.
post #8404 of 9857
Either one. I was just using Plexiglass as a baseline idea. I know that it would be pricy, especially to get it the right thickness.

I have just always wanted to try a more interesting material. If the corian is cheaper, and will work then I'll go with that.
post #8405 of 9857
Erich,

Did AudioKinesis introduce a new floorstanding speaker at RMAF 2013 using the SEOS waveguide? (it sure looks like it) BTW, is this also along the lines of what you were thinking when you mentioned coming out with a floorstanding speaker?

Here is a link to the PartTimeAudiophile RMAF 2013 review: http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/15/rmaf-2013-audiokinesis-james-romeyn/



CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

Sure likes an SEOS waveguide to me... and if it is then it is only further validation of design as the AudioKinesis speakers made the RMAF 2013 Best of Show list by Tyson & Pez - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120535.0

... and one of the things they mentioned is that the speakers sounded great WITHOUT any room treatment.
Edited by avpassion - 10/18/13 at 12:16pm
post #8406 of 9857
Yes... AudioKinesis is using the SEOS 12 in their latest speaker.

Quote:
The main speaker (aka Jazz Module 2.0) will have a new woofer, new waveguide, and new compression driver. I'm not ready to release the identity of the woofer and compression driver, but will say that the waveguide is a slightly modified SEOS 12. Because the SEOS doesn't match the woofer's pattern in the vertical plane, we'll also have a rear-firing tweeter adding some extra reverberant energy to the mix to restore the proper spectral balance to the reverberant field when that speaker is used as a stand alone (Jazz Module 2.0 mode).

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118897.msg1251526#msg1251526
post #8407 of 9857
That's odd. Looks bang on identical to the injection mold Erich purchased. Even the same sheen on the plastic. But Erich funded the injection mould. Hopefully everything is kosher there. Nice looking speaker. Though I'm not sure the rear firing tweeter is all that useful. I've never found them to make sense.
Edited by tuxedocivic - 10/18/13 at 1:29pm
post #8408 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

That's odd. Looks band on identical to the injection mold Erich purchased. Even the same sheen on the plastic. But Erich funded the injection mould. Hopefully everything is kosher there. Nice looking speaker. Though I'm not sure the rear firing tweeter is all that useful. I've never found them to make sense.

Could Duke's remarks be an awkward attempt at market spin?? Sure looks like a stock SEOS 12 to me.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #8409 of 9857
I do spend some time over on Audio Circle and have posted about the SEOS kits several times. Since Duke is using the SEOS for a commercial design it does seem like it would be fair if he was charged a premium for the WG so to help Erich with the injection mold, development costs and a little profit to boot.

Duke has mentioned that he modified the SEOS 12 entry angle with some sort of machine tool of to accommodate a specific compression driver.

BTW and to be fair, Duke has complimented the SEOS project and implied that he couldn't compete with Erich and company for entry level systems. In general he's directing his sales at a different market sector.
Edited by rajacat - 10/18/13 at 1:41pm
post #8410 of 9857
It could very well be my eyes playing tricks, but it looks like the throat was modified/shortened. I could be wrong though.
post #8411 of 9857
Yes, that's the SEOS-12 in gloss. Duke and I have discussed this through emails. He really liked the way they tested and told me he would use them in his new speakers. If I recall, he said he was going to sand down the throat angle to match the compression driver he was using. That's pretty easy to do.


This would have been a great opportunity for the SEOS to get some big time recognition. Not sure why it wasn't mentioned, but it would be great if he let's people know the waveguide was used. He's a good guy, so I'm sure he'll mention it.

I did read where they talked about the 'LCS' part of the speaker.

"The new Dream Maker "LCS" suffix stands for "Late Ceiling Splash." Over the next few weeks we'll slowly reveal information about LCS' new and unique radiation pattern unlike anything currently available."

He wasn't the one that actually said that, but I hope he does give some credit to all the work this community put towards the SEOS. We should all be glad he's using it because it does give more credit to the SEOS design. I'm sure he'll mention it at some point.
Edited by Erich H - 10/18/13 at 3:36pm
post #8412 of 9857
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

He wasn't the one that actually said that, but I hope he does give some credit to all the work this community put towards the SEOS. We should all be glad he's using it because it does give more credit to the SEOS design. I'm sure he'll mention it at some point.

i wouldn't worry about it. i'm sure the word will get around about what he is using and where it came from.
post #8413 of 9857
It's interesting reading through some of the threads on Duke's Audio Circle forum. We might glean some ideas from these discussions which could be useful for the SEOS Concept Mockup. Perhaps a thread should be started for a STATEMENT SEOS design using the best possible components but without resorting to stupid $$$$.

I'm curious what's in that "ceiling splash" box confused.gif. Could a SEOS 8 directed vertically perform the same function by adding the ambiance reflections?
post #8414 of 9857
Thread Starter 
ceiling splash is nothing new. it used to be called ceiling reflection.

the idea is that off axis the woofer beams. off axis the horn beams. if you match the pattern control in the vertical axis of the woofer to the horn, you get a cancellation. that cancellation reduces the amount of reflected energy off the ceiling.
post #8415 of 9857
Thread Starter 
wayne discusses this point on or around page 12 of this document:

http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf
post #8416 of 9857
Hey guys keep in mind that a lot of testing has gone into determining that the phenolic resins are ideal for speaker building.

I found this post from someone who works with a company that makes the material. It might be worth a phone call.


"I work for a Phenolic Manufacturer. We've been producing Phenolic products for over 20 years and are very experienced with this material. I can provide materials for anyone who is interested in building a phenolic speaker box. If you want more information you can send me a message. Also check out our website www.specritedesigns.com "
post #8417 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

ceiling splash is nothing new. it used to be called ceiling reflection.

Seems the "Late Ceiling Splash" is actually referring to something a bit different -- like rajacat was alluding to, it's a distinct "effects" speaker laid down behind the main, effectively delayed 10ms or so, and fired directly upwards into the ceiling. You can see it on the floor in avpassion's post.
post #8418 of 9857
Thread Starter 
"Seems the "Late Ceiling Splash" is actually referring to something a bit different -- like rajacat was alluding to, it's a distinct "effects" speaker laid down behind the main, effectively delayed 10ms or so, and fired directly upwards into the ceiling. You can see it on the floor in avpassion's post."

ah! thanks for clearing that up.

it appears that he is trying to recreate some of the experience of the linkwitz orion speakers and their rear firing tweeter arrangement, BUT without just putting a second seos on the backside of the speaker and pulling it forward way out into the room.

somebody experimented with back-to-back waveguides on htguide a long time ago with pretty good results.
post #8419 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT cOz View Post

Hey guys keep in mind that a lot of testing has gone into determining that the phenolic resins are ideal for speaker building.

I found this post from someone who works with a company that makes the material. It might be worth a phone call.


"I work for a Phenolic Manufacturer. We've been producing Phenolic products for over 20 years and are very experienced with this material. I can provide materials for anyone who is interested in building a phenolic speaker box. If you want more information you can send me a message. Also check out our website www.specritedesigns.com "


I thought that material was very expensive, maybe I'm wrong. Do you know if they ship out any samples or have a price list for sheets?
post #8420 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Seems the "Late Ceiling Splash" is actually referring to something a bit different -- like rajacat was alluding to, it's a distinct "effects" speaker laid down behind the main, effectively delayed 10ms or so, and fired directly upwards into the ceiling. You can see it on the floor in avpassion's post."

ah! thanks for clearing that up.

it appears that he is trying to recreate some of the experience of the linkwitz orion speakers and their rear firing tweeter arrangement, BUT without just putting a second seos on the backside of the speaker and pulling it forward way out into the room.

somebody experimented with back-to-back waveguides on htguide a long time ago with pretty good results.

Duke's Dreamakers are bipolar waveguide speakers.
http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_dream-maker.html
post #8421 of 9857
Thread Starter 
that's funny. that is the same dds eng90 waveguide the guys on htguide were experimenting with. :-)
post #8422 of 9857
The one on the back of the new speaker is the Denovo DW-62s.
post #8423 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The one on the back of the new speaker is the Denovo DW-62s.
Yes, which is very similar to the infamous Pyle waveguide that PE used to sell, and has been modded by Zaph and many others to be used with dome tweeters.
post #8424 of 9857
Yeah, I'm doubting the SEOS will ever actually be mentioned by name. The fact they went with "LCS technology" is a better way to let you know they have no intention of mentioning it in their marketing.
Edited by bhazard - 10/21/13 at 12:55pm
post #8425 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Yeah, I'm doubting the SEOS will ever actually be mentioned by name. The fact they went with "LCS technology" is a better way to let you know they have no intention of mentioning it in their marketing.

LCS also implements the speaker that is in the rear firing upward mimic reflections later than 10 miliseconds or something like that, not just the directivity.
post #8426 of 9857
I'm kinda irked that it almost looks exactly like my tower speaker, using a 10" woofer instead of 12", uses MDF and Veneer all around instead of Birch (except for the extra wood baffle option), for the low price of $5,000 /pair. It costs less than 20% of that in retail part prices to build, not even wholesale part prices.

The upward firing speaker is intriguing, but is it meant to be used as the front height speaker on the floor, or by sharing power with the Front L+R? Seems like shared power. the spacing also seems awkward. Not much WAF when your tower extends further into the room, with a floor speaker behind it.

I think it really shows how capable these kits are, and how awesome speakers like the Noesis and Catalysts are for the price.
Edited by bhazard - 10/21/13 at 1:35pm
post #8427 of 9857
Thread Starter 
"I'm kinda irked..."

if you helped inspire a design why be irked?

if you'd like to get into the business of schlepping speakers all over the country to trade shows and going through all the hassle of answering 10,000 questions from people who will never buy anything, answering emails, phone calls, and instant messages, all on the hope of selling one set for $5k, the market is wide open. have at it! :-)
post #8428 of 9857
Parts cost to MSRP is usually 1-5 so that price tag is all that out there.
post #8429 of 9857
I'm pretty sure the AudioKinesis is intended primarily as a fairly full range 2-channel stereo speaker, so the effects speaker modules would also run off the LR signals. Not a startlingly original idea all in all, but intriguing yes, especially with controlled directivity main speakers. Sort of a best of both worlds.

Google "haas effect" for more info on the psychoacoustics at the root. Same thinking as behind LEDE room design. Early reflections = bad, but folks tend to prefer a certain amount of ambient reflection so bring them in from a distance or after some means of delay.

I agree, the pricing is not different from other products in this sector. Neither is the tendency to leave out the particulars of "off the shelf" components in favor of hinting that everything is proprietary and custom and bespoke and magic. biggrin.gif
post #8430 of 9857
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I'm kinda irked..."

if you helped inspire a design why be irked?

if you'd like to get into the business of schlepping speakers all over the country to trade shows and going through all the hassle of answering 10,000 questions from people who will never buy anything, answering emails, phone calls, and instant messages, all on the hope of selling one set for $5k, the market is wide open. have at it! :-)

+1
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